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Is there any good in Scientology?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Wedinn, Dec 28, 2018.

  1. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Compelling? For whom?

    By the way, the apostrophe in your 'its' is superfluous. Stratty - grammar nazi IC.
    Bill likes this.
  2. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you for some clear simple answers.

    The last question is the one which generates more complex response as well the ideas that have shaped and altered my mind set over the years though we are both of an age when serious change of belief is common.

    Scientific verification is a two edged sword. Hitler provided scientific verification that murder factories could be engineered in modern civilization for the extermination of a substantial and significant minority. Nor is scientific verification ever going definitively to express the meaning of great works of art either from the perspective of the producer or the consumer. What was invariably verified for centuries in Newton's work tumbled end over teakettle with Einsteins' (no typo on the apostrophe, his old lady punched in big time on Relativity)

    And arriving now at matters of the mind and spirit and even more the heart and soul...

    Science? Thou art a scaly creature of fang and claw.

    What might you say of mind and spirit, heart and soul and That Which Is Greater Than Ourselves?

    A zen silence is probably the best any of us can pony up but in short and incomplete I'm a christian and an auditor

    And adding in your most recent comment...

    I'll speak for no one else but I'm not The Lone Ranger and Billy Blowdown isn't Tonto.
  3. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    O yeah...

    I'm not going to try to convince myself much less anyone else that the brash redhaired kid from the western plains was not a con man and a shyster (though if I were to check the definition of shyster he might dodge that bullet). And he earned a devil's dictionary of other pejoratives as well.

    But his fields wheat along with chaff for those who shall take his issue to the threshing floor.

    P.S. Next time you see The Grammar Nazi Officer, tell her I have a vintage cask of Amontilado she might like to sample some quiet evening...
  4. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    You get clear simple answers because I'm a clear simple person.

    By the way, it's Einstein's theory not Einsteins' theory. Sorry.

    Mind yes, spirit no. Heart yes, soul no.

    Furthermore, I know I harp on about it, but you rubbish science at the same time as it is science itself which has provided you with the means to do it - by which I mean your computer (or in your case the library's computer).

    And doubtless you wish to remain willfully ignorant instead of taking up my suggestion of asking a library assistant how to cut and paste.

    Oh, and as for the Amontillado, I don't drink, sorry. You'll have to devise another cunning plan.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  5. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I certainly do not rubbish science. I am very much a scientist myself and as I have reported I used proper scientific method after my best friend's death to predict a method of early detection independently verified by MGH with the predicted blood test.

    Such things as art and the spirit don't rend their more profound truths to scientific method.

    Common usage does have it as Einstein's theory. He published his wife did not. I and many others accept Einstiens'
  6. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Close, but no cigar - sorry. :biggrin:

    By the way, music is all about mathematics and painting and drawing involves perspective, two very scientific factors I believe.
  7. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Not you, you're the I/C

    And if the officer is also a teetotaler, why should I devise when the collected works of Poe have so much suited to a Grammar Nazi Officer.

    Mrs. Einstein produced a huge contribution to Relativity


    Her name isn't on the paper

    You win.

    And I prefer cigarettes joints and exotic pipes
  8. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    It is a well known fact that Albert's wife contributed to his research. Too bad her name didn't get on the paper, perhaps it was because she was a woman. Speaking of which, Jocelyn Bell was responsible for "one of the most significant scientific achievements of the 20th century" but failed to get her fair share of the Nobel prize awarded to her male colleagues; probably for the same reason. Life sucks don't it?
  9. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    boolean logic, if hubbard's best seller was true, that would a "1",

    that ain't true, hence it get's a "0". Mathematics.

    Hubbard's DMSMH ain't on no best seller list as we speak. That's a "0".
  10. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    My ex wife had it when she was 13 for behaviour management. In my opinion, she should have been shot not shocked. (Well, not really).
    Didn't find out about it until we were married. Among a host of other little goodies that she kept rather quiet.
    ECT is done only for severe things now under strict conditions and most importantly, with the patient's consent. I also believe it is performed under a general anaesthetic as well, which greatly reduces patient distress.

    At least it is in Oz.

    Here's a little personal story:

    All I know about Thorazine is that it is an anti psychotic mainly used for treating bipolar and schizophrenia.
    Perhaps the question to be asking here is what is life like without it? I should imagine for some it would be a godsend and for others, the opposite. No one thing ever fits all.
  11. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    Yeah I remember watching those shows as a kid.
    Sonny didn't have a lot of nice things to say about her either.

    But I also believe he thought he owned her, as would have been the prevailing attitude of the day.

    Who to believe? Maybe both..
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
    JustSheila likes this.
  12. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    You, CP, a scientist?


    Seriously, seriously?

    Seriously, seriously serious?

    I think that'll do for now....
  13. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes sir.

    Very seriously. I am well grounded in scientific principles and method and can apply them with result.

    I am also into that which transcends science; art, philosophy, ethics, religion, faith, the heart, astrology, tarot, baseball and the next pretty girl to speak of luau and grass skirts with her hips as she moves gracefully down Haight Street
  14. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    My father was electrozapped twice and died at 53.

    I was railroaded into the clutches of the shrinks in '75 and again in '80 and dianetics was a big part of undoing most of the damage the filthy materialist shitbuckets inflicted
  15. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Our esteem of dianetics is at wide variance Gib.

    What's your opinion of Bogart?
  16. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Music is about whatever the musician makes it about

    And I suspect the mathemeticians would be hard pressed to come up with alogorithms to corral Janis Joplin or Lady Day.
  17. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    Yep, the institution was a minefield of abuse and ignorance back then, you'll get no argument from me there. There are horror stories from both sides of the Iron Curtain from these places.

    It has changed a lot since then, but Mental Health is not an exact science where everyone fits into neat and precise little slots. So there is still a long way to go.

    Which demonstrates that the field is willing to learn and evolve as needs. Scientology could never do either, so it still operates on a 1950s model which is largely debunked nowadays. It is also based on old school military style (the church), which isn't very conducive to anyone's mental health in a positive sense.

    That's my thoughts. I know from previous discussions that have happened between myself and others here with you that you are never going to let it go. That's your choice. However, it is a circular discussion that will never be closed and for myself, pointless to pursue.

    Peace to you Clay, I wish you all the best.

    BTW, sorry about the little dig at you earlier, I just couldn't resist it. Please take it in good humour as it was intended.
  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Dianetics and it's students are one of the most significant factors in psychiatric reform and for all the debunking many dianetic principles remain fresh and pertinent.



    They've built a cult at the center of CoS where the answer to all things is found in the words of Ron.

    No apology necessary. In my first new member intro I said I am an auditor and as unapologetic as I am about that No one need apologize to me for any comments directed at my beliefs or me.
  19. NoIdea

    NoIdea Patron with Honors

    there is a ton of good stuff in Scientology. also a ton of crap. be prepared to do some serious critical thinking. and realize that critical thinking will be forbidden. and the net value of the good stuff you do get is not worth the sacrifices you will make to be an active scientologist. the equation says: avoid.
    Bill likes this.
  20. Yes — and I suggest what is called The OT Library and That is just to start with ~ there is a set of volumes which has his entire collected written works and for what you are achieving already by posting here I strongly suggest The SHSBC ♦ Done on the deck of MV Freewinds you can have accommodations for only those who can handle truth → in 10 minutes I might be able to catalog ten of these things that I have been in ← this is a good one & I do not consider Pat Broker or the materials written by others to be a sufficient replacement for what others have suggested here as I breezed through THE ENTIRE ADVANCED MATERIALS that have the supposedly scary III Materials finding nothing new that I had not considered in what other practices describe as The Awakening ~ somewhat resembling a Cog { cognition in the literature } we have these somewhat occasional blowout moment which have HV Theta as an almost Pure Wave

    ♦ I looked for and never found Cannibals - in the formalized Scientology Practice though it is vaguely discussed inter-alia in HOM == I latched onto SOS like Clay Pigeon and have considered other works as Primate — such as 8-80 — but the current work as it is being directed by DM is only an REIT

    For example the 75 million year thing is the Kt Impact Crater and Wall of Fire can thus be found to be a very normal Paleontology study but the Routine 6 End Words gets in to or is said to be the Sedona thing which is the only thing that can even produce a somatic on me and this is a very-heavy one — that I have studied — and find Hubbard-s off-world pulp-fiction to be lacking for real value where it can be found ♦ Given that any explanation of BT in the context of Space Opera cannot be supported by what has occurred on this dust-ball; It can only be that exotics beyond what he authored are the true facts and that can be very heavy just like he says ○ such things as the Lockjaw produced by the machines described in exotic upper-indoc literature are — for me — mild comparable to the blowout that can be achieved by really discovering what is going on

    Hubbard is nothing all that special as a Melchizedek goes yet he is onto something
    Clay Pigeon likes this.