ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Did Hub have any original, good, ideas?

Discussion in 'L Ron Hubbard' started by Veda, May 13, 2018.

  1. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

  2. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Were service facs original with Hubbard? I admit I liked service facs. And I have seen evidence since leaving scn that they actually exist. But I don't know if he thought this up or swiped it from somewhere.
    Emma likes this.
  3. Emma

    Emma Con te partirĂ² Administrator

    I like serfacs too. I also like the overt motivator sequence & ARC triangle. All useful and (I think) original.
  4. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    I no longer know what was original and what was not (and no longer care) but I do know that if the day to day 'tek' is taken too seriously (and used) it can cause introversion and what I now believe to be a kind of mental illness that very quickly isolates the user from non-believers or what I call normal people.

    As a scientologist life can easily become a constant 'ser fac' because a fully functioning scientologist is always quite certain that they are 'right' and non-believers are (therefore) automatically wrong.

    Being a scientologist is like living in a stressful, ignorant bubble of self-righteousness and when it finally bursts it's exhilarating (well, it was for me).

    Allowing myself to be wrong and have faults was fantastic, lol.

    I see the ARC triangle as just another sales technique (scientology and the world in general is full of them) ... a way of manipulating or 'handling' people. It may still 'work' (though not as it did years ago because people are generally more savvy these days) but it's contrived and if used to form relationships they would then need to be constantly massaged, if they were to be maintained or to grow.

    I'd rather things be allowed to evolve (or not) naturally.
    Operating DB, pineapple and Type4_PTS like this.
  5. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Same with me. Hubbard ripped off so many others without crediting their work I really have no idea as to what of his ideas were original.

    I like the concept of CSW's (Completed Staff Work) but that was lifted from the military:

    The 'Best of the Sole Source Myth' thread exposes a lot of what was ripped off:
  6. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Yes, I liked CSW's too ... I actually liked quite a lot of the basic admin tech ... most of it would be irrelevant nowadays though (due to the advent of computer tech) but it did put order into things and forced people to be super organised and efficient (on the surface anyway) and I liked that at the time because I don't like working surrounded by chaos or chaotic people.

    As with everything cultic though even the admin tech was riddled with punishments, head games and fear tactics (comm evs, investigations, stat crashes, conditions, the ever present threat of being RPF'd or declared etc). Staff were ruthlessly exploited as they chased their tails trying to achieve hubbards dream (and real aim) of making him money, money and more money.


    Many of us had to learn how to gently jiggle our stats in order to remain in good standing and maybe even get the occasional fortnightly saturday off!

    phenomanon and Type4_PTS like this.
  7. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

  8. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    I look at the thread, "Cult indoctrinated Taryn Rinder Teutsch to attack Mike Rinder full time", and I wonder why it is important to find some original good thing that hubbard came up with when he left behind a body of teachings that can turn a man's daughter into what they turned Taryn and so many others into.

    People learn lessons from living their lives. Why should hubbard get any credit for anyone's lessons but his own?
    Operating DB and FoTi like this.
  9. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    When looking at any individual from a historical perspective I think it's important to look at the positive things as well as the negative. Otherwise the picture one paints will be distorted due to ones bias. If one looks only for the negative aspects then that's all you'll find. But to truly understand someone you've got to look at both.

    That said, for a couple reasons I would never recommend to any person to go searching for the raisins in the pile of sh*t that he created over his lifetime. Not because there aren't any, but because he tended to mix some evil stuff into anything good. And there is so much other incredible mental and spiritual "tech" out there in the world I don't see why one would bother to study Hubbard when even he acknowledged at the end that he had failed, and when he couldn't even resolve his OWN mental and spiritual issues.

    Anyone with a IQ higher than that possessed by a turnip would not go to a plumber if the plumber's own home has serious water leaks and other plumbing issues throughout, nor should one use a doctor if that doctor is the poster child for ill health himself. So why seek help on mental and spiritual issues from someone who's final solution was having Sarge create a special e-meter that would have fried him had it been built to specifications as requested?
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  10. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    I got a lot out of it. How much of it was Hubbard I will never know. The other thing is that a tiny dose goes a looong way because all of it was immediately slanted to manipulate and deceive, such being Hubbard.

    It's tainted.
    FoTi likes this.
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    this picture reminds me of Hubbards KSW rhetorical policy letter we all had to read and word clear and clay demo, many times. Somebody shoot me for doing that, LOL Talk about brainwashing! Number of times over equals certainty = brainwashing, laughing, yep

    Anyways, Hubbard's written transcribed speech KSW of paraphrasing now here, how Hubbard said stone idols in the east didn't lead to a correct technology. And here we have Hub's putting hisself in stone, no doubt at every mission, org, Sea Org place we have pictures of Hub on the walls and busts too.


    Fuck you Ron

    No clears, no OT's, your stone idols are a failed technology. As well as your rhetoric, PR and Marketing technology.

