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For Truth's sake ...

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Me and My Self, Jun 30, 2019.

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  1. Me and My Self

    Me and My Self Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn

    (in reply to this post - sorry still struggling with the "quote" function)

    "A Venezuelan dictator once decided to stop leprosy. He saw that most lepers in his country were also beggars. By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all the beggars in Venezuela an end was put to leprosy in that country."(LRH - Science of Survival, p.170-171)

    The paragraph cited above is just (another) one of LRHs outright (and historically careless) half-lies.

    Although is true that people suffering leprosy were quarantined, it is absolutely false that they were "destroyed"!!! (even though it is sadly true that they were hunted and forcefully caught on the streets to be transferred to the hospital facilities ...)

    Moreover, (and unless LRH considered Simon Bolivar to be a dictator?) the original idea goes as far as 1828 when the Libertador promulgated a decree for the creation of the first hospital for about 1000 leprosy patients, on the Providencia island (Zulia state).

    Later on, in 1906, dictator Cipriano Castro ordered to build another such facility on another island, located in the Vargas department (Isla de Cabo Blanco), where late Dr. Jacinto Convit researched and discovered the vaccine which allowed him to eradicate definitively leprosy from this country.

    They even had their own currency created.

    As of today, still some of the recovered patients are alive and well.

    Bolivar's alleged aim was in fact reported as "saving these people from indigence and from a continuous rejection they suffered by society".

    More info:
    Dr. Jacinto Convit's bio
    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacinto_Convit

    An article giving a brief summary of the whole evolution of leprosy containment,treatment and eradication in Venezuela
    http://www.quepasa.com.ve/investigacion/lepra-el-mal-biblico-que-se-curo-en-venezuela/
    https://www.academia.edu/22008361/L...da_cotidiana_bajo_la_mirada_de_Jacinto_Convit

    So:
    "Why" would LRH need to "point fingers" ("innocently" dropping those sentences as a side comment just at the end of that long paragraph ...) as to justify his own terribly genocidal "solution"?
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/scapegoatism

    :(;)

    P.S. After some deliberation about whether it was appropriate to reply to that thread without formal "intro" (been lurking for a while and joined yesterday BECAUSE of that outrageous info I couldn't obviate) I just decided to merge the whole and let it flow.

    Not yet ready for a thorough presentation, still stuck a decade ago in that Apollo thread - trying to figure out if the rest of TMT's Chronicles was finally posted ... anyway I also want to give much thanks from the bottom of my heart to many of you and especially to the creators and moderators of this Board.

    Yes I am an ex-Scn. Thanks again for being around and persist. <3

    (BTW a question: where is that "Guestbook" located? (if any) Read it mentioned somewhere but couldn't find it. Thanks in advance!):)
     
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  2. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    I would suggest using "Reply" (with the bent arrow next to it). Much easier to use. "Quote" used to be called "Multi-quote" and is primarily for when you want to quote more than one post at a time.
    I don't think the guestbook is still with us. It used to be possible to post without actually becoming a member and your posts would appear as "Guest." We migrated to a new server/new software a couple years ago and AFAIK you can't do that anymore.

    Thanks for the info re the Venezuelan lepers. Welcome aboard!
     
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  3. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    I've been wondering about that. I don't see a donate button, nor any advertising on the site. How is it financially supported? Annual donation drives, or what?
     
  4. Me and My Self

    Me and My Self Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn

    Thank you very much for the above useful info :heartflower: (haven't been on a forum board in years, LOL) It worked!:dance:
    And thank you also for your warm welcome! Indeed very glad to be here. :grouphug:
     
  5. Me and My Self

    Me and My Self Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn

    I have the same question as well. :questions:

    Edited: Typed "donations" in the search box and found a 2010 thread in the Pubilc Announcements, and a more "recent one" (2017) about ESMB yearly Fundraiser. Will keep researching.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  6. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Somewhere around November, Emma puts up a please donate thread. It usually only takes a day or so to collect the needed funds.

    Paul
     
  7. This is NOT OK !!!!

    This is NOT OK !!!! Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thanks for the history lesson and welcome to the board!

    We happily just click along here nattering away. Every blue moon or so Emma or one of the mods puts on a donation drive that sells out in a snap!

    ESMB is a unique resource and treasure. I highly suggest having a look at the Featured Threads.
     
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  8. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    Thanks, Paul. I'll make sure to chip in when she runs the next fundraiser.
     
  9. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Welcome.

    Here's some background that might explain some of Hubbard's attitudes.

    Hubbard spoke in some detail about his "very good friend," Aleister Crowley, during the Philadelphia Doctorate Course lectures of 1952. That a long story by itself, so I'll just include this snippet of correspondences between Crowley writings and and Hubbard's.

    From Crowley's 'The Book of the Law' and from his 'Commentary on The Book of the Law'.


    [​IMG]
    Self portrait by Aleister Crowley


    [​IMG]
    Blood red: The same color as the Tech Volumes.


    From the Introduction of 'The Book of the Law':

    III

    THE LAW OF THELEMA

    This Book lays down a simple Code of Conduct.

    "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."



    From the main text of 'The Book of the Law':

    We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit; let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of Kings: stamp down the wretched and the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world...

    The Kings of Earth shall be the Kings forever: the slaves shall serve.

    Them that seek to entrap thee, to overthrow thee, them attack without pity or quarter; and destroy them utterly.

    _________

    From 'The Book of the Law':

    Mercy be off: damn them who pity! Kill and torture; spare not; be upon them!

    Commentary:

    An end to the humanitarian mawkishness which is destroying the human race by the deliberate artificial protection of the unfit...

    What has been the net result of our fine 'Christian' phrases? In the good old days there was some sort of natural selection; brains and stamina were necessary to survival. The race, as such, consequently improved. But we thought we knew, oh! so much better, and we had 'Christ's law' and other slush, so the unfit crowded and contaminated the fit...

    Should we not rather breed humanity for quality by killing off any tainted stock? And exterminating the vermin who infect it...


    ___________

    From 'Science of Survival: Prediction of Human Behavior' - by L Ron Hubbard, 1951:

    The reasonable man quite ordinarily overlooks the fact that people from 2.0 down have no traffic with reason and cannot be reasoned with as one would reason with a 3.0. There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the tone scale , neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the tone scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes .

    The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow. Adders are safe bedmates compared to people on the lower bands of the tone scale. Not all the beauty nor the handsomeness nor artificial social value nor property can atone for the vicious damage such people do to sane men and women. The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the tone scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered. It is not necessary to produce a world of clears in order to have a reasonable and worthwhile social order; it is only necessary to delete those individuals who range from 2.0 down, either by processing them enough to get their tone level above the 2.0 line — a task which, indeed, is not very great, since the amount of processing in many cases might be under fifty hours, although it might also in others be in excess of two hundred — or simply quarantining them from the society.

    A Venezuelan dictator [Juan Vincente Gomez] once decided to stop leprosy. He saw that most lepers in his country were also beggars. By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all the beggars in Venezuela an end was put to leprosy in that country.



     
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  10. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    .



    A Scientology dictator [L. Ron Hubbard] once decided to stop whistleblowing. He saw that most whistleblowers
    in his cult were also SPs. By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all
    the SPs in Scientology an end was put to truth in that cult.


    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  11. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    :welcome2:
     
  12. Me and My Self

    Me and My Self Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn

    Veda
    Thank you SO much for your detailed reply!
    Thank you for pointing out which venezuelan dictator was LRH referring to. Gómez overthrew Castro's in 1908, and though I couldn't find any reference of him factually "destroying" beggars/lepers (which, given his sanguinary behavior could be somewhat possible) I did found out a legend - which maybe LRH used as source for his comment -
    reported in the book "Argentina y otras crónicas" written by Tomás Eloy Martínez.

    The chapter where it is mentioned can be found here:
    https://elpais.com/diario/2004/02/03/opinion/1075762808_850 215.html

    I translated the said paragraph:

    "Few, among the countless tyrannies suffered by Latin America during the last 100 years, have left a wake so fertile of legends as that of Juan Vicente Gómez, who governed Venezuela from 1908 until his death, in 1935. Dictatorships stimulate fear, distrust, silence. And, by closing all the roads by which intelligence expresses itself, they also unleash imagination.
    Among those legends there is one that I heard repeated till exhaustion when I lived in Caracas. Shortly before dying ofold age - like almost all tyrants - Gomez would have received the news that Pope Pius XI would travel to meet him. When he was told that the pontiff's arrival was imminent, he gathered all the beggars and crazy people who wandered through the cities, he locked them in a merchant ship and then after leaving them food and alcohol for a week, launched the ship to the high seas, where it was lost forever.
    Many people believed in that story and even I thought it was probable. Over time, however, I knew that Gomez was miserly, and that he would never have squandered money on human beings."

