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Is DM really a "true believer?"

Discussion in 'David Miscavige and Current Management' started by scooter, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    With all the excitement of the wave of attacks on the Co$ over the last two months, the wonderfully no-contact-with-reality 80-page Freedumb mag and the predictable rise in trolling on this board I'm left to ponder this question: is DM actually a true believer in the doctrine of the cult or has He come to fancy He's actually better at it than Hubbard was and is now creating His own doctrine for the faithful?

    He's just spent god-knows-how-much defending Himself with the Freedumb mag that contained no pictures of Hubbard and no real mention of him either.

    He obviously wrote most if not all of that mag as His sick sense of humour is manifest right through it.

    He's altered the books, the Grades, the TRs - basically everything that was ever a "basic" in the cult has been DMed in some way.

    Even the trolls are running interference for DM rather than Hubbard and the Co$ these days - attacks on Hubbard draw an apathetic yawn from the Bridge dwellers but they sure came out in numbers when the SP Times hit town.

    So, does DM consider He is now Source?

    Or does He still believe in the wisdom and infallibility of his late mentor?:no:
  2. Kookaburra

    Kookaburra Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think DM believes in DM and not much else. He believes so intensely that he never stops for a moment to question or review any action he has done or decision he has made. Because he is infallible.

    He considers himself better than anyone, including LRH. After all, he has spent nearly 3 decades cleaning up and straitening out all LRH's mistakes.

    He has done a pretty impressive job considering he had to do the whole thing himself and without the benefit of hindsight (because DM never makes a mistake). :eyeroll:

    DM will be very surprised when he finally gets busted, tried and jailed.
  3. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    He believes LRH will come back. He didn't expect it to take so long however, because LRH took an extra life off to settle down after self-auditing messed him up.

    You don't have the original LRH materials so you cannot claim he has altered anything.

    He tried to fix a declining standard. You also cannot accuse DM of "altering the TRs" if LRH never made 100% correct filmed model examples.

    No, he never did. HOWEVER: The recent blows (Marty, Mike) changed his attitude from "covering the Church's ass" to "covering his own ass no matter what happens to the Church". That's a shift. Thus he will probably lose this time.
  4. Ted

    Ted Gold Meritorious Patron

    And the survey says...

    He has come to fancy Himself as actually better than Hubbard was and is now creating His own doctrine for the faithful. :thumbsup:


    He is too self-important to realize Scientology has long since passed it heyday and is now sinking fast. :clap:
  5. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    I was "briefed" by DM in the Crystal Ballroom at FSO prior to His "triumph" of the GAT release event - and He was telling us (the assembled Senior C/Ses of the planet) that HE had personally done all of the new drills etc etc - none of these things had ever been mentioned by Hubbard as part of any training line-up anywhere and DM gave us no references either that backed up His claim that these had been omitted by others after Hubbard had decreed they be done - He just said that He was now turning out "perfect auditors 100% of the time" now with this - and we all see the resulting International success of His training revolution.

    He further told us this was His army of sups and word-clearers He was sending out into orgs everywhere - His army. And He told us mere highly trained and experienced techies that we had all failed to see what He in His brilliance had seen and so we were wretched failures and should write O/Ws because we didn't come up with the GAT. I was there - were you?
  6. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    If he was a true believer I think he would have gotten himself further up "the bridge".

    Gut reaction is: of course he is not a true believer.
    He learnt things from his mentor. They were not spiritual, theological or philosophical. Just how to control and dominate people. That is what DM does best, gives him "wins" "indicates" on the lie detector.
  7. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    Where did LRH write something about the IAS? About volunteer ministers? About the new eMeter? Where did LRH ask for the formation of WISE? Where does LRH lay out the new Bridge ("New OT 15")?

    None of these things are described in the normal papers (HCOBs, HCOPLs etc). It's all a hidden data line since decades. So noone should be astonished about "drills not mentioned by LRH".
  8. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    Vice versa. He won't get himself up further because as a New OT 8 you wait until New OT 9 is released like LRH wanted it: All Orgs SH size etc... Thus if his level on the bridge proves anything then it proves that he is a true believer.
  9. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    No - people should be astonished that the IAS was formed and is being used as DM's personal slush fund.:yes:

    People should ask why WISE was invented without any Hubbard advices to say it should be done.:yes:

    Basically the Verbal Tech Checklist should have been placed on every seat before every event and then we'd see just how "standard" our Dainty Dave really is. Especially if you added to that the Hubbard advice that cancels Int events.:D
  10. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    He was mistaken. However, the changes in the books are rather minor. DMSMH didn't change a thing, for example. Scientific books are also rewritten when new material appears.

    Or that he (or someone) made a mistake or that new notes were discovered. Not a big deal. The books were only changed here and there. Books play a minor rank anyway. HCOBs/HCOPLs are far more important and hidden data lines are even more important ("Advices"). That Miscavige makes such a big deal out of it is the real misalignment.
    I know LRH made TR movies. However it seems that he was never happy with them. And they were all prior to new discoveries. After NOTs everything changed.
    David Mayo:
    He was trying to start in the movie business and the org was called Cine, the Cine Org, and they were supposed to make films. He was writing scripts, but the crew could never do anything right. It was a very, very violent period for the people working for Cine. They'd have to stay up all day and night trying to do something and him being dissatisfied. He would walk around with electric bullhorn to yell orders through, even if the person was only a few feet away. He'd tell them to build the set, describe the set. They'd build the set and were going to shoot. He'd arrive, decided he didn't like it, scream that they had altered it, he wanted it blue, not green! Some of the crew would be sent to the RPF and others were running round quickly, trying to find blue paint. Then he'd want to know why it was blue, not yellow.
    One of the main reasons why he got sick, I think, was that he had so many failures and so much frustration and was so upset over the movies that that's what he broke down and collapsed on. That seemed the most highly charged area.
    After he recovered and got up, he never got back into movie making as much as he had previously. He made me an actor in one of the movies. Sometimes I'd have to do the same line over and over again and it would never be right. Too loud, too quiet, not intense, too intense, why aren't you doing it enthusiastically? He might end up stamping off, away from the set, and screaming that all was impossible, no one would duplicate what he said. I'd be told to practice a line and get it right for tomorrow. Everyone was tiptoeing around, waiting for explosions.

    Well, auditors are usually no actors and actors are usually no auditors.
  11. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    Exactly. People complain about "New drills" while completely overlooking that a WHOLE BRIDGE has been put in place without any written explanation by LRH.
  12. Ted

    Ted Gold Meritorious Patron

    I have read these advices. They amount to a series of telexes from Hubbard to I ferget who. Anyway, he was a bit pissed that some people were making money off of his PL's assembled for training in the business community sans any mention of scientology or the church. His Holiness wanted a piece of the action. That in total was the inception of WISE.

    There is a Hidden Data Line. But, don't believe that every change or thing that looks weird is a product of that line.
  13. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    There are at least 3 hidden data lines.

    The first are the Flag Orders. While HCOBs and HCOPLs are neatly "booked" the Flag Orders (which run the Sea Org which runs the Orgs) are nowhere correctly compiled. I guess once they compile them they will call it the Platinum Age of Administration or so.

    Then there is Int Management with its own orders and action plans.

    Then there are LRH's advices.

    Thus LRH "adviced" something on a hidden data line which then runs Int Management which then runs the Sea Org which then interferes with normal Orgs. The data on this whole line runs is hidden.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  14. Ted

    Ted Gold Meritorious Patron

    In understanding organized scientology it is important to understand the effects/affects of the Hidden Data Lines.

    LRH told one group one thing, another group something else. He was the original Third Party.
  15. ULRC/S

    ULRC/S Patron with Honors

    While I consider it unlikely, as the current Scn game is too small, there is an extreme section of the Ron's Org who considers DM to actually be Xenu - as in his body was taken over! And when you look at what DM's doing to the tech, it's not so unbelievable.

    Everything that was theta and workable has been alterised into a unrecognisable set of rote proceedures, backed up by threats, stress & terror.

    Check DM out against the 12 social and 12 antisocial points in the VMH - tell me how he scores?

    It's easy to lable someone an SP, but how they score on these points is the hard core test.

    Regards, Allen
  16. Feral

    Feral Rogue male


    You know KNN, I used to think you were generally playing Devils Advocate on the board, setting up arguments that were 'straw men' for others to shoot down logically. But it's hard to tell a straw man argument from a church or DM apologist, their arguments and reasoning are so based on subjective and unsubstantiated opinions, they look like straw men.

    When I do read your posts I become convinced Emma was right about your motives.
  17. minnie

    minnie Patron with Honors

    David Miscavige is a law unto himself. He knows he is committing criminal actions and that he can only get away with it for so long. I'd say he lives in a hell of his own making, and that would involve intense anxiety over what the justice system of the 'wog world' will do to him as well as being haunted by the pronouncements by Ron in the PTS/SP and O/W "tech" , and as followed by his flock etc - given that that is the milieu he has existed in for decades, as well as promoted to others in an effort to control them.

    Basically, he would be fearful of just about anything knowing that his number is up. But I don't believe he is a true believer of scientology, just a victim of it as anyone would be who has been conversant with it for that length of time - you'd need a damn good cleaner to get that stain out. So, it would overtake his thinking at times in a kind of overt-motivatorish kind of way -it is not something that he would choose to believe in, in my opinion. If he believed in scientology he'd probably try to get the influence scientology has on him audited out, lol.

    It is his followers who are the most brainwashed. Miscavige himself is highly deluded, but in a different way due to other factors such as his megalomania and other mental health issues.
  18. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    You can hate Hitler but not because he ate children.

    The same applies to DM. You can hate DM because he beats his staff, but not because of speculated intentions regarding speculated books. You cannot invent stuff like "DM is bad because look how he perverted the books" when you have no original materials to compare the current books to.

    Moreover it's ridiculous to assume only evil intentions or conspiracy theories. I try to bring another viewpoint which is not automatically "DM = Evil".
  19. Feral

    Feral Rogue male

    There is a great deal of evidence that DM subjugated the church and took it in a new and contrary direction from that which Hubbard intended.

    GAT is a squirrel training method, DM is issuing squirrel SP declares for int base execs, the IAS as a money making activity is contrary to LRH policy, the ideal orgs scam,four international events per year, six month sec checks for OT VIIs, alterations to the way FPRD was run on OTs, the use of life histories, enforced abortion, breaking up marriages in the SO, disconnection ad infinitum, he has taken Ronnie's bad religious order and made it oppressive.

    Further, because Hubbard did have so many hidden data lines as you pointed out we have no way of knowing how else DM altered the unworkable ideas of the founder.

    We do know that scientology changed it's face since about 1980 to the point it's almost diametrically opposed to what the early books represent it as.

    The scientology that is represented in those books is the one I ordered, I never recieved it. I don't know if it ever existed as I got in around '80-81. I did see it change into a totalitarian group while I was there, prior to that it seemed to have far more of a true spirit as far as it's mission was concerned.
  20. Opter

    Opter Silver Meritorious Patron

    Is DM a "true believer"?

    Yes. he is a true believer of himself.