ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Dianetics Revisited.

Discussion in 'L Ron Hubbard' started by guanoloco, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    No. I'm just chipping in my thoughts, taking off in a response to Gib and guanoloco's posts.

    And I don't think there were 270/240 real test cases either.

    I muddled through Dianetics Today and Science of Survival and tomes of bound PABs which are not cited any more. I really thought more would come of it. It just seemed to be dead ended. My opinion today is much like Mike Goldstein's. You can only really get at the issues relevant to the identity the person is in.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  2. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Yes, it's difficult to believe a chronic habitual liar who is a total dictator over his own cult.

    I would require the detailed data to be published in scientific peer reviewed publications and read what non-Scientologist psychologists have to say about it.
  3. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    In one of the Campbell/Heinlein letters, Heinlein wrote to Campbell saying he had a psychology friend in the Navy and Heinlein was willing to send him the gallery's or even get the Friend and Hubbard in touch with other, so as to add validity, do more testing or something like that, I'd have to go back and read them. Anyways, Campbell replied with a shore story on why Ron was not willing to do that, too funny. Also, Campbell in another earlier letter mentions to Heinlein that the data is in Ron's head, we have to get this book written. That implies no case studies as well. I wish somebody would start a tread on those letters, I can't right now.

    Campbell was really gung ho about Dianetics. He learned to audit and was auditing family and friends. He wrote several, several page long letters to Heinlein trying to get him onboard. I believe w/o Campbell, Dianetics would not have seen the light of day. I also believe Campbell helped Ron write that book.
  4. Hypatia

    Hypatia Pagan

    Makes me wonder if Hub was using his cult and the writings and all that to work out his own problems...
  5. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I think Hubbard believed his own shit, and sure, he tried to work out his own problems, which were not being "clear" and "ot"

    in the end he told Sarge he failed, and told Sarge he was not coming back and was going to circle a star to rehabilitate himself. LOL, he believed.

    Which totally aligns with S.I. Hayakawa review of hubbard scientology.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
  6. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    Jack Parsons wrote to Crowley praising Ron's ability to make direct connection with the ether or akasha or whatever medium the boys were toying with. What was it....Ron was supposed to be the most Thelemic person Parsons had ever known. So we have another friend charmed by Ron failing to persuade a peer of higher caliber. Campbell couldn't sway Heinlein.

    What makes you think Campbell helped Hubbard write the book? I must've missed something. All writers steal. I don't think Ron wrote as smoothly as Campbell. I was reading Battling Bolto last month and admired how fast the ideas were presented in the shortest of sentences. No flowery descriptives. Lots of verbs and dry humor. I hated DMSMH though. I never thought a lot of it was true back reading it at 17. It.gave power to all the wrong things molding the individual.personality.

    What's interesting is that people who were well off when getting Book One seemed to 'pop'. They got a subtle shift of viewpoint, separated out from the composite. I saw this happen often. It makes one wonder just how long everything was one. I can see Campbell being interested in such a subject though.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016
  7. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    To answer your question, because I read the letters between Campbell and Heinlein.

    You too can do the same, it'll cost you 2 bucks.

    It's pretty simple to get the file of letters. It's copyrighted so I can't copy it, letter for letter here on ESMB.

    If you read the letters between the two, we can have a conversation.

    As far a ether or aether or akasha, yah, I gots my views on that and stolen actually the Emerald tablets, which is where Napoleon Hill got his ideas from.

    Hubbard just retermed Aether or ether to Theta. And then added a n to theta to make it thetan, or soul or spirit, same thing. You gotta figure, to become source, you have to reterm words, which makes it harder to actually view source. That's what cult leaders do, reterm.

    All this ether or aether, I am not saying is true, all I am saying is source of the words that hubbard believed as true.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2016
  8. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    I back off on giving my credit card info to sites I'm not familiar with. But you're right 2 bucks is cheap.I think I will get my brother's :p I know you have been wanting to share comments on those letters. You plainly posted the site link to those letters a couple of times. It won't be til Monday though. You found no viruses and the files opened smoothly?. Will it be a zip file or pdf or what. It makes a difference which gadget I want to store and view the files on.
  9. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    nope, no viruses. I got the letters from my old windows XP which has no virus program, I haven't had a virus program for years. I have gotten a few virus's, but simply do a restore from a earlier point to get rid of the few virus's I did get.
  10. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader


    I found some comments on the letters
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Interesting, that review totally bypasses the correspondence between 1949-1951. The file I link above has 123 pages, and mostly about dianetics. I think I'm going to have to just start another tread reviewing those letters so as not to derail this tread unless it's ok with guanoloco.
  12. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased



    That's not the proper CSW format. How can I possibly circle "OK" or "Not OK" without the standard CSW format?

