What's new

Gregor Wisner

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
you know your avi looks like a little fairy. I love fae ;) Thank you so much for your help and you know what I mean. Yesterday I was given a miracle. I happen to believe in God and miracles. I've received many in my life. I wasn't killed when I fell 17 feet from a deck that broke, I escaped from a very abusive young life when I was 12 and was given a good life. Everyone deserves a chance. Gregor never had one. Maybe we have a chance to do something good now. It's time after all these years. I figured if I kept trying, posting, and more recently making videos about him, Iwould eventually meet the right people. I finally did and it's all because you chose to post my vids on ESMB. I'm so very thankful for that.

Anonymousmaple, I too believe in God and miracles as I have survived more near death experiences than I care to remember. I cannot explain why I am still on this earth other than to say God has watched over me when I needed it most. That said, I am not pushing this belief on anyone. But to survive
three heart attacks, kidney failure, real and near auto accidents, on and on I have no other explanation. And just about all my prayers have been answered in the most wonderful way.

ESMB and Nozeno have been your answer.
 

Carmel

Crusader
I did say that most of the work was good. I think we all are fighting in our own ways.
You've done real well, anonm - It's each and every one doing their own thing in their own way, that has and does make a difference. :)

The Gregor story is too sad. I hold the parents ultimately responsible, but at the same time I do hold scn responsible and accountable - Scn makes just so many people who would otherwise be 'good, loving' parents, into heartless and/or coward 'machines' who end up sacrificing the love, the well being and sometimes the 'lives', of their very own children.
 

uncle sam

Silver Meritorious Patron
You've done real well, anonm - It's each and every one doing their own thing in their own way, that has and does make a difference. :)

The Gregor story is too sad. I hold the parents ultimately responsible, but at the same time I do hold scn responsible and accountable - Scn makes just so many people who would otherwise be 'good, loving' parents, into heartless and/or coward 'machines' who end up sacrificing the love, the well being and sometimes the 'lives', of their very own children.

Carmel has written an excellent -comment- to what this is about! Thanks.
 
why I don't totally blame his mom

Personally, I feel that if you've already been in abusive relationships or have had an abusive or fractured childhood you are more open to the manipulations of others. I dealt with this myself for a very long time. It took years of weekly therapy for me to be able to think for myself and see the truth in people/groups etc.

Herb is definitely abusive. I have no other way to explain how he was able to systematically separate a mother from her child, and replace that child with one of his own. He had to know the stats of NarCONon. That the "program" would not fix Gregor. I believe he used this to his advantage in manipulating Gregor's mom.

His mother always sounded brokenhearted and everything Gregor said and wrote indicated that she was still trying to a positive force in his life. But then Herb would intercede and turned the positive force into a negative one. And if you are someone who experienced abandonment and emotional abuse as a child and have never been treated appropriately for this, which would only be correctly done by a psychiatrist or therapist, you are constantly plagued by feelings of rejection and abandonment. Scientology says you should be able to solve these issues on your own. Going along with this...if you go through the NarCONon program...you are doing it alone. I know this is true because Gregor wrote to me directly about that issue.

If you've taken the time to watch Scientology's film on the evils of psychiatry, you know the terror a true blue Scientologist would feel about the very idea of going to a psychiatrist yourself or sending your child there. I watched the video and even I was freaked out by it. Why would you send your child to a psychiatrist if you've been trained to believe that it's the worst possible thing you could do.

As a result, individuals with issues like mental illness, depression, or who are part of the 95% of people who go through NarCONon and relapse, the only thing to do is disconnect from these people and hope they solve their issues on their own. If you have problems that are that serious there is no possible way that you can solve these problems on your own because you haven't been given ANY tools to do so.

This may seem blatently obvious to some people but to Scientologists... this is the way you do things. And if you don't follow the tech you are committing crimes against Scientology and can be declared as an SP. And THAT means you will never be clear, or if you are clear, be able to participate in clearing the planet. So if you don't disconnect from the problem person then you will be disconnected from and declared for not following the tech. This is exactly how people lose their husbands, wives, and children.

With all this going on, how can you think straight anyway? things that don't make sense start making a lot of sense. It's the ultimate manipulation. Also, it has been exposed that during auditing sessions people are hypnotized.

When everything you're being told collides with your own inherant personal values etc. then you are at risk for experiencing a psychotic break or commiting suicide.

These of course are just my own personal opinions developed directly from my own experiences with Scientology and Gregor.
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Anonymousmaple you and all of us know how controlling the cult is. For me for years and years I would never admit to my belief in God because of the mindset in the cult and in American society in general. This absolute bull crap about "separation of church and state" has been poisoned by the ACLU and media and courts to the point that there is NO religious freedom in the USA, regardless of the high minded sounding pronouncements of liars.

If anyone bothered to study founding documents, it is abundantly clear the intention was that government never sponsor one religion over another.
Period.

We live in a time where the f*cking government thinks IT runs the people as opposed to the other way around. I know this is a bit off topic, but when people are forbidden to think for themselves tragedies like Gregor occur. Scientology is the most evil of evils in that regard.
 

AnonMo

Patron
In the field of psychiatry and mental health, I think there are some good people trying to help and some actually do. That's quite an evolution for me from my conclusion at age 12 that I hated ALL psychiatrists.

My childhood was greatly influenced by psychiatrists. My mother had shock treatment more than once. They just gave her drugs and more drugs. She died at a very young age.

NOTE: My post was changed and made less personal for privacy reasons.
 
Last edited:

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
sorry

Wow, anonymousmaple, that is a tragic story. My older brother was diagnosed schizophrenic and the "doctors" likewise did little to help him. I have no love for psychiatry, but LRH the Turd has done more harm to mankind than any scientific discipline.

From my perspective now love and support from family and friends is more helpful than any "professional" help. When kids, no matter how old, know their family will never desert them they gain a certain confidence to face any obstacle.

You appear to have overcome much and you are an inspiration to us.
 
What People Don't Realize

I was in the psychiatry system for twenty years. I saw some really awful people with degrees. They were total idiots. I had been sexually abused for five years and all they could see was their chance to label me MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder) and write a book.

I knew there was something else wrong with me. I was sure of it. Somehow I made it through college while enduring psychotic breaks, total confusion, etc. One guy would sit and stare at me and wait for me to say something. It's a specific form of psychotherapy. Eventually he told me I had five different personalities that he'd seen so far(after five sessions). I said ok and what are they. He said there's a little girl the cries all the time, a teen who is angry, a young personality that is scared to death, one who is happy, and one who can't help but giggle all the time. I laughed. I said, "That sounds like the different faccets to one personality. Part of a person is sad, happy, can be nervous and cover it with laughter etc. But you see, I had educated myself enough to pick this up. I went home and told my parent that I was never going back, and that guy was a quack. After that I took a break from therapy. then while in college I went to see one of the resident therapists. He tried to help me find MY SPIRIT ANIMAL. um......QUACK.

I didn't realize until I was 25 that I WAS IN CHARGE of therapy and who I chose as a therapist, and I still am. People get so ruffled by psychs because of their degrees and they think that person knows it all and is their only option/hope because half of them act that way.

Part of this feeling is personal, and the other part has to do with the healthcare system. I once spent two weeks calling over twenty area psychiatrists to try and get an appointment after firing my psychiatrist for mismanagement of medication (and by the way YOU ARE IN CHARGE OF WATCHING AND RESEARCHING YOUR MEDS). I had to lie and say I was suicidal to a hospital ER psych doc in order to get admitted...why you say? Because if you check in to a psych ward you cannot be released unless they have made an appointment with an available psychiatrist on the outside. :) I was crafty.

I finally figured out that if I didn't jive with a therapist after three sessions they were fired. I was now in charge of who I saw and how the session went. I fired a lot of people before I finally found an amazing psychiatrist and a therapist that worked for him. This was a life changing experience. Finally, someone saw past the sexual abuse and diagnosed me as Bipolar. I was so happy to know what was wrong with me. Now we could start to gain some control through medications and knowledge. I read a million books and I own all the books the psychs have like the DSM IV which is the book that attempts to define every possible mental disorder in existence.

