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DEATH. What's your personal notion?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by The Oracle, Dec 16, 2007.

  1. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Probably the best way would be to get filthy rich and fund a library to host 'The Lunchboy Collection'

  2. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    I'm not sharing! :omg:

    It's my collection. Mine. Mine. Mine! :angry:

    I'm also worried about coming back as a chick and not digging jazz fusion anymore. :melodramatic: :D
  3. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Agreed, actually, if you thought you could come back, why would you ever persist in a game where you had clearly lost your freedoms, or suffered a blow that would tag you throughout your life? The only time I'd hang around is if there were others depending on me who would take it as an ARCx for me to leave. At present, what holds me here is my work, and my children, even though they're disconnected from me right now, and the fact that I am NOT certain I can come back and try again.
  4. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm not worried about it all. It takes a second. One minute you have a life and the next you do not.

    I am thinking about all the madness and fixed ideas that come about as I recently had a relative pass on and the drama about it was just absurd. She was diagnosed with cancer and told she had about two months to live. Instead of going home and dying peacefully in bed her kids went in to an uproar, carted her off to the Phillipines for some promised possible cure (not approved by the FDA here). She spent her last six weeks full of drugs and radiation therapy and all sorts of torture in a strange land to the tune of 200,000.00 because her family decided she should "fight it". I could understand if she was five years old but she was almost seventy.

    By the time all that madness passed the family was so burnt out from relocating to the Phillipines for a month and dragging the body back, I had to handle everything connected with the funeral arrangments.

    It just made me attuned to the protest and non confront about the issue.

    Then they took out a full page ad in the newspaper about how she had gone to heaven to join her parents (the last people she would want to see).

    I mean, there is a lot of madness connected to this issue for people. I should say, in this culture.

  5. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm not sure everybody can just "come back".

    Per the laws of ARC you have to occupy the same space with someone else (in the womb).

    I am pretty certain you can come back if somebody loves you.

  6. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Without evidence that we come back, I would have to agree that "fighting it" is a good idea, so long as quality of life is tolerable or better. In other words, I hedge my bets. While it *might* be true (there are anecdotal reports of people having come back), there is no objective evidence that this is the case, and without that, I'm a fighter.
  7. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Amen, as we used to say in Egypt.

    My dad was an MD. He had several strokes, and wound up at home, in bed for his last years. He signed a medical directive that there would be NO life support or outside intervention in the case of a medical emergency. He passed in his own bed one late Feb. evening, as he wished.

    It is something people should think about and plan for. He had his wishes laid out in re: burial plot, etc. Me, creamate the body and scatter the ashes. I'd rather not have any stuck attention on it.
  8. beyond_horizons

    beyond_horizons Patron Meritorious

    Back in the early 90's I was reading Redfields's 'Celestine Prophecy' a fictional tale about his 9 insights. That one had a magical impact even though it was fiction.

    At one point, I had the notion that my mother and father didn’t really want me. I was the youngest of three siblings. It was something about the way they interacted together and individually towards me while I was growing up. Dad was always distant and mom was a typical Italian worry wart who loved to hate all the other relatives. :D Later after dad passed on she came to live with us.

    I asked her one day, if I was planned or if I was an accident. She confided that I was an accident. :D

    They tolerated me rather than loved me. It appears as though all I wanted was to hitch a ride at the time and they just happened to appear. :D
  9. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    For whatever reasons, I don't want to be creamated. I'm going with a coffin. Just because I've left the body, won't mean everyone else has. I don't want to take the chance of burning someone out of a home. The forces left with me have been helpful.

    Last edited: Dec 16, 2007
  10. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Both of my children were "accidents", although there weren't any extreme measures taken to prevent them. This didn't mean they were unloved, or merely tolerated. It did mean an unwanted change in my life, and perhaps in my wife's life, but not something which we blamed the child for. There's a significant difference between not wanting a child, and not wanting a specific child. When my children were born, I was very happy, and I love them very much, regardless of the difficulties having children brought to me or my marriage.
  11. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    I do believe in immortality, but, not in 'personal immortality'. I see 'myself' as like a set of favorite clothes; maybe they'll wander around seperately; maybe be picked up by somebody else sometime, but, I won't be wearing them.

    I'll still be 'around', although it might not be 'somewhere' or sometime, but, I won't be Joe Lynn or Zinjifar, and, why would I want to be?

    'You can't take it with you' applies to more than life's plunder.
    You can't even take *you* with you :)

  12. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    All of my mother's children were "accidents" and unwanted. I was left in a train station when I was three with my brother, a year older than I, who I basically raised. I only have an idea of where one of the other children might be. Since this was a malady that began with my mother when she was 16 and didn't end until she was almost 40.

    I've managed to get her up the bridge most of the way, at least enough so she doesn't have a drinking problem and recognizes right from wrong at least 50% of the time. That has been a struggle since she has a problem connecting dots for some reason. She also doesn't change most of her operating basis and mocks up the case almost as soon as someone takes it away.

    We've had a reverse role I guess.

    From what I've seen in society, a lot of the children even "planned" become unwanted early on and surrendered into the public school system.

    I am in the process of writing a book with the hope it will make a difference in the lives of some children.

    For me, the fact that I was unwanted made me grow up faster and become a lot more independent. Since I ended up being raised by people who themselves were more or less unwanted we were all on the same terms. As an adult I ended up taking responsibility for my parents and doing whatever I could for them. I found my father when I was in my 30's.

    I had a real Tom Sawyer childhood and I loved every minute of it. Parents never think about the fact they they themselves are a burden on children. They think a roof over the head or a bowl of food is the world. Look, how many homeless people do you see in this country? There really is not a scarcity for shelter or food. I left "home" at 14 and slept in the back of a funeral hearst for several months in a garage, and panhandled an hour a day for a tub of fried rice. It was not a big deal to have food or a place to sleep. The rest of the time I laid around in the park or read at the library, traveled roof tops, went to concerts in the park. I was on cloud nine. (skip the heroin chapter). I was able to get a phoney I.D. and a job and more or less spent at least half the year seeing America for a few years. I started hanging out at the Chruch of Scientology two weeks past my sixteenth birthday. I think coming in as a broke "kid" I got a lot of discount points. I mean, I think that's why I didn't go through any of the problems other people met. Whatever, I made it to clear at 21.

    But look at what the Hubbard kids inherited. One of them cracked in Las Vegas and the rest had to spend time visiting Mom in federal prison.

    Last edited: Dec 16, 2007
  13. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    IIRC in 8-8008 it says that assumption usually takes place at or shortly after birth. Not to say that's necessarily true of course. :)
  14. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Per the laws of magnetism, if you are not on someone's wavelength, consider yourself homeless shortly or after that birth.

  15. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Interesting viewpoint, and thanks for the historical detail.

    With regard to the point above: I don't consider putting your children in public school to be surrendering them. It's a delegation of a hat. Running a home is different for each family. Some parents have a very involved professional life, and giving that up seems silly. Some don't, and find it more valuable to personally handle the education of their children, or consider sacrificing their career worth directly handling the education. Personally, I'd sacrifice my career for my children's education, if I HAD TO, as in, they weren't learning, or their indicators were consistently bad after school. Otherwise, I'd delegate the hat to those who are trained to do it. However, I'd be pretty involved as a TUTOR. Make it easy on the teacher, and train my children to be independent learners, such that they don't act as a drag on their class, etc.

    I agree with you that parents can actively block a person from doing or being or having what they want in life, and where this is the case, perhaps they would be better off abandoned! Food and shelter are not the only functions of a parent! If that is all that is received, it's pretty shoddy parenting, but if there's no negatives attached, it's a minimum I can live with.
  16. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    In India we let God worry about the future.

  17. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    It is attachment to bodies, not just to one's own but other people's. That is why they bury bodies to keep them around as long as possible.

    It is attachment to physical terminals.

    In India, there are so many bodies that such scarcity is not felt. One just moves on.

  18. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    But think of the benefits, Tansy. If you came back as a chick, you would never have to go far to find a female arse to admire. :)

  19. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Do you fight for your old clothes? That would be irrational.

    If you believe you can get new bodies, then fighting for an old, broken down body is let go as irrational.

    Do you fight against gravity? No, you understand it enough to turn it to your advantage.

  20. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Isn't that an abdication of responsibility?

    I see the wisdom in "living in the moment" but one needs to plan and work for a future - or does one?