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Hubbard'sNaval carreer in the South Pacific.

Discussion in 'L Ron Hubbard' started by Terril park, Apr 28, 2013.

  1. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Hubbard's Naval carreer in the South Pacific.

    This took 3-4 months full time to research. Hubbard's and many others Naval records

    from WW2 are incomplete, and he spent much of his time working for the Army

    and not the navy. He was also involved with intelligence activities which possibly

    meant some documents were not available.
  2. Chess

    Chess Patron with Honors

    Thanks for posting this Terril.
    I wonder if those with such determination concerning their view of Hubbard will allow the facts to get in the way of a good story.
    I've done some time myself in the military and it's easy to notice such massive organisations have many, many methods of recording information that the methods themselves are in a continual status or flux of being upgraded and reissued on a continual basis. Facts do get splattered and altered all over the place with interference as systems vary between the individual units, especially as time and technologies moves on. Throw intelligence and incompetance into the mix and the truth gets buried as it was never recorded accurately in the first place. That summary took a lot of painstaking research and I reckon will probably be the best example of what actually occured with Hubbard during the war years.
    I don't see how Hubbard can be proven to be a liar at all in view of that research, the Church sure tells some whoppers though in the name of PR.
  3. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    it seems odd that CO$ provides a "Notice of Separation from the U.S. Naval Service".
    The author assumes it was from Hubbard's personal records. But why would that be different from the Navy's version? I'll ask the author.

    Going through this I was astonished at how much paper work the Navy was generating.
    If they'd given their clerks a rifle the war may have ended a couple of years earlier.:)
  4. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Terril, that propaganda site is run by the cult! :eyeroll:
  5. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Hip Hip Hooray!! :duh:
  6. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

  7. Chess

    Chess Patron with Honors

    I think anyone who's spent a bit of time in any military machine, especially the logistics or upper command structure would agree that the many entities within those organisation have their own methods and agendas. It just takes a new commander with enough power and recording systems, ordering procedures (let's not forget good old fashioned corruption Sgt Bilko) and many types of subtlies and variances are introduced, let alone changing technolgies being introduced. If military intelligence is involved, God knows what secret agendas are being applied or brewed up. Now throw a war into the mix and records and procedures are handled with varying complexities, "loose lips sinks ships" applied scatters truth to the wind and even those in the know, end up believing their own lies. Read any two commanders reports of the same battle and they can vary wildly.
    All I'm saying really is take everything with a grain a salt and be causious of singular documents expecting them to be accurate, people like you and me were relied on back then to write reports and the element of robotism is alive and well in any military system.
    Paperwork - good God! the military loves the stuff, the more the better.
  8. SpecialFrog

    SpecialFrog Silver Meritorious Patron

    There are sites that try and appear critical that are still Scientology run. The domain is registered through a proxy to obscure ownership but both the CoS and critics have been known to do that.

    Terril, who did the 3-4 months worth of research?

    Also, Lawrence Wright's research survived a rigorous fact- checker and legal review. Without the same kind of oversight, what makes it more reliable?
  9. Rene Descartes

    Rene Descartes Gold Meritorious Patron


    For now I am going to say tl:dr but I shall find the time to read that as soon as I am able.

    My recent copy of Scientology News shows Britsh newspapers referring to LRH as Dr. Hubbard back when he first arrived at Saint Hill so my guess is that the missing pieces in the puzzle regarding the military is when Hubbard worked on his PHD and became a medico and nucleur physicist.

    Looking forward for the day that those documents are "uncovered" and the "truith" becomes known.

  10. Rene Descartes

    Rene Descartes Gold Meritorious Patron

    This thing about being flown home on a plane...

    Got me wondering...

    Was that before he was blinded and crippled...

    I'm probably getting facts mixed up.

    Or maybe I'm getting something else mixed up.

  11. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Your time track is balled you see...your pictures are scrambled....and so on......
  12. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    did you actually follow the links Terrill? In the one described about did he serve in combat - one link goes to "documentation" about Hubbared being the naval observer - the problem is that the link doesnt mention Hubbard. The rest iof that article is an attempt to make it yet one more "black pr" campaign against the great Lt Hubbard.

    How this man was not in charge of a battleship escpaes me.
  13. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    I was on jury duty a while ago. The accused was obviously guilty of what she was accused of. It was clear as could be. So what could her attorney do? He did everything he could to cloud the issue. He tried to confuse everybody so they would doubt everything. He was wonderful! He didn't give up until we finally came back with a guilty verdict.

    That's what the church and the Hubbard apologists are doing here. They have no actual proof that Hubbard did what he claimed and they have no way to refute the obvious fact that Hubbard was a complete fuckup throughout the war. Seriously, what a buffoon!

    So the church and apologists work very hard to muddy everything, cast doubt, confuse, misdirect. "He was involved with intelligence activities" is one of their favorite gambits. "It's classified, that's why there is no record!!!"

    No, there are no records of all the wonderful and heroic things that Hubbard did because he lied.

    Hubbard was a fuckup. It's obvious from the real records.

  14. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I believe a " Margaret Lake" was the researcher.

    Was 2 years of research. I asked for women weeks. :)

    Its not suprising that this area was not transparent.

    I'm yet to read Laurence's book. However he, and and any previous writer
    would be unlikely to spend so much time on what is in fact a minor footnote re Hubbard.
  15. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller




  16. SpecialFrog

    SpecialFrog Silver Meritorious Patron

    Okay, I proxied up and followed the link. I assume the author is "Margaret" from Marty's blog.

    Some of her previous attempts to prove that Hubbard's claims were true involved chaining together a series of unlikely interpretations of evidence. In order for her conclusion to be valid, each piece of the chain needs to be true when the most likely interpretation for each piece of evidence is not the one she is claiming. From the bits I've read it seems like this is more of the same.

    This is an attempt to find the right facts to support a position not to determine a position based on the facts.

    It is the methodology of Holy Blood, Holy Grail and its ilk but not of serious scholarship.

    Occam's Razor works and it helps people.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  17. Idle Morgue

    Idle Morgue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Does this mean Scientology and the tek are a scam too? :whistling:
  18. Idle Morgue

    Idle Morgue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Spoken like a true SP~! Thanks Bill - I agree - Hubbard was a total fuck up and so is all of scientology and it's Tek!
  19. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Mostly the Navy had Fucked up records. Detailed in OP
    and elswhere.
  20. Gib

    Gib Crusader