    Expect a pink slip for Cramming!

    PS. It's OK by me, lol.
  13. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    ...trouble is looks like peer review is sinking fast...

  14. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    OK, here we go on the Campbell/Heinlein letters. The letters are copyrighted so I'll do my best to provide snips of note.

    Letter dated Tuesday July 26, 1949 from Campbell to Heinlein. It's 8 pages long.

    snips from throughout the letter:

    "Ron Hubbard has been doing some highly important, original research, and is getting some extremely important results is psychiatric treatment. He's got a system of analysis that will do in five hours, a better job than the standard treatments do in 100 hours, and with it, has made some bewildering discoveries concerning the human brain and mind.

    First, his techniques is an improved system of hypnotic analysis, using age-regression and revivification techniques."

    "Ron has become convinced that there is no such thing as mental anguish, that the organism reacts solely to physical pain."

    "Quite so. Ron's gotten transcriptions of what the doctors, nurses, and the mother said at birth."

    "Semantics isn't, by any means, a sufficient term, Ron perfers perceptics---the proper interpretation of all sensory impressions."

    "Ron's in a rather unique way in his work. You know the old saying, Physician, heal tyself; Ron, as you may remember as of 1944, was a fairly good case for a psychiatrist."

    "Damit, the man's got something---and something big."

    "In essence, it's the old, standard psychoanalysis technigue---finding the incident that started the business. The difference is that Ron is using deep hypnosis, which makes directly available the full memory files, which makes eidetic recall possible, instead of trying to get the conscious mind of the subject to find an incident which, by its very nature, the conscious mind tends strongly to avoid."

    "I think Ron has, definitely, developed a highly important series of concepts, and an extremely useful technique."

    Heinlein replies back 1 August 1949 with a one page letter.

    Here is Heinleins response regarding Ron's work:

    "Your letter was most interesting re Ron's forays in therapeutic pschology. I have heard from him several times about such activities and am much interested and have asked many questions---but your letter has been a dern sight more informative then his letters. But he has promised me galleys of his work."


    There many more letters I'll post.
  15. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    "Ron's in a rather unique way in his work. You know the old saying, Physician, heal thyself; Ron, as you may remember as of 1944, was a fairly good case for a psychiatrist."

    And he remained so until 24 JAN 1986!
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
  16. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    opps, forgot one of your questions, it's a pdf file one saves their own hard drive. It was easy to get the file, comes thru on email. Believe me, I was very cautious at first as well.
  17. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    If one has read Evolution of a Science and Dianetics, and seen the early Dianetics campaign put on by Campbell in Astounding Sci Fi,

    and now reads these letters between Campbell & Heinlein, one could conclude that Campbell and Hubbard are one in the same to try to convince Heinlein to get onboard.

    There is a blog put on by SciWatcher, as he posts under that name at Tony O blog, but I can't find his site right now. It would parallel right now, but he is missing this data between Campbell & Heinlein.

    Anyways, I'll post the next set of letters tomorrow.
  18. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    The Dianetics that I recently read has all the added stuff removed. The online pdf I used to cut and paste comes up with a simple google search of "dianetics pdf". The pdf has an appendix of Campbell going waaaaay into depth about theories and scientific fact. It's more woo.

    Later, after Dianetics I think I read some about Campbell getting involved in some other woo stuff.
  19. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    Are the Campbell and Heinlein letters in this $2.99 Kindle?


    PS The Table of Contents was not included in the free sample I just read. The sample letters were interesting but none were written from or to Heinlein. They were written in 1956 -57 and were mostly written to Campbell by various readers asking him what had happened to Dianetics.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
  20. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I hope this isn't considered off-topic but my 2-cents comment, as one remark.

    Understanding the interaction between conscious and subconscious brain activity is one thing.
    Believing Hubbard's theories about Locks, Secondaries, and Engrams is quite another.

    I can go visit my college alma mater for nostalia.
    I notice that they have torn down and completely replaced the student center building.

    Consciously, I feel lose and I can complain that they did it all wrong. (False reasons)
    Subconsciously, "I can't visit my old academic home, dammit!" (The true reasons)

    The conscious part of my brain is trying to rationalize what my subconscious brain is feeding into the conscious part of my brain.
    The conscious rationalization is false... the subconscious influence is the real reason.