    Summarizing: they weren't literally destroyed ... but it is true there were segregated and practically left to die on those islands, men, women and children in chains and under police surveillance. From mid-XVI century until 1938 when Dr. Convit's started his lifelong dedicated battle, which finally brought them the vaccine, 50 years later.
    Thanks to the Armadillo :)

    :carryon:
    Ok so for the record (by now): I went into Co$ 30 years ago and left 2.5 years after. Finished Class IV Internship and was about to start Class V. Heartbroken, after 2.5 full-time public AND staff years, witnessing so much inconsistencies. It took me a whole year to recover and go on with my wog life ...

    Or so thought I.
    I still felt I was part of the group and kept a few good friends there, I managed to end dutifully my 2.5 contract and left in good standing.

    Around 2007 and thanks to the Internet I stumbled upon the Clambake site, Lisa Mc Pherson's story, some of the LRH lies and the Crowley connection, among others. For several months I was astounded, infuriated, feeling betrayed, reading all the materials I could get hold of. I read much of Crowley's books, which I found interesting (I had been in an Hermetic group for 6 years just before commuting to Scn - funny enough there was a sign at the Org, "join the
    strongest group and make it grow" that did the trick ...) I hadn't made the parallel though, thanks for the snippets!

    Thank you again, Veda, for mentioning the PDC which transcripts I found here:
    Philadelphia Doctorate Course Lectures
    https://stss.nl/stss-materials/English/Tapes Transcripts/EN_BW_CR_Philadelphia_Doctorate_Course__PDC.pdf

    Now I'm on for a thousand+ pages to read along with the Apollo thread OMG:overreact:

    Found this quote while searching the above PDF for the Crowley's references.

    Ch. 40 - Games/Goals lecture transcript (p.12 & PDC p.680)
    "Now, if you’re going to have rules, if you’re going to have a game, you’ve got to have rules. And if you’ve got rules, they must be obeyed. An… a rule which is not obeyed, or is obeyed just some of the time, or is so bad that it can’t be obeyed all of the time, it shouldn’t be there at all! And a game which has no rules has no game. It’s chaos. No alignment. Nobody to agree on anything or… so on. After
    you’d won something you’d never want it, you see; there couldn’t be a goal in it. So it has to be some sort of an agreement."

    This (after the fact) and initially the well-ordered, neatly organized, "gradiently" sequenced two-way "bridge" (I was a bit tired of searching for truth "going in endless circles" at the Hermetic venture) seemed to be in sync with my path and turned off my alarm system (or at least lowered its volume big time).

    "It’s only when the agreements become compulsions on individuals that the game gets very upsetting. And a piece then degenerates into a broken piece, and it… nothing is making any sense to him. He knows it’s no fun. He isn’t a participant, really, he’s just kind of used. And nobody really wants him or needs him. One of the things your broken piece asks continually, he asks to be needed. He wants to be wanted. He gets way down scale, and he hits that bad. That’s sub-zero on the tone scale. Imagine having to be needed!"

    I didn't need to be needed though, but I really wanted to help because I knew I could be of value for the purpose. But there were too many lies surfacing and contradicting what I perceived to be the Truth. It stopped making sense.

    Maybe this second paragraph of the Games quote was (one of) LRH's self-fulfilling prophecies. Too much compulsiveness exerted upon good-willing people. And him "wanting to be needed"...

    Thanks again for all the comments and replies! :bighug:

    HelluvaHoax!, your sig+avatar made me laugh for sure! And I have been tempted to do so, several times indeed ... However those books are too beautiful to do so ... but I confess giving away the soft cover ones to a garage sale, and thereafter feeling soooo guilty as someone could inadvertently be attracted to the Co$ because of them ... that would indeed be an overt ... :unsure:

    :byefly:
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  13. Me and My Self

    Me and My Self Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn

    Forgot to add this (just in case).
    My question at the end ("Why" would LRH need to "point fingers" etc.) was because the "dictator paragraph" IMO didn't add anything to his long previous statement on how to dispose of lower-toned beings (which stood well by itself) ... it seemed to me that it was a way to turn the attention (and responsibility of such a radical view) towards someone else ("he did it first so it is ok") and/or maybe subtly inducing in the reader, at the same time, the picture of himself as a dictator (willingly or not).

    This subject BTW goes much deeper ... will search the Board to see if it has already been discussed.
    Thanks for the welcome!
     
  14. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Welcome...

    Nice Op.
     
  15. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    The PDC's were 1952. They are supposed to be OT stuff.

    It's all bullshit.

    He changed his tune after that.

    OMG, black and white processing and whole track ridge running = not true.

    No clears or OT's.
     
  16. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you,

    I was already familiar with these writings of "The Wickedest Man in England"

    I, of course, hold with the Judeochristian belief which does hold with firm treatment of wrongdoers but compassion for the weak and infirm. Red flags went off in my mind when I first encountered the cited passage from SOS; the most glaring of several defects in what is nonetheless one hell of a book.
     
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  17. Me and My Self

    Me and My Self Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn

    Wu-Wei ...(*)
    Thank you! :)

    Had been pondering about asking you what was your take on said passage, given your high opinion about SOS (which I read in other threads around the board while looking for a possible already open discussion about it ... )

    Only found the "Scientology = Fascism?" thread, however (and as I mentioned above, the subject goes much deeper) I had thought to explore (rather, beyond Scn) how it may relate to "the dark side" we all possess (Jungian Shadow) and how (or IF, that is, consciously) was LRH getting hold of his readers/subjects ON PURPOSE by means of all his knowledge and practice of hypnosis and all the rest of the paraphernalia ... to achieve his dream of CLEARING THE PLANET ... thanks to a faithful army of figureheads ... (I've always felt an awkward sensation in my guts when reading that sentence ... as in "sweeping off" ... )
    (there's another layer or either a two-way road beneath this, but I haven't yet finished to round up the ideas).

    Also maybe, how far have we come to terms with our own dark shadowy unconscious impulses, embracing and accepting our Shadow ... and what would be the risks involved in such an endeavor, for a weakened spirit/mind.

    Given his trajectory, research and associations, I think LRH was well aware of his own. And he leaves plenty of hints (willingy or not) scattered all around his workings.

    Please excuse the ramblings and any speech inconsistencies, English is not my mother language :sorry: (and I need some more coffee, LOL:sleepy:).

    (*) "When nothing is done, nothing is left undone" (Lao-Tzu - Tao Te Ching)

    P.S. This guy :old: reminded me of the "Priest" character in Age of Empires 1 ... I remember losing level after level because I wouldn't be able to "kill" the priest ... while he was happily preaching and converting all my "army" to the other side. When I finally did, I never felt good about that from then on ... and quit after winning two or three of them levels ... but, sadly, had to admit that it was a necessary action as per the "rules of the game".
    Weird. Very uncomfortable.

    BFN ... :tobed:
     
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  18. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    SOS, or Science of Survival, is not one hell of a book. For if it were, it would be all college required readings.

    And it would be on a best seller list, somewhere? Surely somebody else then you would think so.

    You are so full of shit it's unbelievable.
     
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  19. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    In his defense I'd like to say he probably admires his own shit..........wait, that's not admirable.................
     
  20. Me and My Self

    Me and My Self Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn

    APA + ATA? or ... They say all good things come in pairs (or more)

    In pairs and descending gradients.
    Pondering which one of those logical fallacies could be more harmful though ... guess I'll vouch for the "Authority" one.
    (If any, I'd rather read your OWN argumentations though ... me not much of a fan of mudslinging).
    Not "all".
    As early as in his first lecture (p. 14 of the Transcripts) he clearly states his caveat emptor:
    "Now… uh… all this of course is is… I’m just I’m just kidding you mostly. I don’t believe
    that you’ve been in the universe seventy-six trillion years. I don’t believe you have any
    past before birth.
    I… I don’t believe that there’s any reason whatsoever for this universe to be
    here except that some fellow called the devil or something that built it. Uh… I don’t believe
    any of these things. And I don’t want to be agreed with about them. It infuriates me to be
    agreed with about them. So I’m not asking for anybody to agree with me but I’m not asking
    for anybody to disagree with me either. All I’m asking is that we take a look at this information.

    And then go through a series of class assigned exercises – each one of you will get a
    mimeographed piece of paper. And that has a series of exercises on it. And it just says test
    this and test that. And it gives you a rundown actually on the complete subject. It is asking
    you to look for phenomena. And you’ll complete that before we’re finished here. Complete
    that in the evening or when you’re off for the weekend.
    It is a very interesting thing but all this phenomena is discoverable. So I’m not asking
    you to agree with me; I’m actually asking you to find out what you agreed with. And what
    you have been agreeing with all this time."

    I think that last sentence by itself opens the door to a whole universe of valuable self-discoveries.

    :rose: