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Dianetics Revisited.

Discussion in 'L Ron Hubbard' started by guanoloco, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Here's some interesting commentary from Mechanisms and Aspects of Therapy in Dianetics.

    This aspect of pain is quite interesting in that many patients have, at one time or another in their lives, pretended to the family or the world that they had a pain. The patient thought, when he asserted this "make-believe" pain, that he was lying. In therapy, the auditor can use these "imaginings", for they lead straight to sympathy engrams and actual injury. Further, these "imaginary" pains are generally displayed to the person or psuedo-person whowas the sympathy ally present in the engramic moment. Thus, if a small boy always pretended to his grandmother, and thought he was pretending, that he had a bad hip, it will be discovered eventually that sometime in his early life he hurt that same hip and received sympathy during the engramic moment which is now eclipsed from the analyzer. Patients often feel guilty over these pretenses. Sometimes soldiers in the recent war have come home pretending they had been wounded and, when in therapy, are afraid the auditor will find out or give them away to their people. This soldier might not have been wounded in the war, but an engram will be found which contains sympathy for the injury of which he complains. He is asking for sympathy with a colorful story and believes he is telling a lie.​

    Of course it is well documented that Ron claimed war injuries and healing himself from the same with Dianetics when he never saw combat or was never wounded.

    But that hip...where have I heard that before? Hmmmm...I know! HIP! HIP! Naaaaawwww...that wasn't it...let's see...

    Ron's Affirmations:

    Your hip is a pose. You have a sound hip. It never hurts. Your
    shoulder never hurts.​
  2. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    This is from Some Types of Engrams in Dianetics.

    (There is no such thing as guilt nor a guilty complex that is not straight out of an engram that says, "I am guilty" or some such similar phrase.)​

    There you have it...being "guilty" is an aberration.

    Ron rose above the bank.
  3. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Many times - sorry, don't have an exact example - he iterates the distinction between theory and scientific fact. He makes this comparison with things such as the germ theory, etc.

    What Ron doesn't know or, if he does, he is playing on the ignorance of his reader is that theory means a hunch or a guess or an idea of how something is and scientific theory is the way something actually is having been established over and over by tests and experiments and independently observed in laboratories all over the world with the results being 100% unvaried, verified, predictable and unanimous.

    These definitions mean almost the exact opposite of one another - so Ron, in essence, is attempting to clarify between scientific theory and what he claims as scientific fact when in all actuality scientific theory is, strictly speaking, scientific fact.

    This is presented that theory is all well and fine for pundits in their ivory towers but for the engineer and when it comes to man's sanity it won't do so it was time for someone to roll up their sleeves and get to work and actually get dirty so that the scientific fact(s) could be found.

    HIP! HIP! Greater than the wheel and on the order of fire such is the discovery of Dianetics.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
  4. AnonLover

    AnonLover Patron Meritorious

    Good thread! Keep going.
  5. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Well...pretty much through the book and the only other thing I have is what most already know and that is Dianetics is a science of the mind and, as such, there are no demons in Dianetics. There are valences and circuits but these are not entities...rather they are automaticities (the word used is mechanics) set up by the mind and then given control by robbed attention units all encysted with entheta (enturbulated thought).

    Also, Dianetics is not and never will be concerned with what you have done but only what has been done to you.

    In Scientology these two things are reversed. You're impregnated with entities and we're only interested in overts.

    It's the Hubbard Law of Commotion at it's best.

    First, you unconsciously set it up yourself but you're not responsible because you were reacting to the pain...which then makes you this works, IDK, but suffice it to say you were reactive before you were reactive. You set it up from what was done to you.

    Later, you were subjected to trauma and injected with softened up theta beings but instead of not being responsible for this you proactively have responsibility due to your overts. You pulled in what was done to you and were overwhelmed by Xenu's machinations. Somehow a very-late-on-the-chain incident of 75 million years ago completely overwhelmed trillions of trillions of years of overts and track. It's not like Xenu is a lock, for crying out loud, it's THE Wall of Fire.
  6. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    ughhhhhhhhh...stop stop...using reason you are destroying my cognitive dissonance .....soon I will be......uhmmmm liberated from all that shit and what will I do then to achieve total freedom? :coolwink:

  7. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Hubbard was a physical wreck, probably why so many pinks and greys, or greens. Pity he couldn't get Dianetics to work on him.

  8. Jump

    Jump Operating teatime

    Scientific Theory is only one step away from 'Scientific Law'. These scientific laws eg the Newton's law of gravity, Ohm's law of resistance, Snell's law of refraction, Boyle's law of gasses etc etc , they all have a mathematical equation that spells out exactly what they mean.

    Some scientific theories can never be reduced to a mathematical equation, and so yes, a scientific theory is often as proven as things ever get.
  9. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    One example of empirical evidence (facts) would be the measurements of the number of various types of nematodes in the soil around plants in a field under study.

    A scientific theory on this topic would be based on repeatable experiments that demonstrate how a certain type of nematode affects crop yield.

    Dianetics is not a scientific theory based on empirical evidence (i.e. engrams as described in DMSMH).
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016
  10. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Theories explain laws. They're the "why" of something that "is".

    OK enough of that. Soon to be posted is an analysis of Ron's 270 researched cases.
  11. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    :omg: Another near impossible discovery about to be revealed. I look forward to how you came to rise above the 'case of missing persons'. So thankful that you are corroborate that which lies in DMSMH. I have my 3D glasses all cleaned and sprayed with an anti-virus defogger.....waiting,, waiting...yumm this is good popcorn...

    And no this is not a belittling comment about your work Guanoloco, but an invitation to J&D along with some levity while dealing with an otherwise deadly serious activity...double entendre left to stand.

  12. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Looking forward to the 270 cases. Even Heinlein before the publication of Dianetics was interested in the 270 cases, or Gallery Proofs.

    At the time, the 1950's, the writers of SF or anything called them Galley's, or Galley Proofs:

    In the personal correspondence letters between Campbell & Heinlein, and between Hubbard & Heinlein,

    In summary of reading all those letters between Hubbard & Heinlein, and between Campbell & Heinlein,

    Heinlein answered several many letters from Hubbard and Campbell asking for the Galley Proofs, and none were provided by either Hubbard or Campbell, and thus Heinlein had his trepidation's on getting involved.

    But, don't let my summary influence or persuade you, check it out for yourself.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  13. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    OK, let's get the party rolling.

    Here's Ron mentioning his 270 cases - I grossly underestimated Ron's production in this area and posted his stat as a mere 240 cases. I stand corrected.

    Just how many physical errors are psycho-somatic depends upon how many conditions
    the body can generate out of the factors in the engrams. For example, the common cold has
    been found to be psycho-somatic. Clears do not get colds. Just what, if any, part the virus
    plays in the common cold is not known, but it is known that when engrams about colds are
    lifted, no further colds appear -- which is a laboratory fact not so far contradicted by 270 cases.​


    At the end of a series of 270 clears and alleviations a short series of five cases was
    taken to finally settle the argument. These five cases were not permitted to admit anything
    before birth. They were treated with everything dianetics, hypnotism and other therapeutics
    could offer, and no clear was obtained. This ruled out the “personality of the operator” or
    “suggestion” or “faith” as factors in dianetics. These five cases had never been informed of
    prenatal engrams. Each swerved in toward them but was restrained without informing him that
    engrams existed that early. The five were alleviated as to some variety of psycho-somatic ills
    but the ills were only alleviated, not completely cured. The aberrations remained but little
    changed. They are extremely disappointed since each had heard something of “the miracles
    dianetics could perform.” Before then 270 cases had been worked and 270 cases had reached
    prenatal engrams. And 270 cases had been cleared or alleviated as the dianeticist chose and time
    permitted. All could have been cleared with an additional average of 100 or so hours for each
    of the persons who were alleviated. In short, on random cases -- and selected cases so that at
    least two of each classification of neurosis or psychosis was included in the clearing -- when
    prenatal engrams and birth were taken into account and used in therapy, results were obtained.
    When these factors were not taken into account, results were no more favorable than those
    attained in the best successes of past schools -- which is not nearly good enough for a science
    of mind.​

    Of key importance here is the line "And 270 cases had been cleared or alleviated as the dianeticist chose and time permitted." We're going to investigate this claim - also worthy of comment is that, to my knowledge, the only two books that mention "dianeticist(s)" is DMSMH and the Brainwashing Manual. I'm certain it makes appearances in early PABs and such but I don't think it's in SOS. I could be wrong.

    OK, first...let's examine the comments on Q quantity...from a passage called DRUGS.

    There are some drugs which assist reverie, however. The commonest and most easily
    obtainable is plain, strong coffee. A cup or two of this occasionally alerts the analyzer enough
    so that it can reach through deeper layers of “unconsciousness.” Benzedrine and other
    commercial stimulants have been used with some success, particularly on psychotic patients.
    These bring the mind enough awake to permit it to overcome engramic commands. Such
    commercial stimulants have the disadvantage of exhausting a Q quantity in the mind.