I spent seven years with these two people. Every week with the therapist and every month with the psych. It worked.

Another thing people do even with good therapists is stop before it's time. Quit before finishing. If you are in for the real deal you don't leave till the therapist says you're done. And I'm talking about a therapist you've grown to trust. Not some random quack. Why? So you don't end up right back in that chair six months later, two years later, etc.

I believe in the field of psychiatry. But I also believe with my twenty years experience that there are an awful lot of quacks out there. And as far as EST goes...or Electro Shock Therapy...it should only be used in the most extreme of cases and even then it's questionable to me.

However, there are idiots in every field of medicine and Scientology uses that fact to its advantage. I don't even think I need to go there.

I am sorry for your negative experiences with psychiatry. Once again...people don't realize they are in charge..and even worse there are people with mental conditions that prevent them from being able to make decisions on or judge their healthcare professionals correctly...so if someone isn't standing by them and taking part in some of the sessions...they are left to their psychistrists/therapists devices.

btw. no pity please about my own life. I wouldn't be the person I am today without everything I went through :happydance:
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Please excuse me, I made a big mistake

Dear AnonMo and Anonymousmaple,

I mixed you two up. It sounds however you both have had experience with psychiatry, really messed up encounters. It is a "dismal" "science" and I make no apology for it, but LRH the Turd to my mind trashed it for his own gain. Less competition.

For sure Gregor deserved better treatment, other options than the dungeon he was given. That Narconon or Scn walks away from his death scot free is an abomination. At the least Narconon should be shut down, not being under the dubious umbrella of a "religion."

I cannot get the suspicion in my mind that Scn is controlled in some way by the CIA though. Conspiracy theories aside, why has DM's name shown up on CIA agent lists? Why no scrutiny of Scn by the FBI or other law enforcement? This belongs on a different thread though, and there is such a thread somewhere on esmb.

Again, my apologies.
 

AnonMo

Patron
Dear AnonMo and Anonymousmaple,

I mixed you two up. It sounds however you both have had experience with psychiatry, really messed up encounters.
I figured that you meant me. No problems. I removed some of the specifics though - it was getting too personal and I was worried someone might recognize me. Sorry I had to do that. :)
 
Last edited:

uncle sam

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'm thinking that .....

Gregor in all likely hood would have been a member of "Anonymous"! Have skateboard will travel--Gregor loved to skateboard and loved to travel. It's a good thing that he liked to travel as ole Herbie wouldn't let the kid stay at home. It seems-Gregor was kicked out of his home when he turned 18--saved ole Herbie "food money"--so Herbie could buy his IAS patronage.
I can see Gregor protesting his-bio father R. Michael Wisner -his mom-and ole Herbie [the evil step dad]. LOL-that would've been great -Gregor telling tales of R. Michael's betrayals--oooh--just had a thought---ya just gotta know that when Herbie was cooking up his schemes to defraud the down and out of their last pennies to save themselves from mortgage defaults--he couldn't have Gregor there--learning about Herbie's plot!!!!
What would of Gregor's anonymous name have been?
 

uncle sam

Silver Meritorious Patron
a few more

Gregor's anon name could also have been:

"anonwithspmomanddads'
"anonwhoneededwogsforparents'

"anonwhoseparentsflunked"
"anonbetrayed"
 
Anonymousmaple you and all of us know how controlling the cult is. For me for years and years I would never admit to my belief in God because of the mindset in the cult and in American society in general. This absolute bull crap about "separation of church and state" has been poisoned by the ACLU and media and courts to the point that there is NO religious freedom in the USA, regardless of the high minded sounding pronouncements of liars.

If anyone bothered to study founding documents, it is abundantly clear the intention was that government never sponsor one religion over another.
Period.

We live in a time where the f*cking government thinks IT runs the people as opposed to the other way around. I know this is a bit off topic, but when people are forbidden to think for themselves tragedies like Gregor occur. Scientology is the most evil of evils in that regard.

