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Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Tanstaafl, Dec 2, 2007.

  1. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    This has come up before on other threads but I thought it a good idea to start one of its own.

    I've seen such diverse views on this topic within CoS. I know of at least one person who went to a mission, openly gay, and was welcome.

    I asked an E/O about this once and I was told any gay within Scn would "have to knock it off". When I asked why, I was told that "the second dynamic would crash if we were all like that." I asked if hetero couples in Scn were hauled into Ethics if they didn't plan to have kids. I was told no. When I asked why not, I got a shrug. (I'm used to those when I ask questions in COS:eyeroll: )

    I was talking to an OT5 recently who made a remark about "goddamn fags", which surprised me a little.

    Anyway, I'd like to know if anyone here (apart from PMD) has an issue with gays/lesbians and if so, why.

    Also, I'd like to know if anyone thinks being gay is a barrier to case gain (unless, like Mick, you don't think there is any such thing :) ).

    I can understand it being a big missed withhold in the 50s, but that hardly applies now.


  2. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I mentioned on another thread that I had not come across anyone who was openly gay until about 7 years ago. That is mostly because I always associated within the group, the only exception being parents of my kid's friends.

    This guy I met exploded any myths I had believed about all gay people being 1.1 blah blah. He saved my sanity, he is the most gorgeous and caring friend I could have ever wished for. It was a real eye opener, and I thought my eyes were already open! :omg: Some 'beliefs' need to be put to the test.

    When I recently heard a Scio talking about having a normal conversation with "a raging poofter" (their words) as though it was a major win...I just about puked.

    I hate judgemental attitudes!! :angry:
  3. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Homosexuality is no barrier to case gain.

    No more so than being in relationship to the wrong partner or the right partner.

    Always thought the whole sex thing was a misdirector........making a body part or act more important than the being.

    Betrayal of trust is the major destructive act. Not the betraying body part. :grouch:

  4. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Thanks for that Alan.

    Just curious, is that a theoretical datum or one backed-up from counselling experience?
  5. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Both life and processing experiences.
  6. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Thank you.
  7. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Clearly, what you rub on is the most important thing in life.

    What you rub on is crucial in determining everything.
  8. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Gays respond to auditing in exactly the same way heteros do. No difference at all.

    I have audited about a dozen or more and have never yet had one even consider that it is something that needs to be handled. So I have left the subject in peace as far as their progress on the bridge is concerned.

    So I cannot answer whether it is an aberration or not.
  9. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I didn't know of any gays at the Riverside Mission BUT I knew two guys who were bi-sexual. (BTW, all bi-sexuals that I knew had a preference for their own gender - it ain't 50-50 according to those few that I knew.) I also met a few at The Manor when I was on HPCSC at ASHO.

    I don't care as long as they are not publically flamboant about it with very crude acts in gay parades OR trying to promote it to children and teens in schools. Otherwise, I don't care.

    Hubbard was against this HOWEVER he did also say that the O/W cycle was an "apparency". Huh? Go figure.
  10. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    Hey man, I got declared for it.

    When I was in the SO, I was very against it. Like with homosexuals encountered on the streets of LA. Those were considered repulsive, at least to the SO members I knew.

    But then some people who were homosexual would come in for auditing and we would try to help them/address their problem. In most cases, it was not an abberation they were trying to handle. So it was not getting addressed really.

    I didnt see how they were treated outside of the sessions by other Scientologists. So I couldnt tell you.


    Since then I have a friend who is homosexual and full drag queen cross dresser. Very funny guy. Fun to hang out with.

    (No, I am not myself homosexual).
  11. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    Hey, this is a foul canard. I do too think that there are gay people.
  12. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Damn - should have seen that one coming. :melodramatic:
    You gotta keep one step ahead of the game on ESMB. :yes:
  13. Beef Terminal

    Beef Terminal Patron

    A woman (public) I knew at a mission was openly lesbian and quite manly...mullet, strut and all.

    The Reg told her not to be surprised if she walked away from Scientology being "straight." She was later temporarily barred from services since she (supposedly) wasn't paying taxes.

    And I was under the impression there were no 2D rules...
  14. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Where did you get that impression?

  15. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    From one point of view, just being stuck with a body is aberration.

  16. Beef Terminal

    Beef Terminal Patron

    From policy set forth by L. Ron Hubbard.
  17. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    It's an HCOPL called "Second Dynamic Rules"

    In this HCOPL Hubbard said that no one was to write a KR on anyone else because of 2D activity of any kind. He said that, by long experience, ethics will not handle problems on the 2D. Only auditing will.

    It is widely ignored and routinely violated in the Church of Scientology.
  18. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Isn't the question: Who/what is generating the feelings of sexual attraction?
    Surely, there would be something wrong with the GE if it didn't want to procreate?
  19. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    I guess so :)

    *My* impression is that 'Out 2D' would be one of the largest single categories of KR and CommEv particulars. But, that's Scientology for you; straddle the fence so you can come down on any side you want, anytime you want.

  20. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron


    I know of plenty of bodies I've been stuck in and out off - that were passionate, joyous occasions! :thumbsup:

    Not in the least bit abberative! :omg: