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Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration impossible

Discussion in 'Legal and Government Actions Involving Scientology' started by CommunicatorIC, Apr 14, 2016.

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  1. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    It seems to me that this whole problem was caused by the Garcias signing away their rights to independent arbitration. So instead of arguing about the CoS arbitration, which we all know will be a farce, why haven't they argued that it was illegal for them to be made to sign away their rights in the first place?

    Or have they already argued this? Or was it not illegal?
     
  2. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs


    My reading of all the previously published articles is that THERE ARE NO SPECIFIC ARBITRATION POLICIES.

    What the COS did in a slap-dash moment of cult terror is to OFFER UP TO THE COURT THE HCOPL(s) ON COM EVS.

    Obviously, there is no slightest connection between an Arbitration and a Com Ev, other than both have ill-equipped Scientologists trying to find justice without any means of doing so. That is to say, Hubbard's policies/"technology" are guaranteed to create injustice, which is why 99% of Scientologists eventually blow.

    The court, in their infinite stupidity, accepted a Scientology-manned Arbitration, even though the cult's policies blatantly promote the doctrines that the COS is never wrong and anyone criticizing or suing is, by definition, an SP, a CRIMINAL and someone who HAS NO RIGHTS.

    And someone who must be destroyed.

    Put all that together and add in a half-gallon of KSW Scientologists manning the whole travesty and you have a manifestly malevolent mandate by the court that guarantees ALL OF THE RIGHTS OF THE PLAINTIVE WILL BE IGNORED, TRAMPLED OR WORSE.

    The judge on this case is no different than the stupid IRS that ruled in favor of Scientology being a tax-exempt religion.

    If there was a judge on any of those cases who was sworn supporter of the US Constitution, then this is what would have happened in those two instances:

    1) The Arbitration would have been delegated to any one of the top-flight professional Arbitration-Mediation organizations that have lawyers and judges running the show according to tried-and-true, proven methodologies based on law. Thus, the Garcia's would not have been subjected to the absurd injustice of having to try to prove that Scientology is a treacherously lying criminal organization.

    2) The IRS would have forced the COS to separate their "RELIGION" from the "SALES OF PRODUCTS". Thus, all pricelist donations (auditing/training) would not have been tax exempt. Likewise the properties (other than the "chapel" if it is fully dedicated to "worship") would have been liable for property taxes. And even more importantly than taxes, the COS would have been fully under the control of CONSUMER PROTECTION STATUTES AND AGENCIES. That last one would have opened the floodgates for lawyers eager to get their client's donations back for fraud. To wit, end of Scn as we know it!
     
  3. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    How could the CoS separate their "RELIGION" from the "SALES OF PRODUCTS", when the "SALES OF PRODUCTS" IS their "RELIGION"?* :confused2:





    * I exaggerated a bit there. The "SALES OF PRODUCTS" isn't truly their entire religion.

    It also includes the solicitation of "donations" for Ideal Orgs, Library Donation Projects, Way to Happiness booklets, and the unrelenting demand to increase ones IAS status.
     
  4. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    My guess of what happens next is Scientology will appeal to a higher court to have the judge's ruling over turned,.

    Mimsey
     
  5. tesseract

    tesseract Patron with Horrors

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    I have an almost shiny 1 € coin here that says, settlement. :biggrin:
    I'm not willing to bet more because it's a scientology case and that means, anything can happen, anytime. :coolwink:
    It's like when sentences don't end the way you octopus
    :eyeroll:

    On a more serious note, I suspect they will complain about the ruling as unconstitutional, insofar as the chosen arbitrators "need" to stay in contact with their "church" for their "spiritual processing", which the court ruling forbids. They'll probably try to exploit that situation for a while to play the victim, for their own parishioners and the few gullible sympathisants. Then, "suddenly" there'll be a settlement offering (because the lawyers keep telling Dave that the situation is getting serious).
    Ironically, as set out at the Underground Bunker in the comments, trying to settle now makes it necessary for CoS to ask for the hold on the lawsuit being lifted and that might (the experts are not sure) put them in danger of the judge ruling that the arbitration process is unfeasible/nonexistent. That might open the doors to future litigation for refunds.
    Or the judge rules at some point during choosing the arbitrators, or during arbitration, that the arbitration process is unfeasible and/or unfair.
    So many possibilities... :eyeroll:
     
  6. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Lots of great comments at the Bunker, I thought.

    There is no way in Xenu's hell the Church is going to generate a list of 500 Scientologists in good standing for distribution to the court or anyone. They don't want Scientologists to know this case even exists let alone giving them a reason to find out what it is about.

    I am a firm believer in the law of unintended consequences and this just became a little more popcorn worthy.
     
  7. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs


    Yes, yes, yes! So many possibilities!

    Let's not rule out the distinct possibility that the Garcias suddenly and mysteriously drop their lawsuit, publicly fire their attorneys and then publish a 1000 page, madly hand-scribbled manifesto from a remote log cabin[SUP]1[/SUP], detailing how Tony Ortega and the Russians hacked their litigation and brought about its demise.

    It doesn't have to make any sense--it's Scientology!

    LOL


    .



    [SUP]1[/SUP] LINK
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
  8. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Judge Waldrip of Comal County District court ruled as a finding after weighing 2 years of evidence ::::


    [​IMG]
     
  9. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs


    Yes! That was a wondrous and rare moment of light in what has otherwise been 67 years of the Scientology-induced "Dark Ages" of judicial blindness.

    If only other judges and jurisprudence regulatory agencies had such clarity! Judge Waldrip's conclusion was like a moon-less, pitch black night, suddenly illuminated by a momentary, fleeting flash of lightning!