Winston,

In the words of Ronald Reagan "Well....there you go again."

I defy you to find one other place on earth where there is more religious freedom than in the United States.

Anyone can start a Church. Churches are not taxed if it is determined they are non-profit. Churches can get around basic laws that apply to other businesses and individuals, such as minimum wage, in some cases sales tax, and property tax. In religious schools students can be taught anything the school wants.
The Church of Scientology gets away with many of its abuses because it is a Church.

The fact that you don't like a particular religion does not mean that there is no religious freedom.

And the phrase "separation of church and state" is shortened from "a wall of seperation between church and state."

This is from a letter by Thomas Jefferson (another one of those liberals you hate so much) to the Danbury Baptist Association on 1 January 1802.

If you read the whole letter Jefferson points out that the government should be excluded from intruding into the realm of religion and vice versa.

A subsequent Supreme Court decision (you know, that liberal branch of government which was established by the Founding Fathers to prevent the legislature or president from become tyrants) used that phrase in an opinion.

Remeber, Thomas Jefferson (that radical liberal) vetoed the first Thanksgiving holiday because he said that "thanking God" was a religious expression of faith, not a political action.

This was not intended to divert this thread, but rather keep it grounded in reality.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Hi TAJ

I am well aware of the Danbury congregation...and it was a LETTER, not something written in the Constitution. The idea was to stay away from anything English, which meant no Church of England, no Church of America. Yes there is plenty of religious freedom here...but our present ACLU and government throwing hissy fits and lawsuits at anything Christian is a mockery of the founding of this country. Why the hell don't they go after our favorite religious institution, the Church of Scatology? Because it is a nonreligious mockery of religion. The government and the ACLU just LOVE that kind of church.

Why the hell does CAIR get such kid glove treatment? Because they oppose Christianity. I have been reading founding documents for several months now. I am impressed by the presence of God in just about every discourse about our freedom. Now God is banned, if not in actuality then in intent.
 
I am well aware of the Danbury congregation...and it was a LETTER, not something written in the Constitution. The idea was to stay away from anything English, which meant no Church of England, no Church of America. Yes there is plenty of religious freedom here...but our present ACLU and government throwing hissy fits and lawsuits at anything Christian is a mockery of the founding of this country. Why the hell don't they go after our favorite religious institution, the Church of Scatology? Because it is a nonreligious mockery of religion. The government and the ACLU just LOVE that kind of church.

Why the hell does CAIR get such kid glove treatment? Because they oppose Christianity. I have been reading founding documents for several months now. I am impressed by the presence of God in just about every discourse about our freedom. Now God is banned, if not in actuality then in intent.

You are adding in the idea was that it was about staying away from anything English. The letter was written in English, wasn't it?

The letter and the intent is clear, and the driving founders put that Enlightenment view in the First Amendment! "Congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

I don't know who has banned God from our discourse. You've said God. I've said God. Who has banned God?

Within five blocks of where I live there are five different denomination of Churches including a Mosque.

I've got 11 channels on my TV, two of them are full time religious channels.

Who has banned God from our discourse? People not including God in their discourse is not the same as banning God from their discourse.

I don't know what America you live in that you are so bitter about. But it is not the America I live in. Spend some time in Russia. Then you'll see the difference.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Yeah this is the wrong thread. Sorry. I was not saying we lack religious freedom. However, when a football team happens to pray before a game or someone is asked to give a prayer before convocation or some other event, we have the ACLU going bonkers. I will say that again...we are a nation of religions. Get off your "Go to Russia" kick, bud. If you want to piss me off tell me the ACLU and other organizations don't fuck with Christianity. Every fucking Christmas there is some atheist protesting next to a Christmas tree.

What I am trying to say, if you have the ability to read, is our founders did not want ANY religion ostracized...as atheists routinely do to Christians. Pick up a school text and you will find 50 pages extolling the virtues of Islam, and correspondingly 3 dry, clinical pages about Christianity. THAT is the kind of shit I am railing on about. OKAY, The Anabaptist Jacques??
 
Top