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Is any ex truly out?

Discussion in 'Life After Scientology' started by Claire Swazey, Mar 14, 2012.

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  1. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    Something I've been seeing some people say is "but is he/she truly out?". Every now and again someone says it and it got me to thinking. Now, we've already discussed what does and does not maketh a Scientologist and, by extension, an ex Scientologist. Emma created a very good very long running thread on it. It's a good topic, IMO.

    I wanted to look at this issue from the vantage point of is any given person (who says they're out) truly out?

    I think it's one thing to be out of CofS and another to be done with the whole entire thing.

    Perhaps it's best to make it simple. If they are out of CofS, they're out of CofS. If they have no interest in doing any FZ or Indie or self study of Scn, then they're out of Scn as well.

    How do we know? Because they've said so. They'll tell you so.

    Yes, people are still coming to terms with this stuff and that's why they come and lurk and post. The way they work it out for themselves varies greatly. It can make it difficult to see where they're coming from, so my proposed solution is to just take their word for it, should they answer that question.
  2. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    IF you are going to make that argument (and no, I don't recommend it :) ) THEN you also need to account for the fact that many of those who lay claim to being 'done with scientology' or 'having no interest in scientology' nonetheless still demonstrate at every opportunity how utterly fixated upon the subject they remain.

    Just as liking a thing doesn't equate with an obsession, neither is not liking evidence that one is not in fact obsessed.

    Mark A. Baker
  3. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

    Keep working at it. You'll grok it eventually.
  4. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Gold Meritorious Patron

    She didn't define fixated or obsessed. I happen to be obsessed with the total destruction of L. Ron Hubbard's con (ie) the Church of Scientology. I am fixated on that purpose. I spend an outrageous amount of time in this endeavor. Why? Because I am out.

    If a person defends any part of LRH's work, as far as I am concerned, they are not completely out. This includes Indies & Squirrels.
  5. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    Well, I'd just take the person's word for it. I've yet to meet an Indie or FZer who claims membership in CofS, whereas they will say if they are an Indie or FZer or whatever.

    So if they say they're an Indie, they're an Indie.

    If they say they're in the FZ, then they're FZ.

    If they say they aren't in CofS, then they aren't.

    If they say they aren't a Scientologist of any sort, then they're not.

    If they say fuck the whole thing, don't want any part of it, then they don't want any part of it.

    If they say they aren't sure what they're gonna do then they aren't sure what they're gonna do at this point.
  6. phénix

    phénix Patron with Honors

    If a person defends any part of LRH's work, as far as I am concerned, they are not completely out. This includes Indies & Squirrels.[/QUOTE]

    I agree

    I was also recently thinking about the involvment on ESMB, and thought that as long as I am still here then I'm not completly done with the Scn stuff...but it's part of the healing process ( talking with people that can understand and use critical/analytical thinking..)
  7. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    So by implication when hubbard wrote something which was true or made some other accurate remark it must nonetheless be discounted because he's the one who said it and anyone acknowledging the truth of the remark is a cultist. :eyeroll:

    Mark A. Baker
  8. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Embrace your cult identity. It's scary I know, but Total Freedom waits on the other side.

    PS. In case you are worried about having to give up religious beliefs.... oh no! MR Hubbard never said that at all.
    You're Moslem, is that right? Well, the Scientology cult is so much like your religion. In fact we even have Jihad. If you slaughter a couple of psychiatrists and break up the families of the infidels you will go to heaven where 10000 virgins will be waiting for you. And you don't have to die! It's called the Sea Org. Actually there may be just a few less than 10000, but by doing your job now you will help get the stats up and there will be 20000 virgins waiting. And they haven't even masturbated yet! (Without being harshly punished.) NOI? What's that? Oh it's Islam? Got cash? Credit card? Oh you're sooooo lucky...etc.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2012
  9. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Gold Meritorious Patron

    If Hubbard wrote something that was true, he stole it from someone else.
  10. OldTimingMan

    OldTimingMan Patron with Honors

    The trip IN took awhile, and so shall the trip OUT. Buy the ticket and enjoy the ride.
  11. phénix

    phénix Patron with Honors

    Why care about the truths he might have said?
    And by the way, anyone can have acccurate remarks: communication solves things!! Allelujah I'm a prophet!
  12. Jquepublic

    Jquepublic Silver Meritorious Patron

    I think there are different levels of "out" and that you either keep digging or you find a comfy spot and settle down. I've been "out" for 13 years now, and there have been plenty of moments in my life when I honestly felt that I had dealt with my Scientology experiences and moved on, but somehow it manages to resurface and I have to spend some more time figuring out wtf. :shrug:

    I will say this though. It's a brand new "wtf" that I deal with each time it happens. So I figure that's progress. :thumbsup:
  13. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    For me, acknowledging the truth of some of Hubbard's remarks and acknowledging his goodness for making those remarks would be akin to a starving rat praising the trapper who put out his very favorite food just in time to keep him from starving to death.

    Somehow the rat managed to dine on his favorite food and at the same time avoid the poison intended for him. And for the rest of his existence he remains grateful to the trapper.

    But if our rat looked a little closer he might see that the trapper didn't have such good intentions towards him after all.

    There is a abundance of evidence that the conman who set up shop selling Total Freedom didn't really intend for us to ever obtain it. Just because you and some others may have the ability to extract some cheese from the trap without getting poisoned or getting your neck snapped, not everybody does.

    And by acknowledging Hubbard as a source of truth and goodness you might be helping to create curiosity about that cheese for another person, but instead of tasting the cheese it doesn't end so well for him, like many of us here on the board. :omg:

  14. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    At this point, I'm wishin' for a post icon that's a dozen thumbs up. I really like what you said.
  15. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    Interestingly, the discussion has turned to those still doing or interested in Scn after leaving the cult. That doesn't surprise me and I think it's germane, of course.

    But, also, I have a perception that sometimes people wonder where someone else here stands about Scn stuff. I'm not thinking of a specific person- honestly. It's just something that gets said sometimes. I really think that in that case, best thing to do is ask the person and go with what they said.

    Now, as far as still not letting go of all of it, hell yeah. Lots of people doing that.

    So at this point, I've been looking to do something other than auditing. I found A Course in Miracles on the web and re-looked up the old ESMB thread about it. It interests me. But thing is, the exercises are a lot like auditing. This may mean I didn't fully let go. Or maybe it doesn't mean that. I just think it could be fun.
  16. Sharone Stainforth

    Sharone Stainforth Silver Meritorious Patron

    That's one mighty fine cheese board you have there type4_PTS

    Shame about the trap!
  17. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Gold Meritorious Patron

    Great picture of Tom Cruise ya got there.
  18. Idle Morgue

    Idle Morgue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Does placing the books, lectures,ACC's, Green Vol's, Red Vol's, e-meter, TWTH dvd's and books, everything dealing with Co$ in the firepit constitute OUT? :yes:
  19. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron


    You are confused. One can certainly be totally and completely "out of Scientology" and also work to expose the lies, crimes, abuse and fraud of Scientology. That, by the way, is not "fixation", that's just the desire for justice and the desire to help others.

  20. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    No. The statement that you are out is enough for me. No amount of evidence proves a theory true.