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Dianetics Revisited.

Discussion in 'L Ron Hubbard' started by guanoloco, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    If Ron could handle a case in an average of 100 hours/case then he would need 100 hours X 270 research subjects = 27,000 hours (not 2700 hours).

    In order for him to personally audit all of those people at 8 hours/day we would get:
    27,000 divided by 8 =3375 days (or 9.25 years)

    He'd have to audit for 9.25 years at 8 hours per day to handle the 270 research subjects. (assuming he audited every day, 7 days/week)

    If he only had 5 years with which to accomplish the same task it would have required him to be auditing 103 hours per week, every week.
  2. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    Regarding these 270/240 cases Hubbard talks about, maybe this is relevant:
    Iā€™m sure that Freudian analysis can work because I can make it work. In 1945 I ruined more cases for the United States Navy. I ruined cases left and right by finding guys out on a park bench and pulling some second-dynamic traumatic experience, you see.
    And then they were keeping records on the effect of hormones on 241 ex-prisoners of war and that sort of thing, you know? And of course, I had access to their records.
    So of course they were running a wonderful test program for me. It must have cost the government hundreds of thousands of dollars. And they would write down in the records how it affected the patient on this day and how it affected him on the next day. And, oh, these were beautiful statistical records, so all you had to do was alter the psychic attitude of the patient toward sex, then go look at the records a few days later, and of course you had the direct test of what you were doing.

    From Methodology Of Auditing Not Doingness - SHSBC taped lecture 4 August 1961

  3. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    I must've had a held down 7 somehwere....

    It's even worse than I thought!
  4. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    ok, I found the website. Scicritic has broken up the Dianetics in Astounding Science Fiction into 9 parts, here's part one:

    These letters between Heinlein and Campbell are the backdrop if you will for the release of Dianetics in Astounding.

    To continue with the letters, Campbell writes 3 letters to Heinlein:

    dated Sept 15, 1949 (8 pages long), November 4, 1949 (6 pages long), and November 29, 1949 (4 pages).

    Heinlein replies back 1 October 1949 (2 pages) in response to Campbells 3 letters.

    I'll have to snip each letter so as not to make a post too long. There's a lot.
  5. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    Logistically it's impossible for Hubbard to carry on this amount of activity - even to say that he didn't directly do the sole auditing then we need to consider the sheer amount of training and supervising others to do it - at any rate the amount of activity taking place and no one of his close associates being aware of it.

    Who and what paid for all of this? The 100 hours per case is very conservative given the time investment that is mentioned in Dianetics. I'd double that estimate as an average time involvement into a case as he mentions.

    Also, regarding Campbell, here's some interesting wikipedia material. This guy was a serious woo.

    Pseudoscience and fringe politics

    In the 1930s Campbell became interested in Joseph Rhine's theories about ESP (Rhine had already founded Parapsychology Laboratory at Duke University when Campbell was a student there), and over the following years his growing interest in parapsychology would be reflected in the stories he published when he encouraged the writers to include these topics in their tales, leading to the publication of numerous works about telepathy and other psionic abilities. His increasing tendencies would eventually start to isolate and alienate him from some of his own writers. He wrote favorably about such things as the "Dean drive", a device that supposedly produced thrust in violation of Newton's third law, and the "Hieronymus machine", which could supposedly amplify psi powers.

    In 1949, Campbell also became interested in Dianetics. He wrote of L. Ron Hubbard's initial article in Astounding that "It is, I assure you in full and absolute sincerity, one of the most important articles ever published." He also claimed to have successfully used dianetic techniques himself.