    This Q Quantity has not been much studied. It is as though the brain burns a certain
    amount of Q when it is exhausting engrams. For instance, therapy every day may bring results
    more rapidly but it will also bring some stale sessions. Therapy every two or three days
    produces the best results as observed. (Therapy once a week permits the engrams to sag and
    slows a case, one week being too long.) Benzedrine burns up Q. After a few sessions with
    benzedrine the current stock of Q is exhausted and the work has been observed to deteriorate
    either until a higher dosage was administered -- and there is a close limit to that -- or until more
    Q was manufactured.

    Here, with all this, must be included an important and vital fact. It should be on a page
    by itself and underscored. All patients in therapy should be given a dosage of vitamin B1 orally
    or by injection at the minimum of 10 mg. per day. Reducing engrams exhausts Q which seems
    to depend in some measure on B1. You can be absolutely certain of nightmares in a patient
    who is not taking his B1. Taking liberal doses of that, he will have no nightmares. DT’s are
    probably caused by a similar exhaustion of Q Quantity. DT’s are best treated by B1 and
    dianetics. Something like DT’s on a very minor scale have been observed to develop in
    occasional patients who were negligent about their B1. With it, in therapy, they thrive.​

    Next...we have Working Time in Therapy.


    The usual period of a dianetic treatment is two hours. In these two hours, with the
    usual patient, everything is going to be accomplished which can be accomplished on that day.
    Working every day is not necessary, but working every two days or every three days is
    desirable. Working with periods a week apart is not optimum, for the case tends to rebalance.
    Further, there is a “sag” in a case, usually every fourth day when it is not worked in periods as
    short as three days. The fourth day “sag” is a natural mechanical thing: an engram, keyed-in,
    when it is restimulated in life, takes about four days to cut in sharply. In therapy, three days is
    sometimes required to “develop” an engram. This does not mean that three days have to elapse
    before it is available and it does not mean that work has to stop for three days, but it does mean
    that engrams, not being memories and articulate as such, take three days, sometimes, to come
    to the surface.

    To be more clear, an engram can be asked for on day one and will be found on day
    three. Meanwhile the auditor is getting other engrams. This process is so automatic that it
    requires no attention and will not come to notice except in cases that are being worked once a
    week. The engram is asked for on day one, is ready to reduce on day three, sags on day four
    and is rebalanced by day seven.

    The three day aspect is interesting in another sense. This time of three days is just an
    observation of the average behavior of pre-clears. Precision investigation may fix it at 2.5 days
    or 3.6 days (it varies in individuals), but three days is close enough for our purposes. When
    one is doing just a release on a case, he will sometimes find that it is necessary to take a late
    engram and run it: the physical pain engram of later life (post-birth) will appear to rise, will
    remain constant for three days and then will “sag.” When it sags, the auditor will have to go
    back to it and run it again. Taking out these “sags” will eventually make the later life engram
    stay in a recessed state.

    Euphoria often sets in on a case when the auditor touches an engram which contains a
    manic. The patient will then go around saying how wonderful dianetics is because he is now in
    magnificent condition and is so happy. Watch out. In three or four days this manic will have
    sagged back to a depressive state. Be wary if somebody experiences one of these sky-rocket
    “recoveries” for it is about as permanent as the fire of a burning match. It goes out and leaves
    very cold ashes. The auditor, seeing this euphoria, had better enter the case again and reduce
    the engram it contains more thoroughly or get a more basic engram.

    The length of time it takes to clear a person is quite variable. By blowing despair
    charges and working a few early engrams, an auditor can get a better state of being in the
    patient than in any past therapy in twenty or thirty hours: this is a release. It compares to two or
    three years of past therapeutic work. The length of time it takes to get a clear cannot be
    compared to any past standard because a clear is something no past standard ever dreamed

    In a sonic case, where recall is in good condition, a clear can be obtained in a hundred
    hours. In a case which has thoroughly shut down recalls, anything can happen up to, in
    extremity, a thousand hours. Similarly, the imaginative case which has things which never
    happened, may be long.

    Look at it this way: we can get the results of two or three years of psycho-analysis in a
    score or two of hours of dianetics and what we accomplish with dianetics does not have to be
    done again, which is not true with psycho-analysis. This is the release. He can go about his
    business in a far more competent fashion, his emotional charges being largely freed. In the
    clear we are attempting and can achieve a supernormal state of mind. Thousands and thousands
    and thousands of hours were spent in the education of a man: the expenditure of two or even
    ten thousand hours of work to make him rank about what would formerly have been possible
    for him is work well spent. But we do not have to spend anything like this amount of time.
    People have been cleared in anything from thirty hours, when they had sonic and little volume,
    to five hundred hours when they had shut-down recall plus imaginary recall. What an auditor
    can do with his first few cases by way of time is a question mark. He will get to the clear
    eventually and certainly in less than twelve hundred hours in a severe case. All the time he is
    working toward a clear he is achieving a higher and higher release which, after at least fifty
    hours, rises well above the current norm and keeps right on soaring. Improvement is such that
    from week to week the charge is physiologically noticeable and psychologically startling. If
    one thinks the reach for clear is a short jump and a small gain, then he has no conception of just
    how high that goal is.

    Most auditors will try for release at first and are wise if they do. When their own case is
    finally cleared, only then will they suddenly realize that the state was worth far more time than
    was expended to attain.

    It is impossible to forecast, with a new auditor, just how much time he will consume in
    making errors, learning his tools, attaining skill. It is therefore impossible to estimate for him
    how long it will take him to gain a clear in a patient. A well trained auditor never takes more
    than eight hundred hours with the worst of cases: five hundred is high.​

    OK, this is where HH gets the idea of a 20 hour Clear - please note that it is a 20 hour Release.

    Then, we have the History of Dianetics.

    In 1935 some of the basic research was begun: in 1938 the primary axioms were
    discovered and formulated. For the next several years these axioms were tested in the
    laboratory of the world. The war interrupted the work, as wars will, being chaos, but shortly
    after the cessation of actual hostilities, research was renewed. Within a year the fundamentals
    of this science as they applied to the human mind had been integrated. They were tested on a
    long series of random patients and each test further refined the work, but each application
    brought specific results.

    Five years after the initial resumption of labor, in 1950, the work was prepared for
    release, all tests having brought forth the conclusion that dianetics is a science of mind, that it
    does disclose hitherto unknown laws about thought and that it has worked on every type of
    inorganic mental and organic psycho-somatic illness. Further, in the refinement of form
    attained, it was proven possible for the work to be used easily by people not lengthily trained.​

    Finally, we have the Future of Therapy

    One might say that it is an imposition upon a mathematician and philosopher to require
    him to resolve all the problems himself and to put forth all improvements. Indeed, it is an
    imposition that he be required to develop any technique of application at all, for there should be
    in any society an apportionment of labor.

    When the basic axioms and computations were finished, it was impossible to release
    them for there were none to whom such research could be released for application. Thus the
    work had to be carried out to its furthest extent of not only experimentation but the
    development and proof of the techniques of application.​

    He's stating that he did the work by himself...that's what I get from this and within a paragraph he's saying what would you think of a society that watched someone build a bridge and then stood around doing nothing? For God's Sake - Build a better Bridge!

    What sort of an opinion would you have of the society on the lower plateau if they but
    moaned and wept and argued and gave no hand at all in the matter of widening the bridge or
    making new bridges?

    In this handbook we have the basic axioms and a therapy which works.

    For God’s sake, get busy and build a better bridge!​

    The key here is that Ron, all by Ron's lonesome, Cleared and Alleviated 270 cases in 9 years. We get that with 1938 - 1942, then the war until 1945, then 1945 - 1950. Well, let's be generous and say that he spent 100 hours on each case as an average - we get 2,700 hours. Keep in mind that he states 2 hours per day and every 3 days.

    I'll attempt some math here. Let's say Ron could do 4 people per day. That means 12 patients getting 2 hours every 3 days. This gives Ron the capacity to audit for 8 hours each day. We won't speculate here on how Ron did the logistics of scheduling and all routing and all and drumming up the biz. Let's just assume that somehow he earned money while doing his research.

    If I'm correct I get something like 50 days to do 12 cases to a 100 hours. This is non-stop 8 hour days straight through. That means 1,125 days of non-stop auditing for 270 cases. Somewhere around 3 years worth of non-stop auditing.

    Now, he claims this is spread out over a 9 year period of testing - really it's 5 but let's give Ron some slack, OK? How does this give Ron any time to sponge off of the free sex Satan cult and two-time on his wife and kids?

    None of these people from this time period, Nibs, Parsons, Sara, Polly, Navy personnel, L Sprague D Camp, Heinlein, Campbell - anyone or any of them, mention the "work" that Ron is doing. It's absolutely impossible to have not noticed 270 cases getting on the average of 100 hours of therapy!!

    But you guys knew that already...
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  14. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    1. I am not arguing that you are wrong (I don't know) but please provide the source for your quotes.

