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Did Hub have any original, good, ideas?

Discussion in 'L Ron Hubbard' started by Veda, May 13, 2018.

  1. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Two auditors from London Org went to Flag at different times for training while Hubbard was there and both came back looking shell-shocked and confused. Ultimately they both blew scientology, and what happened at Flag had much to do with it IMO.

    Neither of them said very much about what they saw while they were away, but I could tell that all was not well as they were both close friends of mine. With hindsight that's not really surprising since they were witnessing elderly people being thrown over the side of the ship into the filthy water in the harbour.
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
    dchoiceisalwaysrs likes this.
  2. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    No - you are omitting a trove of info. If you look up on the upper left hand corner of his stuff is a listing of whom it is intended for. He wrote a lot of stuff that was BPI (Broad Public Issue) but there was plenty that was not. For example, there are some policies about the SO#1 line that most staff could not read - it was for the LRH coms only. There are a lot of R-6 materials that you had to be on the BC or above to read. The GO and later OSA had a bunch that were not available to the public, such as TR-L ( Training Routine Lying) The tech and policy vols are famously incomplete - there was stuff in the first version that was not in the second version. And there was plenty that is restricted and not published in the vols.

    Then there were LRH EDs ( blue on white) and there was the SO org only Flag Orders ( black on white) and there were the LRH advices. On the tech lines there were HCOBs on the OT levels, the Class 8 C/S book. Only certain auditors can read the Dianetic clear information.

    He did not make it all available to the public. To think so is myoptic. Hubbard was rather two faced - he put out "if it's not in writing, it's not true" and "There's no hidden data line" and yet there was plenty that was not available to the public. There was plenty that was not available to general staff. He did not believe in transparency. He ran things on a need to know basis. How many staff would have gone along with Operation Snow White were it BPI? Or the stuff they did to Paulette Cooper? No - it was only available to certain GO staff because it was way out PR.

    Here's a perfect example - After Scientology got shellacked for it's fair game policy and going after people in a particularly nasty way, he famously canceled fair game, but careful reading of the policy, shows that the use of the term Fair Game was canceled, but the practice of fair game in still in use to this very day. I, myself was fair gamed only a few years ago. It happens.

    So Scientology is schizophrenic to say the least, and what you see is not what you get. And! You will observe, I have omitted all the stuff Miscavage has done.

    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  3. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

  4. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    And out of the 400+ students at Flag how many of them were there for the FEBC training? :unsure:
  5. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    They can also be Fabrications without Observations.
    Dave B. and phenomanon like this.
  6. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Plus all the culling and cutting out of 'Ron' or '*' that Sea Org members did. I forget if that was done at Int Base or elsewhere. If I recall correctly it took days or weeks to do this and 100's if not thousands of documents where 'redacted' or altered to hide the connection to LRH. It would be great if someone could come forth with some more detail as to what was on some of those.
  7. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Something was posted on this forum about this years ago and it involved the Guardians Office. If I can find it will add the link later.
  8. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

    Know anyone who fits this description?

  9. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    I remember a senior c/s getting flag trained and coming back and quickying everyone up the grade chart. I think flag reflected command intention (insanity), so you had to get down to the mission level to find scientology actually working.
  10. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!


    350 TTC (tech training corps) staff students
    50 public students


    (In the 80's, there was always more ttc sudents going to Flag than public - I'd say the ratio was something around 4\1)
    All our OEC\FEBC, auditors, CS, where staff dispatched at Flag for training

    Most of the public going to Flag were essentially pc\OT and qual. Actually I can't remember any org student going to Flag for courses.
    I never ever encounter a public who paid to get this training.
    We knew at that time it was almost impossible to set a private practice with professional auditing as there was a huge effort from the org to suppress those '' regarded as suspicious'' activities at that time, especially when one was getting good result and more PC than the org.
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  11. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    They were all there doing FEBC. I don't know how many
    others were doing other training as they would have been
    in different course rooms.
  12. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    OK, that's what I thought you meant from the original exchange between Mimsey and yourself. (I added a snip of a partial screenshot below).

    You were using that 400+ figure in your exchange with Mimsey to show evidence of an expansion of a Scientology organization. While I presume that this did help out Flag it doesn't really reflect a true expansion of Scientology, as these students were just staff shipped in from other orgs.

  13. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    That was 1980? There had been expansion up to that
    time or thereabouts. There clearly has been a severe decline
    since then.
  14. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    The wikipedia article doesn't even mention dianetics or scientology. Even though past life regression didn't take off in popularity until after the early 80s schism, when people like Larry West started studying hypnotism. But almost none of the practitioners advertised they were once in scientology.
  15. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I don't know, I was going by what you said in your post, which was 1980.

    I can't recall exactly what year it was but know it was in the early 80's.

    And for sure Scientology was busier during certain periods. Many left after the Mission Network was raped and pillaged, and then again I believe since the early 90's there's been a continual decline.

    Personally though, I would think that IF Scientology REALLY worked as promised, creating Clears and OT's as promised, that a CEO of at least average skills in the business world (non-Scientology) would be able to create a successful business within 20 years which was delivering services to millions of people each and every year. If that same CEO was able to hire employees at the rate of $50.00/week for 90+ hours of work, and provide no medical insurance, no retirement plan, very few other benefits, and was tax exempt, it would be much faster!

    Scientology claims to be infinitely more valuable than a college education. But just last year a local university near me, University of South Florida less than an hour drive from Flag had over 40,000 students. So 400 people in a course room at the same time isn't so impressive IMO.
  16. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    It's possible that Scientologists increased its popularity in modern times, but as far as I know it's just another piece of tech that Hubbard got from someone else without properly crediting them.

    Past life regression has been being done since ancient times, so its not a result of any new discovery by Hubbard.

    Whether hypnotists were doing it prior to 1950 I don't know for sure, but wouldn't be surprised due to the nature of their work. But just don't have time to research it at the moment.
  17. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    Past Life Regression was the biggest "suck" of the Dianetics in the early 1950's.
    Some dn'ists use the term as a regging tool. " Nothing in this lifetime is big enough to mess you up.
    lotus and programmer_guy like this.
  18. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    That's an interesting comment.
    IIRC, (correct me if I am wrong) DMSMH does not get into past lives.

    The DMSMH basic-basic engram occurred during birth experience or maybe a little before that in the womb (failed abortion attempt).
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  19. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    I think it was only researched back to when you were a gleam in your Daddy's eye.
  20. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    I though it was research only back to when you were ''projected'' out of your daddy's scrotum to race like hell , among 500,000,000, to win the free ticket to penetrate your moma egg.

    And, that makes you the faster runner and such a winner! :cool: