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Is it worth it to sue the church?

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by AryaZ, Aug 13, 2019.

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  1. AryaZ

    AryaZ Seeking truth and retribution

    I left around 2012. I'm still trying to figure out what to make of advice not to sue the church (when I had clear evidence that OSA instigated a fair game campaign to destroy my business). I was advised against suing, because "the church has a team of lawyers and infinite money," "no one ever wins". Would love feedback.
     
  2. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

  3. AryaZ

    AryaZ Seeking truth and retribution

    I recently read about Larry winning 30mil. I guess the church being to big to sue and win is a lie.

    I just can't understand why this person would advise against it.
     
  4. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Hi AryaZ,

    :welcome:

    CoS utilizes as many delaying tactics as possible, so it can take many years for a lawsuit to play out. Laura DeCrescenzo got a settlement from her lawsuit last summer, but it took about 9 years to get it!

    But every case is different. I would recommend consulting an attorney who has a deep understanding of the CoS and their legal playbook, and get yourself a consultation. An ethical attorney will tell you honestly what your chances would be and how long the process could take.
     
  5. AryaZ

    AryaZ Seeking truth and retribution

    I met with Mike Rinder and Christie at a restaurant for lunch just after I was declared for refusing to disconnect from declared SP's on Facebook, one of which was Debbie Cook. They were both very nice and listened to my sad tale. I stayed in touch with both Mike and Marty over the next 6months via hush mail and phone. I told Mike that OSA had a team of people contacting my friends and business associates demanding they disconnect from me and my husband. l forwarded screen captures and emails. The long and short of it was that I wanted to pursue legal relief and Mike (without hesitation) advised against it. He said that from his experience he never saw anyone win. So, when I found out people HAD WON cases in the past, I was shocked. What would he possibly have had to lose OR gain, by lying.
     
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  6. AryaZ

    AryaZ Seeking truth and retribution

    That would have been good advice then. Now it's past the statute of limitations, I'm sure. I do wish I had of pursued it then instead of taking Mike's advice -- regardless of how long it took.
     
  7. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    He may just have been giving you his honest opinion based upon his experience with the particular type of case you would of had. He's helped other people in their lawsuits against CoS.

    Anyways, there's nothing keeping you from consulting an attorney now, finding out about the statute of limitations, and if your case is worth pursuing.
     
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  8. AryaZ

    AryaZ Seeking truth and retribution

    Good advice.
    I have recently researched it and it appears to be past the statute of limitations.

    It just kind of stabs at me now, seeing the big push by the Aftermath guys to get people to come forward and join a class action type suit.

    It seems a little late on the chain, if you know what I mean.
    I wasn't the only one who was being hit extremely hard by OSA when Mike and Marty were doing their thing on "Moving on up a little higher".

    Now, I basically want new ppl to know they should contact an attorney first before contacting the Aftermath foundation. Don't be stupid like I was, by trusting someone who was in charge of OSA for 22 + years.
     
  9. AryaZ

    AryaZ Seeking truth and retribution

    Good advice.
    I've done some research on it and it does seem to be past the statute of limitations. It just kind of stabs at me now with the big push to get people to come forward and join a class action type suit. It seems a little late on the chain, if you know what I mean. I wasn't the only one who was being hit extremely hard by OSA when Mike and Marty were doing their thing on "Moving on up a little higher". I basically want new ppl to know they should contact an attorney first before contacting the Aftermath foundation. Don't be stupid like I was, by trusting someone who was in charge of OSA for 22 + years.
     
  10. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    If the Aftermath Foundation was willing to help me that would be the first place I would turn to for help.

    Their board members include 5 different people personally experienced with litigation against CoS, including Ray Jeffrey who would be my first choice as an attorney representing me in any litigation against CoS.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  11. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think it is fair to say that the COS calculatedly relies upon people needing time to decompress and rebuild their lives and resources. By the time they are to the point where they toss off the self-imposed censorship and research the net enough to realize it was all a con too much time has passed, memories fade, there is a lack of documentation, etc. Plus the courts have good reason to ask why people waited so long to take action. That doesn't look good and it is difficult to establish a legal basis for coercion and indoctrination as a reason with the COS because everything is so complicated.

    Scientologists also sign a lot of things like arbitration agreements that snare them in Catch-22s exactly for this purpose. They are not given copies and tend to forget what they signed but I can assure you the COS keeps them forever.

    If the circumstances are really obvious and severe then it might be worth a case but if Mike said it didn't look solid enough I'd probably trust his judgement.

    If they are still fair gaming (stalking by any other name) then you could set up cameras and do other things to prove your case. One thing I always thought was stupid about fair gaming is according to Scientology you are supposed to be at cause over everything. Assuming the causation for the need to stalk people isn't your fault in the first place, stalkers must react to stalkees. They have to go where you are and where you go. High res cameras are ubiquitous now. We are replacing our doorbells with them and they can be managed in real time from our phones. If our camera doesn't catch them someone else's will. It's not a good time for stalkers. Scientology policy on security states that you need to remain unpredictable. Becoming predictable is out-security. For example, their FBOs (Flag Banking Officers) use different cars and different routes and different times to make bank runs. But everyone knows so much about how they behave now that even their unpredictability has become predictable.
     
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  12. Emma

    Emma Con te partirĂ² Administrator

    It is good advice. Unless a critic is also a lawyer, then give critics a miss. I only know of a few who are both, but none have taken on Scientology. I know Ray Jeffries is no fan, and a good lawyer, but I wouldn't call him a "critic". It would be bad for him to appear too biased.
     
  13. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    If Mike Rinder said "they always win cases like this", then Mike Rinder is lying.

    He knows the CofS lost the Wollersheim case - for just one example.
     
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  14. AryaZ

    AryaZ Seeking truth and retribution

    I realized that suing the church could take years and there is always the chance of losing.

    However, Mike strongly discouraged me against it (not because he decided I didn't have a strong case)
    But as the expert on the matter, with all of his years experience in OSA, he claimed that suing the church in general was always a losing proposition. When I discovered that there were cases that the church lost or settled, I was confused as to why he wouldn't have at least suggested I speak to an attorney.
     
  15. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I remember when Marty and Mike were first out in 2009, 2010. They were on Marty's blog and they were announcing new people leaving the Church at least a few times per week.

    I could see that they were revising history in their blog posts and comments, while also not allowing criticism of Hubbard and the tech directly. At one point Marty even proclaimed "YOU WILL NOT BESMIRCH THE GOOD NAME OF L RON HUBBARD ON THIS BLOG!!!"

    LOL

    Marty also said at that time: "If you know of any crimes, don't go to law enforcement - just tell us. We don't want the government involved - they just stamp all over everything."

    That freaked me out.

    I was also wondering what they were telling these newly out people behind the scenes about their lawsuits and their evidence of criminal behavior.

    If this is typical of the legal advice they were giving newly out Exes, then my worst suspicions seem to have been correct.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  16. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    There's more to it than that. It's not like you find an attorney willing to take it on (on a contingency fee basis, no money upfront), give him all the dox he needs, say go, get on with your life, then a year or ten down the road that's the end of it one way or the other.

    Until it's resolved you're in the cult's crosshairs, which, depending on how dangerous/annoying they consider you are (and what else is on their plate) will probably involve a lot of aggravation and mental/emotional stress.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  17. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    And yet that wasn't Mike Rinder's advice.

    AryaZ said:

     
  18. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Realistically speaking, if what they did was to tell other Scientologists that continuing to associate with you would adversely affect their standing in the Church, then winning may be unlikely.

    If you could PROVE they spread false and defamatory stories about you, that's another story, but if all they did was say that you were no longer in good standing, it would be difficult to make a case.

    I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.
     
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  19. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    . . .
    My two cents . . . .

    There are some things in life that you just walk away from and never
    look back. A divorce, a bad job, a bad business deal. Part of your life
    might have been ruined by these situations, yes. How much is it worth
    to soil maybe a decade more of your life in depressing litigation and
    ongoing upsets and a black cloud hanging over your head?

    I'd just write it off as "life-lesson learned" and move on to better things.

    That's what I've done in most situations. Life is just too short.
     
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  20. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    Didn't it take twenty years of court battles and lawyering though?
    The stress and distraction might have absorbed two two decades
    of his life. Was it worth it? Just sayin'.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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