    I think Jason Beghe explains the "certainty" concept very well:

    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  12. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Hmm! I am thinking... thinking.
    Maybe 3 original items might be "Almost run over by a train on Venus", whole track "cat bodies", and "Xenu story"?

    Aren't Service Facs just a manifestaion of "Confirmation Bias"? (Nothing original.)

    (BTW, did the Xenu story start by Nibs doing auditing while under the influence of LSD?
    Please correct me if I am wrong about believing this claim.)
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    FoTi likes this.
  13. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Programmer_guy said:
    "Service facsimile" actually has 2 meanings in scn:
    1. A disability the person uses to help him survive, e.g. his bad leg gets him sympathy. LRH explains this as an engram the person keeps in restimulation, hence the word "facsimile." This is the earlier definition.
    2. A computation the person uses to make self right and others wrong, to help him survive and damage the survival of others, or to escape domination and dominate others, e.g. "I'm smarter than everyone else," "Nobody understands me." These are the service facs listed for on Grade IV. IMO this is the more common meaning.

    Can you explain why you feel this is covered by "confirmation bias"? I'm not saying it isn't, just I don't understand how you figure it is.

    Programmer_guy said:
    You may be thinking of the claim that "History of Man" was the stuff Nibs came up with when LRH fed him speed.

    I'm sure drugs played a role in the creation of OT III (LRH wrote to Mary Sue that he was "doing lots of pinks and greys and drinking lots of rum") but I don't think Nibs was involved.
  14. screamer2

    screamer2 Idiot Bastardson

    The carnival conman extradordinare LRH had a lot of ideas. All conmen do. It's how they ply their trade. Of course LRH had some ideas that were good. However, the ideas he had that were good must be taken in isolation from the morass of his other 'work' because when combined with the toxic soup of what he had 'developed' with dianetics and scientology for instance they likewise were turned to poison.

    So yes. And no.
    Dave B. and Little David like this.
  15. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    It is, in actuality, unknown as to what of "the tech" Hubbard himself actually, originally came up with.

    Factual evidence and events demonstrates that he plagiarized mercilessly . . . .

    But, there is one bright idea published by him that could have been his own observation . . . and that was the "Tech Breakthrough of 1973" . . . the subject relating to the phenomena that "wrong indications (and wrong whats, whys, etc.) cause psychosis."

    The bad news being that, while it was gazetted as the breakthrough of breakthroughs . . . the tech point was then ruthlessly neglected and not at all used to help folks but instead actually run on folks destructively . . .

    Just have a look at the cult's constant MO of the practice of heaping invalidation and evaluation with wrong indications and false statements as to what is onto folks. And, once they have turned individuals into being an "enemy" (even if only in their eyes in the beginning, which is also in the nature of a wrong indication at the time) then, all the lies they heap on the person is just more of the destructive application of what should be a helpful tech point.
  16. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

    Well... you know that there are no wrong indications when it comes from Source. Just everyone else is out-ethics, has misunderstoods, needs more clay.

    Git it right the first time!

  17. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    What utter nonsense! A normal (non cultic) reasonably well balanced and sane person doesn't become psychotic due to "wrong indications and evaluation" Roger. Normal people are mentally stronger than that and usually have had to learn how to cope without having a "therapist/auditor" on hand to babysit them through life ... true character is formed that way and always has been.

    People in the real world don't live in an imaginary protective bubble surrounded by others who also believe in hubbards theories, as scientologists do.

    I agree with you that scientologists (including your lot) are very susceptible to introversion and various mental problems perhaps including psychosis ... possibly because they are always on the lookout for them (both in themselves and others) either when in session ... or when going about their lives in general.

    Life as a scientologist is one big "issue".

    Hubbard was just running a business and that business was based on "fixing the mental and spiritual issues of others in exchange for large amounts of money" ... whether they had those issues or not (and whether he plagiarised the tek or not).


    Most normal people seem to accept that life isn't perfect and they get on with it, working things out as they go. They are not trying to "clear themselves" of anything or eradicate hubbards spiritual entities or invisible friends ... that could certainly send someone into psychosis and has done in the past (fact).
    Operating DB and Churchill like this.
  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    L. Ron Hubbard personally came up with Auditing a distinct and unique form of counseling which can be used to undo EII (emotionally induced illness) psychosomatic illness, improve response time and otherwise improve and enhance awareness, and no other spiritual teacher has ever devised a system which has made exteriorization so readily accessible tp so many.
  19. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    And then some of us aren't "normal" but have "a taste for the infinite" in DeRopp's words and pursue esoteric and transcendent realities through such things as gnostic mystic christianity and or a Church of American Science study of the work of L. Ron Hubbard and his colleagues etcetera...
    Koot likes this.
  20. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Wow, that's amazing! Would you please describe the cloths I am wearing (at the time you read this) as well as my surroundings?