    Yayyy for the brightness of functionally rational people!
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
  10. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    I get it now.....Com EV = Arbitration = A =A =A = Fraud....I get it...scientology is showing the court how to know how to know by their actions what is FRAUD.
    NO Clay Demo required..it is fully cleared now and scientology can demonstrate and use their fraud_ability
    isn't that what the course case is all about?? Fraud...yes I thought so....thanks Pass....next checksheet target
     
  11. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    OK, here's the latest. I really, really hope the Judge starts to get the picture.

    http://tonyortega.org/2017/04/27/sc...00-members-to-federal-court-but-with-a-catch/
     
  12. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    I think Judge Whittemore may now get total certainty and understanding just what Scientology really is

    Can't wait to see how he responds...
     
  13. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    I don't want to paste the picture/art work because it might violate copyrights but this pretty much encapsulates it all:

    https://drawception.com/panel/drawing/nd993336/skunk-playing-poker/
     
  14. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    The Garcias respond via their attorney.


    Full Documents: http://tonyortega.org/2017/04/29/ga...t-paying-attention-to-an-angry-federal-judge/


    http://tonyortega.org/2017/04/29/ga...to-an-angry-federal-judge/#comment-3280506307
     
  15. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    When the Garcias were scientologists they agreed that any dispute should be handled by the scientology arbitration system, just as any scientologist would, because they believed that the scientology system of justice would be fair.

    However, now that they are no longer scientologists and have presumably been declared as suppressive persons the scientology arbitration system obviously no longer applies to them.

    Why can't the judge say that by labelling them SPs the CoS has effectively cancelled any past agreements and therefore this arbitration system no longer applies?

    This so-called religion has kicked them out so it makes no sense to force them to be subjected to their justice system.

    It seems to me that some common sense is needed here.
     
  16. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Well, you have not received the EP of the Wog Justice System....where NO Common sense is used.:eyeroll:
     
  17. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    Exactly!!!

    I should have quoted Mr Babbit's response, it is great. The whole situation is bizarre and I personally think it could be a pivotal one if the Garcias can last the distance.
     
  18. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    The Judge is now going to select all three names!

    Judge Whittemore puts his foot down: Scientology, cough up those phone numbers!

    http://tonyortega.org/2017/05/02/ju...own-scientology-cough-up-those-phone-numbers/


    One of the comments:
    http://tonyortega.org/2017/05/02/ju...gh-up-those-phone-numbers/#comment-3285330319
     
  19. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    .

    Scieno-Scenario: Judge Whittemore begins calling random names on the "LIST OF 500 SCIENTOLOGISTS IN GOOD STANDING" that the Church of Scientology submitted to the court. Scientologists receiving his phone call react in ways that a "wog" judge would not predict or have any way of understanding.

    Sample responses when the judge calls Scientologists directly:

    -- "A judge? Jeez, I don't know about any of this. You need to put this in writing..."

    -- "This is very offline coming to me from a court. You need to put this particle on standard justice lines so my church can route it to me directly, per KSW."

    -- "Let me get back to you after I check with my church to get r-factored, briefed and study the relevant LRH policies they tell me need to be applied."

    -- "Let me get back to you after I contact my ethics officer and he tells me what I think about this."


    After the judge fails on the first 499 phone calls to find any Scientologist who is willing to cooperate directly with him (without COS interference), Judge Whittemore dials Scientologist in good standing #500 and introduces himself and the reason for his phone call.



    SCIENTOLOGIST #500
    Did you say you are a judge?

    JUDGE WHITTEMORE
    Yes.

    SCIENTOLOLGIST #500
    Jeez, I don't know about any of this.
    My religion has strict policies about
    never talking to reporters and junk like that.

    JUDGE WHITTEMORE
    But I am not a reporter. I am
    a federal judge. Do you understand?

    SCIENTOLOGIST #500
    Jeez, I don't know...
    But, I don't understand why
    you are calling me.
    Isn't that verbal data?

    JUDGE WHITTEMORE
    Whattttt?

    SCIENTOLOGIST #500
    This whole thing sounds really squirelly.
    You really need to put this in writing.

    JUDGE WHITTEMORE
    ...and if I send it to you in writing, then are you
    willing to participate as a reasonable and fair arbitrator?

    SCIENTOLOGIST
    I am willing to be fair--but I am
    definitely not going to go into
    agreement with being reasonable.

    JUDGE WHITTEMORE
    Whattttttt? I don't get it.
    Certainly Scientology must want
    its members to be reasonable, don't they?

    SCIENTOLOGIST #500
    Reasonable or not reasonable,
    I just can't discuss any of this on
    the phone with you.

    JUDGE WHITTEMORE
    Can you at least tell me the reason?

    SCIENTOLOGIST #500
    Okay, it's because Ron states in scripture
    that "Telephones are psychotic".

    JUDGE WHITTEMORE
    OMG! LOL!




    The judge's final reaction is what what Scientologists call a "major cognition" and "end phenomena". The "ability attained" at such moments is the ability to be "clear" headed enough to get as far away from these homo novi as humanly possible.



     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  20. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Re: Garcias back in court in fraud lawsuit after Scientology makes arbitration imposs

    actually, as you know, the more fuller quote is telephones are psychotic because they have no memory. I read a comment by J Swift over at Tony O blog that got me thinking: ( http://tonyortega.org/2017/05/02/ju...y-cough-up-those-phone-numbers/#disqus_thread )

    And here is hubbard's rhetoric and even Ray Jefferies fell for it to a certain degree.

    Of course phones do not have memory, they are just walkie talkies. Who is supposed to have memories are each person talking to each other and remembering the conversation, phones have nothing to do with it, LOL

    Of course the ultimate rhetoric is that clears have perfect recall of this life and OT's have perfect recall of the whole track. :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

    :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: