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Homosexuality

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Tanstaafl, Dec 2, 2007.

  1. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor


    snip-"But whatever it is that makes them the way they are, it isn't a reason to hate them."

    Hey Lee, coulda fooled me! :pillowfight: Have you considered a career in stand-up comedy?:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
     
  2. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    If you're serious about dropping hate, then drop the us and them barrier. Gays are people too.

    As for the fuck-fest, we have a double standard here. In the hetero-world a guy who gets lots of women is a "Stud". A woman who gets lots of men is a SLUT! So how about dropping stereotypes, bypassing the enforcement of an outdated moral code and letting people be people. If these activities are not hurting you, what difference does it make?

    Go back and read the Pinkboard graffiti walls I cited earlier. All are archived except "Tits & bits", and "Boys" which is a shame, because there's been some fantastic discussion over the years. Last year the Boys wall was full of debate on how Crystal Meth was destroying the "community" because this party-drug was causing an overwhelming desire for sex-sex-sex without the care boundaries of making sure things were safe. We had an actual CMA addict come on board and tell his story about how he was slowly rebuilding his life after losing all his friends and how, as a result of his reckless behavior, he now lives with HIV.

    If you want to make comment about gay people, overcome your own prejudices, and go and read what gay people have to say about themselves. Yes you will find inflatable plastic pill-popping party-goers who blow their entire income in one weekend, but if you keep reading, you will find intelligent "mature" postings generally from Australians, but with the occasional international post. Educate yourself on what this marginalized group of people feel about themselves before making comments that I feel are prejudicial and inaccurate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  3. Lee,
    You may wish to take a look at a part of your rhetoric which makes you seem prejudice. You have said several times that you speak the truth; that your assessment of the situation is the truth. And several times you have also called other people's assessment of things that is different than yours cowardly political correctness. So in reality you are not realy having a discussion, you're just insisting that you are right and others wrong. You can do that if you like, but then don't expect to learn anything new about people or life. With your mind made up that you are right and other opinions are cowardly, I don't know why you bother to converse.

    The Anabaptist Jacques
     
  4. Operating DB

    Operating DB Truman Show Dropout

    I wasn't going to comment on Lee's post but I'm glad you did. Couldn't have said it better myself.
     
  5. Carmel

    Carmel Crusader

    Agreed, TAJ!

    Lee,

    You stated this on your first post on the 'monogomy' thread:

    "I haven't got the patience to read through 7 pages of posts, so I'm going to just respond to the initial poster. I'm probably going to be repeating things that others have said. Great minds think alike after all..."

    Then this on this thread:

    "I've not read all of the posts here, so forgive me if I'm repeating something that has already been said."

    To me that's kind of like saying that you are not interested in what we may or may not have said. It doesn't make sense to me to join in on a thread or 'discussion', if you don't know what others are saying or have said.

    Carmel
     
  6. Lovesnightsky

    Lovesnightsky Silver Meritorious Patron

    Ceedia, it's actually very common in forums for someone to answer the first question without reading the whole thread.
    It's part of forum reality.
     
  7. Carmel

    Carmel Crusader

    Fair enough, but not conducive to discussion or understanding IMHO.
     
  8. Zac

    Zac Patron

    My 2 cents...

    How do you know that we are all so promiscuous?? (Are you GAY?)

    I think you should get your facts straight. The only reason HIV is more widely spread between gay guys is because of anal sex. HIV transmission will only occur about 20% of the time through vaginal sex where as it will occur about 99% of the time through anal sex. Therefore your theory about AIDS being such a 'plague' for us goes out the window.

    Also just a side note, I have a lot of gay friends and a lot of straight friends. I personally have never had unprotected sex because of the fear of HIV and pretty much all my gay friends are in the same boat, except for when they are in long term relationships. Where as with my straight friends I don't know any of them who haven't had a one night stand, without wearing a condom on more than one occasion.

    Girls like sex pretty much the same as boys do.. They just aren't allowed to because they get called 'Sluts' where as the boys get called 'Studs'. Statistics also show that girls loose their virginity because boys do. I think you are giving the girls much too much credit. (Just joking girls.. I love you all!)
     
  9. Zac

    Zac Patron

    My touch on the gay road...

    First thing.. I knew I was a gay boy from as long as I can remember. I don't know about you girls but as I'm sure you boys know, from a young age you find the naked body quite interesting. Even from 4 or 5 I remember being at the swimming pool always interested looking at the other guys naked. For the str8 boys, I have 2 str8 brothers, they liked seeing girls naked. This all happens much before others might like to admit.

    So yes I'm gay.. I didn't really know this was what it was and growing up in western society (and amongst scois) I knew this was, 'wrong' or 'not cool'. As time went on I realised I was gay.. there wasn't really a moment when I knew I was, but if asked or told I was, I was very offended and I fucken hated it. I was being labeled with something bad, now I know it's not.

    I was at a scio primary school (elementry I think it is for you American's :eyeroll: ) until I was about 9 or 10. I didn't really like it there. I was picked on by some of the kids for being like I was. Then I went to a performing arts school for the rest of primary. There I used to sit with the teacher and all the girls while the boys played soccer. The teacher used to say to me why don't you go play soccer with the boys (If only I could have words with that teacher now ). Most of the teachers were fine though and I enjoyed the school a lot.

    We moved up to the Central Coast (north of Sydney) when I had just started high school. I went to the local high school and only lasted about six weeks and I just hated it. Mum agreed to home school me at that point. After two years, we were looking at a performing arts school that I could apply to for my last four years of secondary education. It was a selective for people who were into the arts. I got in for singing.. (Luckily I don't see any of you face to face so you won't ask me to sing ) So this made it a bit easier through high school although not as easy as you think. I was still made fun of for being a fag even though there were another 10 or so gay guys in my year. The start of year 10 came around (third last year of high school) and I was at a party and someone caught me and another guy in a bedroom... Woops!! It had then spread around the whole year by 9 am on Monday at which point I didn't really give a shit. I did 3 computer electives at school, I was good with them at school and I guess I still am. Most of my classes were with the straight boys. I never got any shit from them again after they had found out. I guess they didn't really care that I was and found not reason to treat me any diffrent. Unless of course I tried to hit on. The same old saying "I don't care if you're gay as long as you don't hit on me".

    I ended up getting my Mum to tell me that she knew I was gay. I couldn't quite say the words myself. I then got her to tell my brothers and Dad. Sam the older brother just below me stopped calling me a fag but Max the youngest thought said it more for the first month then realised it didn't bother and stopped. They family friends then gradually found out and everything turned out cool(Except for the odd ones we don't see anymore at all). I don't really know what I was worried about to begin with I just wish I told everyone earlier, it's a lot easier now.

    Life and school and that went on as normal. I had done the purif in the org, but that was the only major service I had done. I then met some recruiters from the SO... I didn't have any interest in joining the SO but I had a neighbour and old family friend, who was going down to see them which was an hour away. I thought I would go for the ride. After a few trips down and hearing all the great stuff about it I thought, 'maybe'. I met a chick called MJ who was the senior HAS in ANZO or something. She told me about a guy who I went to primany school with who was in the SO and was going really well. He was dealing with major projects in IT, my area, and was travelling a lot. I was thinking this was a great opportunity for me.

    This chick MJ had an interest in me. She asked me the basic questions asked on the SO check list to see if I had qualified. I passed them all. She neglected to ask if I had any homosexual whatever's (I forget the wording).

    I told my parents and the shit hit the fan on the home front and the extended family front. (I was digging my heals in, and was determined to join the SO). That's another story though.

    I was told the whole homosexual thing was fine and that some issues regarding one of my uncles would all be fine. That was all 'cleared up' but the communication from MJ to me was cut. It was then just the AO recruiters trying to recruit me into the AO (ANZO AO). I wasn't interested in going into the AO, but this is not what I was sold on (and I had my parents and family who had been warning me about this). I ended up just saying no! and I never went in. Thank GOD!

    My parents had been off lines for years. Somehow after this recruit cycle, I was back 'on lines'. After that I copped a lot of crap from SO crew who I had gone to school with (those few years), for being gay. They pretty well all saw my sexual orientation as an ethics matter, had labeled me as 1.1 and told me to 'Knock it off'.

    By this time I was out of school and I continued studying in IT. I continued this study for about a year, but then decided to move back down to Sydney away from the Parentals and their two mistakes, my brothers :p . They weren't really mistakes and I do love them lots and we get on great. But I like telling them that because it gives them the shits. I always loved the city and I wanted to start living my own life.

    I think I have had a very easy road compared to some I have heard about. It has given me a thick skin which is mostly good but sometimes not so good.

    There has been talk about whether you are born gay not. I guess as a general rule you are. But there are always exceptions. I have a very close friend, he is in his 50's. He was with a guy for 15 yrs and they were basically married. The other guy who he was with for those 15 years, decided to break it off and now has a wife and is married with a child.

    I don't think there is a definite line between gay and straight or bi whatever you want to call it. I know I would love to be able to sleep with girls.. I get along with them really well.. it would be really easy to pick them up.. but they just don't do it for me in that way.

    I don't think anyone can say they know the exact science of how we all work to do with the sex side of things, let along anything else. It's something we have to work out for ourselves.
     
  10. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    Given the BPC surrounding a topic such as this, it is very wise to have read a good bulk of the posts before entering the discussion. Admittedly when confronted with 100 posts or more, a person is unlikely to read ALL of them, but certainly one should have read enough of the thread to get the general tone and direction of the discussion before jumping in boots and all. You will note that I gave the same warning when I posted the link to Pinkboard--read, read, read and then read some more before making a comment.

    In this case I agree with Ceedia. If it were a humor thread, then LNS has right of way.
     
  11. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    Teckid,

    I was distracted for a long time by another matter, so you must have posted while I was still composing.

    I envy you! You actually got the chance to be caught as a teenager??? I was raised so puritanically any form of sexual advance had me climbing the walls (and still does).

    Otherwise, my self-knowledge was like your own at school, and I also "pulled in" the gay taunts even though I'd never hit on anyone. I was also happier in the music room or the computer room (actually we only had the one computer and it wasn't a room, it was a cupboard--which adds new meaning to coming out of the closet), than out on the sports field. The CFS may well have been part of the problem, although I was a very flexible gymnast and dancer. "Ew! Guys who do ballet are SOOOO GAAAY!" "Oh, yeah? Well at least they've got nice bums!"

    I really only admitted to myself that I was gay in about 1998 and when I went to Uni as a mature student in 2003, I was "out" in that environment, but back in my original red-neck town, I remain closeted. Besides, with CFS, even thinking about sex requires too much energy!

    The sec check question is "Are you a practising homosexual?" I always passed that question, because my indoctrination made me hate the idea of gay sex, and hate myself for even thinking I may be gay.

    If my health had allowed me to stay and work in Sydney, I would probably have 'eased' myself into the gay scene and learned to live with it and simply shielded my parents from something they don't know how to deal with.

    See you round one day.
     
  12. Lovesnightsky

    Lovesnightsky Silver Meritorious Patron

    I never stated it was not a good idea to read the entire thread. I am just telling you so that you know that people will more often not read the entire thread before replying to the first posting and this is a common occurrence in all forums. Part of life on the internet and no reason to shoot someone down just because they do that. At least he said he didn't bother reading it, which is good netiquette and more than most people do.
     
  13. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    I agree that on many fora, people are able to jump in at any given point without issue. but this is a thread whose title alone indicates that there are going to be deeply personal emotional responses and it is incumbent upon the prospective poster to ensure that he is at least partially informed.

    I myself have jumped into several fora based entirely on first posts but, not on a topic such as this--I made that mistake once and very quickly laermed the error of my ways from a far bigger flame thrower than has been used here.

    If a 'delicate' thread is 100 posts long, and some of the really long posts are daunting, by all means skim through by just reading all the short ones to get the gyst of what's going on. Yes, an admission of not reading was made, and yes, I myself have responded to a post thinking it the last on the thread to then discover it was at the bottom of a page, and there's a whole page following that I missed.

    Ignorance or arrogance aside, this is a deeply emotional and personal topic to many people, and entry into the topic requires discarding the hob-nail boots and learning to walk on egg-shells.

    We've all made the same mistake at some point. Ceedia just intervened before it could get any worse. I still recommend

    http://www.pinkboard.com.au/graffiti/

    as good reading material. It is not a quick-link site (although it has a personal ad section) but like this forum is for $cn escapees, Pinkboard is a gathering of like and unalike minds to discuss issues that directly affect gay people--and no I'm not getting a commission for promoting it. It is an excellent resource to observe the mind set from those who live in the gay ghettos to those who live in the wider world, and many of the variations in between including people like myself who live "compartmentalized" lives.
     
  14. Sir Facer

    Sir Facer Patron with Honors

    Great Post TK

    Great Post TK, I have many straight & many Gay friends also, and straight people are no less promiscuous than Gay people. The only difference I observe is most Gay people I know & love are more honest about their sexuality and most of my straight friends keep their shanigans hidden, so it may "appear" that way but take off the rose coloured glasses and whamo!!

    The Idea that gay and straight relationships are so different is quite a myth really, as sexuality has been with the same sex loving the same sex for too long to deny that it is actually just part of life & humanity.

    Attraction is attraction.....The End:coolwink:
     
  15. Tim Skog

    Tim Skog Silver Meritorious Patron

    ^^^^^^Yes.
     
  16. Lovesnightsky

    Lovesnightsky Silver Meritorious Patron

    Walking on eggshells I find to be extremely patronizing and do not support it unless I am dealing with a very weak and mentally unstable person, and gay people who stand their ground and the families and friends who support them are far from being those things.

    I was not making Ceedia wrong, I was simply explaining it is part of life on the internet. It's a reality. Shoot me.

    going back to topic:
    My views are, personally, that the gay person who was "cured" while I was on staff was just as gay as when he first arrived, but now had agreement in his denial by a group and felt good about it.
     
  17. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    LNS, did you ever meet Diane Ralph? I had loads of fun with her when she was on staff at Plymouth Org in the mid-80s.

    Anyway, she was in a gay relationship and one day was told she couldn't be on staff and live with her partner - it had to be one or the other. The last I heard, she'd left but you may know different.

    It wasn't completely daft as the relationship was a turbulent one (she turned up one day with a black eye) but the org made little attempt to handle the situation with affinity as far as I could see.

    (Amongst other things, she organised an impromptu disco one coffee break with the org's radiocassette player and a tape of Michael Jackson's "Thriller" which ended abruptly when the EO appeared on the scene).
     
  18. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    "Egg-shells vs hob-nail boots" is a comparison, not an absolute.

    Shoot you? Where shall I ask Cupid to aim?
     
  19. Lovesnightsky

    Lovesnightsky Silver Meritorious Patron

    :flirt: :blush:
     
  20. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Well perhaps Im not the only gay in the village (sorry Brittish joke).

    Homosexual men have a history of having to hide their sexuality. If someone knows who you are they can blackmail you, so you remain annonomous, the best way to get some relief and be unknown is to have sex in a public toilet. The walls in them had holes (this is throughout the UK) to put your little willy through. Some kind gentlman would often then stimulate your member with his lips.

    Half at least of the men there would be married, they would have said they were totally straight if you asked them. Their wives didnt want to be disturbed so they would pop along to the gents for no strings attatched relief.

    The self-worth you would have after such an encounter was probably not at the top levels. The whole thing was degraded and aweful. And where would you meet someone to have a relationship with, at work? In a pub? no there was very little chance of a monogomous relationship, but some did. I know couples that have been together for 35, 25 years.

    Now it's different you have streams of clubs and pubs aiming for the pink pound. Theres loads of free mags with contact details and of course the net. The bed hopping athlete is the image pushed, thats what we have to emulate now. Its more attractive than the beer gutted grey clad sad eyed old queens of the past but it's not healthy its just what sells. Germain Greer should come along and burn some gay Jock-straps!

    Promescuity has been in the history for so long amongst gays that it will be hard to shake. But a husband and wife are there to raise kids, it's hard for gay men to get pregnant, so the reason that straight men are tied to their wives just isnt there. The rules are not really there on how to have a relationship with someone of your own sex, and why should they be, surely the freedom to find what suits you and your partner is a good thing.

    Anyway the moral of my story is that if you are scared to reveal the truth about your sexual desires to people because of gaybashers, if you are affraid to talk to your parents about sexual matters. If when you do have sex youre lying on a piss stained floor, with some ugly stranger. Well are you going to have a big wide happy face or just be a tad fucked to start with. 1.1 on the tone scale would be on a very good day with all that to contend with!

    If youre straight, just try for a minute and imagine that the only permissable encounter of a straight sexual nature would be annonomously in a public toilet, wouldnt you end up like the needy perverts that Ron talked about.

    Ron called it a must have cant have, it makes you insane. Then he tells his gay staff and public that they cant have gay sex, the must have bits already wired in, so you get nutty old poofs.

    This is where I take my bow and say that I am what I am and I dont give a flying f**uck what anyone thinks, its my willy and I'll put it where I want!