    Asimov wrote: "A number of writers wrote pseudoscientific stuff to ensure sales to Campbell, but the best writers retreated, I among them. ..." Elsewhere Asimov went on to further explain, "Campbell championed far-out ideas ... He pained very many of the men he had trained (including me) in doing so, but felt it was his duty to stir up the minds of his readers and force curiosity right out to the border lines. He began a series of editorials ... in which he championed a social point of view that could sometimes be described as far right (he expressed sympathy for George Wallace in the 1968 national election, for instance). There was bitter opposition to this from many (including me ā€“ I could hardly ever read a Campbell editorial and keep my temper)."​

    This was one of Ron's most serious cheerleaders and perhaps was influential in getting Winter and Purcell involved. It's not like Ron needed assistance in the huckstering business but Campbell was definitely predisposed to this stuff.

    Yet, he never mentions directly seeing anything happening around Hubbard - only relaying what Hubbard has told him. Perhaps Dianetics wouldn't have seen the light of day without Campbell?
  6. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Winter and a few others will be forthcoming in the letters.

    Campbell mentions seeing Ron in action, next letter I'll snip it. After reading these letters I'd agree, Campbell was instrumental, and as it turns out, Campbell was also just another pawn used by Hubbard.
  7. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    I have tried 6 times to pay the 2 bucks but the site won t let me check out without registering. I don't want to give the personal info in order to register. Phony info would not match my card so I can't give substitute info either.. The reason I don't want to register is that the info leaves the credit card vulnerable. Sorry taking so long.

    I see it comes through the email. I will go back.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
  8. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    yah, you have to register as the files come thru Email in PDF. I registered a few times as I wanted a few more files. No big deal, loose the paranoia, but I understand, I was paranoid at first as well.
  9. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Campbells letter Sept 15, 1949 - 8 pages long.

    "Dear Bob:-

    You haven't heard from me in some time, because I've been busy, and because the thing I most wanted to discuss was still incompletely digested, but I have enough of a hold on it to be able to give some coherent outline of it. It's Ron Hubbard's work, the new science of human thought which he calls dianetics- (Source: Greek for "thought").

    "Ron has been studying the human mind, in an informal, free lance way, since he started reading Freud, Jung and Adler at about 12 years old. He has, however, included in his calculations and considerations a study of Christian Science, Catholic Mircale-Shrines, voodoo practices, native witch doctor work, and the witch methods of European tradition as well as modern psychology's teachings."

    Campbell tells Bob the analogy of the human mind being a calculating machine and of unrealized capability.

    "Now we take off on Ron's work. Evidently the brain was eloved to serve a function---and the only function recognized by evolution is survival. The function of the brain is, then, to calculate solutions to life problems, and derive answers that promote survival. The one, overriding command that is built into human organisms is SURVIVE!"

    "that it must have four main drives.
    1. Personal security.
    2. Family security---sex, reproduction, etc.
    3. Group survival
    4. Race survival."

    "But he operating under "dark enchantments", as Ron once called them. And, by damn, that's precisely what they are? Technically, Ron calls them "impediaments"; they are the source of all aberrations in human thought and behaviour."

    "Certainly there is this. Ron can cure ulcers. He can cure asthma, arthritis, allergies, migrane headaches. He hasn't had time and opportunity to do all the research that is needed, but I firmly believe this techique can cure cancer. Any kind of cancer."

    "Now as to why it doesn't, and how to overcome the situation. We can start with General Semantics, which contains a large hunk of the basic truth, but fails because of a false axiom that has not been recognized. General Semantics holds, in brief, that sanity requires recognition of distinctions, differences, and enforced control over the thallamic-emotional reactions by the critical thoughtful processes. The famous cortico-thallamic pause. But it contains the hidden axiom "All psychologically important incidents occur during conscious awareness." The axiom is wrong; the correct axiom is that "All psychologically important incidents involve unconsciousness and pain."

    "To establish an impediment, two things are necessary---and only two things. 1. Unconsciouysness. 2. Physical pain. To make it a deep impediment that really sticks, a third may be added(as in our example) 3. Antagonism."

    Campbell goes on about everybody having a birth with pain and antagonism. Then he talks about his own birth with a cord wrapped around his neck and what happened.

    "Now. This stuff. I want to warn you most carefully is sheer essence of insanity. It is the root fiber of human thought. It is medicine so strong it will cure any form of insanity not rooted in organic lesions."

    "I have left out many details, and elided parts of thgis material; I have done so because it is too damned dangerous to toss around. I most solemnly assure you that, with the knowledge I now have, I could turn most ordinary people into homicidal maniacs within one hour."

    "I am now about 80% through with Ron's therapy; it has been slower than normal. because I am simultaneously being treated, and being trained as an operator. I have done some operating myself, and have watched Ron working on other cases."

    "Once you are cleared, Drive Three makes it impossible for you to act as a criminal---the good of the group takes precedence over your personal benefit."

    "This has been logish; I think you'll be interested. This is, I am certain, the greatest story in the world---far bigger than the atomic bomb, because this the story of controlling thought that controls atomic energy. It is a story that must be spread, though, and spread fast."

    Closing line by Campbell:

    "The problem today is very simple: Ron is the only fully-trained dianetics operator in the world, and even he doesn't know how to select and train new operators. He's practicing on me and a friend of mine. But damnit, Bob, right now the key to world sanity is in Ron Hubbard's head, and there isn't even an adequate written record!"
  10. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    Reading Campbell's letters makes me think LRH was a more convincing con artist than I have imagined.
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    yah. The next letter Campbell introduces to Heinlein the "first MD to be trained as an operator", tomorrows posting.

    Have you gotten the whole file to read?
  12. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    No, just the Kindle "sample" Campbell letters that have something about LRH and or Dianetics in them and your quotes. I have found Scientology history interesting ever since I read the TIME cover story in 1991. I plan to read more of the letters. It's fortunate that Perry Chapdelaine Sr and others have made these obscure letters available to read. In a 1956/57 Campbell letter he, Campbell wrote that it didn't start out as a cult but it had become one by that time. In a little later letter he wrote that Dianetics/Scientology was no more due to the the medical and psychiatry professions opposition. At the time he thought LRH's attempt to "protect" Dianetics/Scientology by calling it the Scientology Religion had failed.
  13. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    I registerd but don't have enough space on this google tablet left. Will download the links on galaxy note phone when home.

    This guy talks about Ron researching Dianetiics. He has lots of 3 minute vids and here describes what it was like to audit Ron. I'm guessing the time is around 1949-1950 cause he was trained at the Elizabeth Foundation. .Apparently the second book of correspondences with Isaac Azimov and A.E. Vogt is easier to get than the first book. He purchased everything through an Heinlein estate lawyer.

    In this vid Perry Chapdelaine says Campbell set up the New Jersey Foundation with his own furniture and taught Dianetics there weekly. Duh?

    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  14. AngeloV

    AngeloV Gold Meritorious Patron

    Campbell bought Hubbard's bullshit hook, line and sinker...just like I did at 19 years old.

    Hubbard made these pronouncements and stated them as 'facts' and 'science'. Some of the above statements are patently false...curing ALL cancer? LOL ONLY incidents involving unconsciousness and pain are psychologically important? So incidents of elation, accomplishment and achievement have no influence on a persons life?

    The information is so dangerous that he won't discuss it in the letter? He can create a homicidal maniac in an hour but just talking to him? LOL

    Dianetics is and always will be snake oil.
  15. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    That one is very interesting (and short too :)). Perry says he audited Hubbard on some History of Man stuff: it wasn't at all like the auditing he had been taught in that Hubbard basically just ran himself, no meter, no notes of the session. Then the next day gave a lecture on it. Perry thinks most of Hubbard's research auditing was on himself, not on others.

    That session sounds similar in character to the April 1952 session where Hubbard was "audited" by Mary Sue on a meter (Electropsychometric Scouting: Battles of the Universes). Mary Sue calls out random reads and Hubbard goes off on whatever gets associated with whatever he just thought of a moment ago. People here who have been audited on "earlier-similars" stretching back trillions of years without restraint will appreciate how undisciplined this is, even within the formal structure of a set of commands. When there isn't even the nominal discipline of formal commands to somewhat direct one's attention, well, anything can come to mind, especially when that mind is as disturbed as Hubbard's in the first place. And then he issues his imaginings as the definitive history of mankind!

  16. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    The next letter from Campbell is 6 pages long dated November 4, 1949 (Heinlein did not reply back to the last letter).

    "Dear Bob:-

    It's doubly hard to keep correspondence at this point; it's amazing how dianetics plus running a magazine consumes time. And in Ron's case, the dianetics alone takes care of most of his time.

    Ron's busy---and weary, God knows. He's still working with me, and with a friend of mine, and has a third case on hand as well. The third one is an MD, the first MD to be trained as a dianetics operator as well as an endocrinologist. Ron's work is important; he's already got strings out that should lead to national results directly, and international results shortly thereafter. But dianetics takes time.

    The usual therapy session is from 2 to 3 hours, the therapy is more than somewhat of a nerve strain---for the operator as well as the patient, ............."

    "The man I've been working over myself is pretty high drive and high IQ. He's a successful engineer with Western Electric. And his case is purple-plated doozey."

    Campbell goes on to explain dianetics much like in diantics book.

    "Getting somebody to go into an incident sounds easy; it ain't."

    Campbell goes on to explain why this is.

    "But anyhow, I've been busy. Ron's been busy. Sara's been busy. And there's no no date assignable to the completion and publication of the Operator's Manual and/or the textbook."

    "This is really a hell of a trap. I'm helping on a couple cases now, waiting to finish the clearing process myself, and have four cases already lined up."

    "Hell, you met Rusty---the de Camp's small son. A fine neurotic a building there. There are two more in the Farms like him, that I know how to make whole, and sane, and happy."

    "The knowledge is a trap. You have to use it; it's like being a doctor and walking by a guy who's been run over by a car and had both legs broken. But an average tough case takes 150 hours; the ones most worth saving are the high-drive, high intelligence individuals, just the ones that take longest, are hardest to work on. They may take 300 to 400 hours. But clearing one high -drive high-intelligence individual will cause more righting of the world's wrongness than clearing 10 low-drive individuals."

    "It's hard on MD's and psychologists, because the whole science of medicine has to be rewritten, and of course the psychologists and psychoanalysists are going to be shown for what they have been---so stupidly conservative that no real changes in psychoanalytic theory has been developed in half a century!"

    "Bob, can you, right now, hear what my voice sounds like? Mentally hear the tones?Can you, similarly, see what our house looks like---or what I look like as a mental picture in color?"

    "Remember your argument against eidetic memory in "Beyond This Horizon"? Wrong---on two counts. 1. You---and everyone---have eidetic memory. 2. The filing system of the brain is so unimaginably perfect that it can find any datum almost instantaneously from any mass of facts, no matter how great."

    "Until you're been there in therapy, that stuff sound so fantastic, so utterly implausible, that it isn't remotely credible. I've been there. Bob, I give you my assurance that I have picked up, and gotten powerful emotional charge from memories of sounds and words from before my mother knew she was pregnant."

    This is the second last line in closing by Campbell:

    "Come visit us sometime, Bob, and I'll show you how to get data to blackmail the hell out of parents---blackmail the hell out of them so they back down and behave like human beings instead of the high and mighty and perfect."
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2016
  17. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I'll give my commentary on that letter and some letters before.

    Here we have the beginnings of psychology/psych's being the enemy. And we also have the famous "making the able more able"
  18. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    That's the DB/Big Being and "theta endowment" crap right there. I'm certain Campbell was well endowed!
  19. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Remember the tom cruise video about an accident, and only a scientologist could help. The secret one that was leaked.
  20. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    Sorry, I'm exasperated. When I returned home I got out a CC and found I had 3 other attached checking accounts going through that bank. Too risky. I purchased a prepaid to do the Heinlein checkout. The site refused it as it doesn't have a billing address to match that card # in the ether files.. Whaaaa.