ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



Debbie Cook strikes back

Discussion in 'Debbie Cook' started by Mike Laws, Feb 2, 2012.

  1. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Also Paul are you referring to the clause that if someone was declared you were not to have any contact with them while you were getting auditing or training, this seems to have grown into you not having contact with the neighbour's son's friend's uncle of someone who who is declared.
     
  2. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I was only thinking of the shift from a fairly sensible stated policy — that people closely connected to anti-social people [they do exist even if they only fit one of Hubbard's 12 points] don't do so well in life — to misusing that to try to stop people telling their friends about various CofS scams and criminal actions.

    Extending that to friends of friends? I don't know how that came about. Possibly in one case that was done as it was expedient in the situation, and that precedent was robotically followed by others. If the stable data on what to do were from written and easily-available policy, like the OEC volumes contain, then it would rarely happen as people could see for themselves. But orders from on high have violated those policies for decades, sometimes from expediency (or because of secret policy not known to lower echelons) but often because the kids giving the orders didn't even know the policies in question. Similarly down on the ground in local orgs there is such an atmosphere of emergency and threat that calm adherence to written policy is not too high on the priority list if it conflicts with the screams du jour.

    Paul
     
  3. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    MY LAST ETHICS OFFICER

    [​IMG]

    "So, since there is an SP living in your city
    that you might run into, you have to move!"
     
  4. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP



    And here's his senior:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. LA SCN

    LA SCN NOT drinking the kool-aid

    Whew...when I first saw the image HH, I thought you had done a major scoop and discovered that, better late than never, LRH was back and had come onboard to personally run the Debbie Cook persecution...I mean prosecution.

    :omg:
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
  6. LA SCN

    LA SCN NOT drinking the kool-aid

    I heard he was a dog pc...

    (bada bing?)

    :hysterical:
     
  7. GreyLensman

    GreyLensman Silver Meritorious Patron

    "Knowing how to know", no doubt.
     
  8. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    What always killed me, as a HUGE contradiction in Scientology, is that as I see it, while there possibly can be a very high awareness known as "knowingness", this is NOT what exists with the usual Scientologist.

    Instead, in Scientology, "knowing how to know" manifested and existed ONLY as:

    "knowing how to agree with Hubbard's claims, statements, ideas and explanations".

    Any "knowingess" that contradicts Hubbard or the Church of Scientology is not allowed or even tolerated. Never. Not in any way, shape or form. What invovlement with Scientology teaches you is "knowing how to know the fixed ideas of Hubbard's subject of Scientology".

    This type of believer-based "knowingness" actually exists FAR down Hubbard's Know to Mystery Scale at the level of THINKINGNESS. This Scientology knowingness usually exists as concepts, as ideas, as notions, as beleif, and these are ALL of the nature of "thinkingness". I like how Hubbard somewhere defined "thinkingess" as:

    "The action of trying to know without looking".

    That is what all nutters, religious or otherwise, do. They "think", with no connection of the accepted ideas to observations of anything, and they walk around "knowing". But, most of this is IMAGINATION fueled by the familiarity with the content of Hubbard's writings and lectures.

    It is "knowingness" as "thinkingness". And, Hubbard, knowing all about these things, tricked his followers into confusing "knowingness" with what he actually gave them - lots of thinkingness (agreement with ideas, concepts, beliefs, etc.).

    Know to Mystery Scale, (1953)

    Knowingness - Scientology PRETENDS to operate HERE.
    Lookingness
    Emotingness
    Effortingness
    Thinkingness - Scientology ACTUALLY operates HERE.
    Symbolizingness
    Eatingness
    Sexingness
    Mystery


    Debbie can "know" all the truth about the nasty behaviors of Scientology, but when and if she communicates such things, she will run up against the demand for "thinking and agreeing" with Hubbard's organizational party-line. In Scientology, knowingness = thinkingess. Hubbard seemed to have designed his organization to demand and enforce that.
     
  9. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    Yeah, that's always struck me about Scientology. Just as it tells its adherents to look into their mind and then proceeds to tell them what is there, so too does it claim to teach "knowing how to know" and then tells the adherent everything they "need" to know. Anything else is an aberration and, even years after leaving the cult, some are still "certain" about it all. And proud of it. Crazy.
     
  10. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    I think it is an off shoot of this: it came about from a practice up at Int, I think it was in Mark Headley's book - I know I have read it on ESMB, but they take each person on staff and find out who that person knows, names and addresses, and do the next person on the chain (much like the 6 degrees of separation) etc, until they have a file - if the person blows, they can look in the file and see where they'd be likely to go. That has a precedence in church policy with the investigations to pull the string to see who's talking to who, in the hunt for an SP behind it all.

    Kinda paranoid way of dealing with things. But when you are running a long con, you have to keep the flys off the bride by continually swatting them.

    As to notification, look at what the church actually does - they post the golden rod up on the board outside the MAA's office (or they used to any way) So, if you, the nasty SP wasn't on lines at said org, how would you know, if a friend didn't tell you, or you didn't wander in an see it? You might find out by rumor line, I suppose, and now days, you have people un-friending you based on rumors.

    Lets say it came up in session, I was chatting with Sally, and my auditor knew Sally was declared, and I got KR'd and went to the MAA. So the MAA shows me the declare, so I stop talking to Sally. Unless I normally saw Sally a lot, she might never notice I had ceased talking to her (disconnected) and if I never blabbed it to my or her friends, how would Sally, or anybody else know?

    Mimsey
     
  11. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    I think they operate lower than that:

    Know to Mystery Scale, (1953R)

    Knowingness - Scientology PRETENDS to operate HERE.
    Lookingness
    Emotingness
    Effortingness
    Thinkingness Symbolizingness
    Eatingness
    Sexingness
    Mystery
    Not-thinkingness - Scientology public in good standing operate here
    Pretended thinkingness - Scientology camera hat goons operate here
    Pretended knowingness - Scientology ACTUALLY exists HERE.
    Lies - Scientology ACTUALLY operates HERE.

    Mimsey
     
  12. NonScio

    NonScio Patron Meritorious

    He is usually found to be Barking Up The Wrong Tree. Unfortunately,
    his Bite is often bigger than his Bark....and, bigger than his brain.
     
  13. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Cool post.

    It calls to mind a definition I "discovered" while doing some wholetrack research (remembering ages ago when I was in Scientology). If was the definition of OT.

    "Total Certainty With No Knowledge"

    As I read your interesting post and bumped into that Hubbard definition of "thinkingness":

    "The action of trying to know without looking"


    I immediately was reminded of the method by which the Commodore was able to divine all of the secrets of events that occurred 75 million years ago with Xenu that he claims he was not even subjected to at the time. Or how about those "Gorilla Goal Implants" 319 trillion years ago? Or how about the "black thetan implants" 390 trillion-trillion years ago?

    How did Ron have this "knowingness"?

    ANSWER: He pervaded. That's right. That's the same way he "knew" that 2.5% of all beings are evil SPs. It's how he knew another curious things too....

    Ron knew that "Scientology is the only game in the universe where everyone wins". Hmmmm, how would someone "know" this unless they had "looked" instead of speculative "thinkingness"? Imagine how someone might be able to boldly make such a sweeping and authoritative claim! They would have had to travel throughout the entire universe and personally "looked at" every single game that every single being is playing everywhere.

    But, instead of "looking", per his own denunciation of "thinkingness", he applied the Hubbard Law of Commotion and simply "pervaded".

    It's a direct quote from the 1st American ACC lectures. It's vintage Hubbard Law of Commotion ("For each and every scientology datum there is equal and opposite datum")

    "The best way to know Is to pervade."


    So, which is it Ron? Look or Pervade?

    I'm waiting....

    I'm waiting....

    Jeez, that's quite a com lag you have there Dr. Hubbard. I think I'll just pervade the answer.

    And the answer is........drumroll................................

    Pervade means lying and making shit up.

    Did you get that Ron?

    Wait, I just "looked" and Ron is not at Target II the way those Scientologists promised me. They must have been pervading too.
     
  14. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Is that pervasion, or PERVERSION??????? :confused2:

    Perversion of the truth, perversion of justice, perversion of just about EVERYTHING! :ohmy:
     
  15. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    This just arrived from Target II. I think it's for you. . .



    POST SCRIPT: After I posted this, I re-read it and suddenly was hit (again!) with the ludicrousness of Hubbard boasting that he was the savior of the universe when he couldn't even save his own family or himself from mental illness, prison and suicide. How incredibly stupid and insane is the game of Scientology?

    POST-POST SCRIPT: Friendly message to Debbie Cook. Be careful of what you postulate. You might get the same results from the tech that Ron did.
     
  16. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I think that I would suffer endless torment if I had to 1) continue to listen to Hubbard's constant pretentious boasting, claims and huffy-puffing, 2) remain immersed in the mindless framework of dumb Scientology ideas, and 3) remain affiliated with the absurd posturing, endless manipulation and perpetual deceit of the Church of Scientology.

    I will take my chances Ron. :yes:
     
  17. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Great news, you just got a response from Target II!

     
  18. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Don't worry Ron, I realized that YOU are the "Merchant of Chaos"! :ohmy: :yes:

    And, I came to that conclusion by APPLYING the sensible notions of:

    1) What's true for me is what I have OBSERVED baced on honest and careful experience.

    2) Never compromise with my own perceptions, experience, and hard-won assimilations of "facts".

    Ron, I am applying the Scientology Code of Honor now, with YOU.

    Do not give or receive communication unless you yourself desire it.

    I am disconnecting from YOU Mr. Hubturd. Please do not communciate to me again, in any way, unless you have fully completed the "Be Free of Scientology A-E Steps". My "Gadfly Communicator" is handling all my comm, and has been trained to remove all "entheta" from my lines. All further communication from "Target Two" included.

    And, please, oh PLEASE, do not EVER SING "in my general direction" - it is too painful, and quite smelly.

    [video=youtube;FWBUl7oT9sA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBUl7oT9sA[/video]
     
  19. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Wait, don't disconnect yet. . .