    2. I don't see anything in those quotes that LRH claimed to do ALL of the auditing himself that led to his conclusions.

    BTW, I am not supporting SCN/Dianetics.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  15. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    Nevva mind.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  16. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    1. Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health

    2. I agree...he does specifically mention a husband/wife co-audit that was C/Sed by someone. The point is that there's in all reality an excess of 5,000 hours just in these 270 cases...then there's the logistics of starting this endeavor...the people involved....resources and time...and no mention from anyone in their various histories of anything taking place anywhere. What's the likelihood of someone with Hubbard's personality being close lipped with Parsons on his breakthrough discoveries? You don't think Parsons would've written electrifying letters to Crowley gushing over Ron and engrams?
    Clay Pigeon likes this.
  17. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    O.K. Since you brought up Parsons, I went and dug this out of my text editor.

    I think Dianetics is aptly identified with having its issues directed at the 'mind' or mind stuff. From a distance, looking over what I viewed while practicing is ALL mind stuff. It doesn't matter what aspect of the human experience or physical reality it is overseeing or running, you can observe it as a separate entity. The mental fabric is special 'material' into which and onto which impressions and codes are received or embedded. The individual who is not identical to any of it has a disadvantage when asked to run 'as if' he is any one certain aspect. It runs him 'in' instead of making him separate from the building blocks of his package.

    Sometimes, I think back on LRHs fiction and his inclusion of characters which represent Essenes, healers at war with the dark side. I wonder what his elaborations on the Incident II and Incident I tells me about HIM. Or what about his hypothesis that there are magical 'gates' through which demonic forces and powerful emmissaries arrive in our world. These are themes or dramas longed to be played out, which are prevelant in his own psyche. They are the concepts which he'd decided would explain the reasons WHY for the phenomena he lived among. I remember his failed involvement with the OTO. What is that dramatization. What aspiration ran through all of this?

    This manipulation of the spiritual software that RUNS things... this adding and subtracting of what he chose to label as entities/ theta bodies...hmmm? Whazzzup widdat? He spent yrs experimenting with the nature of implants and autonomous circuits...the hows of brainwashing.....erasing the memories... and hypnosis? This guy was on mission to figure out how pure, untainted, mind/spirit gets mucked up when dropped into our time/space. And yeah....he was on another quest too. $$$$ But, he was stuck, locked into the former, often going in circles.The healthy human attention is designed to look outward and not to ponder the schematic of the mind it is being.

    So what was Hubbard doing. What ambition was he trying to make some headway on. He wasn't unique in stating that people weren't being their true selves. He felt the discovery that people were unconsciously running on evolutionary patterns and commands was going to elevate him to stardom like no other. With his supposed epiphany of Excalibur, he had finally 'seen the light'....and found some tool to rule the world!

    In every age there have been magicians who invoked phenomena to happen via their charm over disenfranchised spirits. Does the life force or spirit of the orchid remain in the same template after the flower is withered. Is there a transmigration of essences between forms. The same forms, different forms? How long does the essence continue. From where has it come and to what purpise does it lean? These are the same older than dirt queries of the Greeks, Egyptians, Chaldeans.... Surfing over some of Plato and Plotinus I see a strong interest in 'what 'was running the forms in our society...asking what was the cause for things having specific natures under the pantheon of gods.

    Amongst some dim memories I seem to see souls called upon, enchanted, extracted from their natural domains and resevoirs. Endowments with a function to 'be' the animation, the distinctive attributes of species. Mixing and matching these, adding and subtracting, is the domain of the alchemist...the sorcerer....the programmer! It's all accomplished 'through the mind'. Through the once engineered established platens and circuitry. Today, it's the stem cells which are the extracted non-definitive living material into which we embed selective codes. Today, one could hypothetically erase the old certainties of identity and purpose inside the animated 'material' and overwrite upon it. Kinda like a false purpose. Black Dianetics?


    You know, I was just mucking around with something today. This idea in running Dianetics for OTs has a step where you check for copies. I never gave it much thought. Didn't bite. The clarification step, asking what the lifeforce was 'being' didn't bite much either. Then it came to mind what I saw earlier this week; the cloning of stem cells into which particular genes had been injected. By what magic could they instigate a cell to replicate....over and over. I was shocked by this.

    The old NOTS sessions included a search for any other overwhelmed life units which may have taken on and copied ( mirrored) a relevant trauma. I don't think I ever heard anyone say these cloned themselves in order to survive. Possibly the verb 'copy' could be more akin to 'replicate' as in giving birth to replicants under threat of extinction. Just sayin. It could explain why, throughout evolution, attacks on an organism made it regenerate in a 'changed' way, just emitting fresh building material.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  18. Cat Daddy

    Cat Daddy Silver Meritorious Patron

    Touch that penis, Thank you !

    Pavlov much ?
  19. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    Any chance that the artist has a mental fixation he is dramatizing....much.


  20. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hats, are you saying Parsons wrote this? :unsure: