ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Debbie Cook - the story behind the story

Discussion in 'Debbie Cook' started by Free to shine, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    Maybe she still will. Who knows. I do think she was genuinely very ill. It's hard to fight big battles when you're ill.

    I do agree with you. I think taking the blood money is slimy. I don't think he made her look great. To me he made her look slightly better but just opened a can of worms.

    I feel you though. People really are brainwashed when they're in ( for lack of a better term). When they get out it's like they're not even the same people and so even they have a disconnect on their own behavior.

    I would like to see her do more. Whatever she does (if she does anything at all) will have to get around any and all agreements she's signed. :(
  2. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    I took few days to try to put up my thoughts, which are neither less or more valuable than Mike Rinder's take or other member's opinions here..Thoughts,are just thoughts and opinions, either made of prejudiced favorable\not favorable to her, or made from personnal experiences in encountering her as a colleague \ reg \ Captain\boss runing a $cieno SO compound. (A slavery and mindfucking compound)

    (I don't have any doubt she was a good intented youngster when she joined $CN with good motives, as we mostly did)

    Mike, as a colleague, may have good feelings and much admiration toward her, her past en present behavior, her post and support her decisions...He can admire her record of service and training at Flag. Fine...It belongs to him, not to others neither does it represents THE RIGHT THOUGHT.

    Other fellows may have work for FSO CAPTAIN Debbie and experienced true $cientology abuse from a High Rank powerful senior who would decide if they are denied red meat, proper sleep, and sent to[STRIKE] rpf[/STRIKE] prison...It's like having power over you to live or die. We never read anything from her about this..only few ex SO did mentionned it.... so they are too entitled to their opinion, feelings, emotions and to be judgemental...even though her e-mail got people out...but this is another issue. (I don't believe it was intended to be so but more as an attempt to create something else..., but I may be wrong here)

    That would have help the cause if she disclosed such human abuses in her e-mail. If she would have tols the human right abuses on SO coumpounds while testifying and would have appeared as genuinely well intented to many people.
    But it remained only focus on David Miscavige scam of IAS. ..the money...
    The worst abuses and tragedies remained under the the closet...

    Some other, may have a lot of admiration for her as they recall the very good auditor she was....they may feel she helped them...they may be greateful - fine!

    Some others may have carried a very negative prejudice toward her as they may have been put into these famous Flag reg cycles (you are litterally extorted all your belongings even the inheritance you didn't yet get as the dev-t old mother isn't dying yet) - they may have been threated, put in ethics, coerced to get loans..put on infinite cycles of seck checking, and gone bancrupties and mentally sick...those may hold a different opinion than Mike.

    Some others, are gone..they are dead...because they have been put in isolation , denied their right, let fall into dehydration, locked in small rooms, and mentally tortured to be forbidden any communication and to leave...others have taken out their life, other died in despair, sick, completely ruined... those, we can't know what they think... (Here I had a priviledge access to the heartbreaking story of one millionaire completely ruined in a short time and who had suicide as it's sole option to end his sufferings...)

    I don't belong to any of this category, but I know how Flag was run as a SO compound, by experience, I know it was run as a slave camp, and that a top executive must be an enforcer of abuses to keep holding such position with full support of COB...especially when the executive live on royal condition , like a queen in a palace, while SO don't have proper food, sleep and hygiene\shoes\ medical-dental care, berthing...and are put in prison, while those executive buy expensive cars the day after they ruined a weak woman.

    These are fact...wether these are pleasant or not...these are facts...They might be ''normal business as usual'' (as the end justify means to get stat compliancy for some people who run it from the top) , but for the nobody, the one in despair, at the bottom...these are deep suffering and scarves that remains for decades if not for a lifetime. I never read any kind of sorrow, apology, admission from Captain FSO Debbie, ..never... I only read and heard what have been done to the end of her long prosperous career.

    We certainly don't know what she ressents, deep, in her heart...neither what the futur will bring as changes of viewpoints.

    But when some people tell me that Captain Cook was so admirable, because of her record, training, devotion, e-mail, ...I am short of admiration..I gave it to people who ,despite the abuses , left, escaped, and survived the sequels and those many who spoke. Those who tried to help others to go free and those who sincerely expressed their deep sorrow..we can feel their shame and sadness when they do so...they deserve admiration for the courage to see the wrongdoing.

    I wouldn't take for a proud record any of my years in the cult neither any ''pseudo accomplishment''...and I would forbid anyone to remind it to me as a positive accomplishment. I never talk about it, as it turned out that I was working for an Enslaving Organisation INC.

    A few people in the cult, rose to top exec post, and used their powers to give relief to help them to route off, to get better slave conditions, to solve situation etc..some protected their juniors..those were more driven by kindness than by power, status, and money goals. I don't know about Debbie Cook..only her juniors would know and may judge her records as well as public who she regged

    So when people don't suddenly change completely their feelings and mind, because one seems to have left the [STRIKE]Cult[/STRIKE] Church INC...but not the cult of $cientoplogy and Hubtardism, and never brought light to what happened neither unveiled the abuses to let know the SO slaves conditions at Flag...I understand them. And they shouldn't pay attention to any comment like :: Ehhhh you can criticize when you'll have done what she has done....bla bla bla.. How dare you...bla bla....

    Many people refused to do abusing stuff although they were offered power, money and status...


    I am happy she can recover a normal life..better her heath, because there is no doubt she ALSO have suffered some abuse in the last months ...but the fact she didn't released any other abuses in her e-mail is a choice, a decision she made...

    Now, it's belongs to her..only her..

    I wish her good luck and to resolve anything she would need, also to find peace at heart, but I will never admire the post and fucntion she held for what it had implied, caused as suffering\abuses and tragedies.. No!
    No matter what Rinder, or any other member here, may think and write as their thought is only their viewpoints from their own perspective. Not at all more valuable that any other.

    In other words and to make it very simple, there is a huge part missing in
    the complete story behind the story to grasp what was the true Story of Debbie Cook and to understand it. All the part of Captain FSO COOK at flag... But I feel very grateful I was not a nobody behind the scene to experience it!

    My 2 cents

    I thank the free speakers.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
  3. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    A former executive of the Cult of Scientology.....that held a very high position of power.....expounding upon another former executive of the cult of Scientology, in a favorable light....that held a very high position of always going to be suspect to me...

    Bird of a feather.....flock together....

  4. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    A tale of two OTs. . .

    Once upon a time there was a person
    who was so consumed with guilt
    that she publicly threatened the king
    by saying she "knew where the bodies were buried".

    The king sent a messenger over offering
    her a bag of gold for her silence.

    She said, "Sure, no problem," at which
    moment king was happy and her
    guilt misemotions blew.
  5. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    I still have 8 more pages to read, but I wanted to stop with you for a moment. I remember when Marty posted that he'd send refunds to the cause upon request, in his blog.
  6. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    Unless I'm mistaken, the expression is: Take a runnin' jump at a rollin' donut on a gravel driveway.
  7. prosecco

    prosecco Patron Meritorious

    Yes, and then I think the fund was turned over to Debbie?
  8. prosecco

    prosecco Patron Meritorious

    Here's what I struggle with as far as people taking money from the C of S.

    In legal proceedings, that's really the only option, i.e. a settlement is only really ever financial.

    Ideally, a judge would ask someone as far as restitution what would fit the situation, but the legal process isn't that creative and therefore we have this system where people take a financial settlement in order to brings matters to a close.

    Maybe I would have had more respect for Debbie if she opened up a home for retired Sea Org members, or gave the money to an orphanage in Syria or whatever.

    But then, I don't really begrudge her having a bit of financial security.

    I don't have any conclusions really, but Marty and Mosey are going to be faced with the same situation at some stage, i.e. taking a financial settlement, the only difference will be whether they agree to a non disclosure agreement.
  9. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

  10. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    True and I never asked for a refund.
  11. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    "Bodies buried and such". Literally.

    As Captain FSO, she would know a lot about what happened with Lisa McPherson and a lot of other Scientologists. I'm guessing that they figured that Cook might not talk about things which might implicate her too. But put her back against the wall, and who knows what she might talk about?
  12. Pheryn

    Pheryn Patron with Honors

    This is a beautifully stated and powerful post. Thank you so much, Lotus.

  13. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    Uh - I think this is a bit different than a "sales pitch" from a restaurant.

    Scientology ruins lives- destroys people and shatters families. Restaurants may provide a shitty meal. It won't ruin your life.

    Debbie Cook got blood money in exchange for silence. How is that okay?
  14. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on



    PC's PECULIAR PECUNIARY PARADOX: The irreconcilably hypocritical event wherein a conscientious ex-Scn whistleblower (who has been ranting & reporting on the cult's financial abuse, corruption & fraud) takes a gargantuan financial settlement from Scientology--who pays them with loads of cash coerced from the very same victims that their financial whistleblowing was ostensibly intended to help.
  15. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader


    It's impossible to apply legitimate restitution procedures, etc. to an organization that is illegitimate from the outset. Once you start with lies, it's all downhill from there.
  16. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    Her famous e-mail did the job it was supposed to do. What Debbie Cook agreed to is to not say anything MORE against church management.

    She got money for "shutting up", it's true, but what she really got was peace from the church -- instead of a long drawn-out protracted lawsuit. It's tough to survive that sort of attack, even if you do eventually win.

    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
  17. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    I don't know about that HH.

    It seems the Cult settled after Debbie's time on the witness stand...and what she said.

    (as far as I've followed this)

    It seems to me.....that the Cult had folded....and "paid out" to keep Debbie quite.

    Others have posted about protracted legal battles.....and sure that is true.

    But also, Witness a very illegal activity......

    And IMO the Cult would not have pursued additional law suits against Debbie.....after folding on the first one.

    I don't see how the Cult could have sued her again......

    IMO the Cult's thrust was to keep her out of court.....and what ever she could have said.....out of any legal ....proceedings...and hence, public records...

    Someone else had posted that part of the "agreement" was that Debbie could not have anything to do with the "independent field." I don't know how the Cult could enforce or legally bind someone not to pursue the religious practice of their choice....that seems plain weird to me....

    IMO, money was to shut up....and leave the field of "scientology...."

    Just some thoughts....
  18. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    True. But, Scientology would not have expressed it exactly that way. . .

    Instead, the COS (Crimewave of Scientology) would have sent her a check with a note like the following:

    Dear Ms Cook:

    Kindly find the enclosed power flow to you for which your exchange is to be there comfortably and do nothing.

    Your Comrade, Best Friend & Buddy--



    ps: sorry for any misunderstanding about the time I ordered you to stand in a garbage can with a "Lesbian" sign around your neck, while int execs threw cold water on you, screaming, torturing & terrorizing you for hours on end. And the time I ordered people to slap your face and bend your fingers back until they break. Please don't get all hung up with stuck attention units on these events because they merely involved your MEST body inside the MEST universe--and Ron states that beings should operate in the THETA universe.
  19. prosecco

    prosecco Patron Meritorious

    Fair point.

    Part of the problem is that no one really knows why the C of S settled with Debbie, so it's all speculation.

    However, most whistle blowers get a settlement after embarrassing disclosures, or a further threat to reveal further information. But for the most part, it's an altruistic point being made (i.e. Snowden, Erin Brockovich etc).

    Debbie, through a series of events not really under her control, was somehow thrown into a situation where people expected a lot of her, possibly unreasonably as she never really bargained for any of it, yet was expected to be a hero.

    What infuriates me is that the C of S continues to make financial settlements with people, yet they don't change. If it was a multi national company and received as much bad PR, the shareholders would demand resignation, reform, change of practice and apologies.
  20. chipgallo

    chipgallo Patron Meritorious

    They cannot change, because the abusive practices are embedded into the very woof and warp of Scientology corporate administration. From Day One it is drilled into participants, starting with the very first policy letter in the course room, Keeping Scientology Working.