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Johnd's story

We'd go in session. Our "PC" (Pre-clear--person we were auditing) was happy, all went fine. Then you turn your "folder" (with an on-going write up of the session) in to the "C/S"--case supervisor. In this case it was Ray Mittoff, who later became THE top dog for Tech.

Ok, we'd get our folders back from the "Senior C/S" and it would say in big letters:


FLUNK!

I'm NOT kidding.
There was a C/S in New York Org, Bruce Levington, who did similar stuff, such as when the auditor got a "well done by exam" would write those words with a tiny fine point pen so you could barely read the words, or write FLUNK large enough to fill most of a sheet of paper. A "well done by exam" is when there were errors in the application of the auditing tech by the auditor, but the pc was happy enough with the session that he /she would have a floating needle at the after session examiner. Per Hubbard's tech, you could never flunk a session that got a f/n at exams, so Bruce found creative ways to express his displeasure. For the record, many c/s's didn't go to those extreems.

Bruce was very passionate about the application of tech, and I remember stories of him as an auditor, in contest with other auditors, trying to see who could put the PC in session the most, who could get the most gains. He once gave me an R-factor ( a statement to the PC from the c/s) and I swear, the room disappeared and it was just him and me. I don't think I have ever in my life been in the presence of a person I felt was so interested in me, and cared more about me, than I did at that moment. Afterwards, he was his regular self again. Amazing. He could turn that on like a switch.

I wonder what ever happened to him?

Mimsey
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes. The output format is wmv, which YouTube easily accepts. You would need the Professional version to record video, but I think you can download it and try it out for free.

Paul

So you mean a professional version of SKYPE?

Thanks, Paul!

Tory/Magoo
 

Johnd

Patron with Honors
Re: Johnd's story part 5

Johnd’s story part 5

A Trip to the Mecca of Threat and Pretense

Fall, 1971. As instructed, I watch my bags being taken out to the plane I’m about to board at Los Angeles International Airport. I see them on the baggage lorry and watch as they’re put into the cargo hold. I’m not entirely sure why I have to do this, but it’s what the guy at the Guardian’s Office told me to do. As far as I know, I’m carrying no confidential documents, but I am carrying a couple of packages from the Guardian’s Office, Scientology’s secret service, dedicated to defending the cult and smiting its enemies. I’m on my way to the Apollo to do some special training. The G.O has given me a ‘cover.’ I’m working for ‘Operation Transport Corporation,’ (which I understood to be a real shell corporation chartered in Panama) and I’m on my way to get managerial training on the corporation’s ship, which is in reality scientology’s not so mysterious flagship, the Apollo, floating home of L. Ron Hubbard since 1967.

The ‘cover story’ is a little disturbing as it means there was some sort of problem with identifying myself as a scientologist going to study scientology. I wondered what the problem could be. I assume it’s something to do with keeping activities aboard the ship secret so as not to attract the attention of the enemies of human progress. But the ‘cover’ seems silly and unnecessary. Anybody could penetrate it. I stop the thought process before it goes too far. I’m flying via Madrid to Portugal, a car ride from where the Apollo is docked. When I land in Portugal, a customs official rips open both of the packages I was carrying for the G.O. One appears to contain canned orange juice, the other what looks like a couple of auditing folders. The guy asks me if they are for the ‘capitan.’ I say yes, and he lets me go. I’ve never figured out why I was carrying canned orange juice.

Two guys from the ship meet me at the airport and drive me to the Apollo in a tiny Fiat.

I’ve been sent to ‘Flag’ from Celebrity Centre Los Angeles to do a special pilot course called the Tech Establishment Officer Course. I’m told it’s based on a recent philosophical breakthrough Hubbard has made in the field of management know how. I will be among the first staff members to do the course. When I finish the course I’ll come back to CCLA and implement what I learn. I don’t know why I was chosen for the honor. I’ve only been on staff in the S.O. for a year. I had been doing training in preparation for becoming an auditor. Suddenly I’m on my way to ‘the ship’ to do administrative training. There’s irony in this circumstance, as you shall see.

We arrive at the Apollo and board. I’m shown to what will be my berthing. On the way we pass a scary, scowling officer. Cropped beard, small, lean and in blue. Steely, dictatorial pomp in his gaze. Is he an OT? OTs maybe don’t need to be polite? Is he perceiving my withholds? My recurring doubts? Does he see me as some sort of near wog weakling? My guide quickly introduces me as an arriving student and the officer nods and gives a polite welcome, his demeanor changing somewhat. My guide explains who the officer was and his high rank. I don’t care right now though. I want to get to see what Flag’s vaunted delivery of training and processing looks like. I want to see what happens when scientology is applied to the hilt, as it must be here in the presence of the founder.

The ship is fairly dingy. That doesn’t bother me because I know it’s an old reconditioned ship and it would have been a waste of resources to buy a new one. The berthing is cramped and dorm style. This does bother me. I really don’t like sleeping in the same room with other guys, but I tell myself the course will only take a few weeks. I’m in a daze. Here I am on the ship with Ron. The ship seems unimpressive. I have to room with a bunch of guys. The crew I’ve met so far don’t seem that friendly, in fact there seems to be too much rank, threat and servility. I don’t know what to make of it. What the f(&^. I’ll just do the course and we’ll see what happens. Maybe it’ll all become clear later.

Next day I route onto the TEO course. As I recall, the course room was in an area near the bow of the ship. At times when the ship was underway in big seas, the course room would pitch up and down. Looking back on it, this was really the most enjoyable part of the TEO course—a ride with crashing sound effects.

Briefly, scientology class rooms beyond the introductory level are very different from most classrooms outside of the cult. Instead of listening to a live lecture and asking questions or doing lab work, students sit reading Hubbard’s written works or listening to recorded lectures or doing other prescribed exercises. Instead of a teacher, instructor or professor, the scientology course room has a ‘supervisor,’ whose job it is to observe the students as they study and ensure that they are moving through their course ‘checksheets.’ (A list in order of the things a student must read, hear and do to complete a course.) If a student asks a question about the course materials, he/she is never answered but referred to the appropriate Hubbard reference. In fact it is a serious transgression to answer a student’s question. Any interpretation whatsoever of Hubbard’s materials is a serious and punishable offense. The idea is that scientology students need to learn scientology directly from Hubbard, who is seen as the sole ‘source’ of scientology.

The ‘reasoning’ behind this is a bit sketchy, but let me do my best to explain it. Hubbard claimed that he had been and was the only one capable of developing workable mental/spiritual therapy. Others had made organizational contributions, but no one but Hubbard had been up to uncovering and remedying the hidden causes of what Hubbard saw as the disempowerment of once vastly powerful beings he called ‘thetans.’ (Rhymes with satans.)

This is the rock upon which scientology is built: We were once beings with immense powers of creation and perception. We lost these powers over the millennia through a series of convoluted catastrophes, and as a result now have to endure the pain and fearful uncertainty of human existence. Hubbard was somehow gifted with superior perception and was, despite great danger, able to unravel the fantastically intricate trap in which we thetans were stuck and actually chart a way out. Or rather a way BACK to our native state of total freedom. Others had tried and failed utterly as they just weren’t bright enough. Only Hubbard had succeeded. The result was scientology ‘technology,’ an array of highly directive psychotherapeutic procedures run by a practitioner called an ‘auditor,’ plus a number of ‘confidential’ techniques that one did without an auditor.

Obviously the ‘only way out’ of the trap, ‘the road to total freedom’ was precious beyond reckoning. The procedures had to be applied with absolute fidelity to Hubbard’s instructions. To do otherwise would be to deny freedom to billions of trapped ‘thetans.’

In scientology this central cluster of assertions is repeated over and over: Ron was the only one capable of discovering the cause and remedies of thetans’ downfall. His technology really works, if applied correctly. Failure to correctly apply the tech is equivalent to denying freedom and salvation to others. If you don’t get spectacular results, the technology hasn’t been correctly applied, and the fault lies with someone other than Hubbard, quite possibly you.

If these ideas become ingrained--as they do through constant repetition, and other manipulative means—life actually becomes scary and guilt ridden for the most dedicated scientologists. Failure is of course constant and you tend to either blame yourself or become adept at scapegoating, punishing and threatening others.

From the assertion that Hubbard was the sole source of mental/spiritual betterment and that others were too stupid, it somehow followed that LRH could be the only teacher/lecturer, perhaps because another, stupider being might alter Hubbard’s meaning, misinterpret it or even worse, enter his/her own invariably wrong thinking into the teaching. (I’m not saying that it really follows logically. It is actually contradictory to say that other scientologists, despite the enabling benefits of the ‘tech’ are unable even to teach scientology.) Being a Scientologist meant that you accepted the basic ‘scource’ premise and with it the idea that you got scientology only directly from ‘source.’ (See Hubbard’s long rant in “Keeping Scientology Working,” at http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=168&Itemid=9 and elsewhere on the net.) Somehow this idea was also extended to Hubbard’s writings and lectures on mundane administrative aspects of scientology.

Thus free discussion of scientology by scientologists banned as it would involve interpretation. Student questions may be answered only by reference to Hubbard’s writings or recorded lectures. If a student has a question, the supervisor’s stock response is ‘What do your materials state?’

If a student expresses disagreement, seems to be making slow progress, yawns, seems to lose interest, or seems to be sitting there thinking, the supervisor intervenes by asking the student to look for and clear up any ‘misunderstood words.’ If this doesn’t seem to work, the student is sent to a specialist called the ‘word clearer’ who usually puts the student on the ‘e-meter’ and finds ‘misunderstood’ words and gets them defined in a dictionary. The words might be special scientology words or words in the regular language.

This by the way was EXTREMELY effective in my experience, though mostly not in a positive way. It redirects independent thought about the subject inward toward self-correction and thus interrupts the thought process. Also, it is VERY, VERY easy to find misunderstood or partially understood words on people. We have TONS of them. Languages contain hundreds of thousands of words, many words have multiple meanings and meanings change with context, usage and the passage of time. Different people often use words differently. Word meanings are not fixed. You can just about always find ‘misunderstoods.’ That’s the little secret. So, having found and cleared up a definition or two, the student feels a bit brighter of course because he learned something. The student also tends to accept the experience as proof that any deviation from simply learning what the materials say is caused not by confusing materials but by misunderstood words because words are just about always found. The student’s thought process has been effectively halted and suppressed. So a positive activity—learning vocabulary--is turned on its head and made into a thought stopping, introverting activity.

So, picture the course room. Students are seated at tables, reading Hubbard’s materials. They are using ‘demo kits’—bits of odds and ends that the student uses to ‘demonstrate’ in a visible way the often very elusive and invisible subjects of Hubbard’s teachings. Some are doing ‘clay demos,’ modeling key ideas in clay to make them seem to have a basis in reality. They are frequently looking up words. Some students are in pairs doing drills on the specific procedures they will employ when they finish their courses. A student is at the ‘word clearer.’ Other students are giving each other ‘checkouts.’ ( A ‘checkout’ is a specific procedure used to ensure that students understand what Hubbard says and have an idea of how they can apply it in life, without questioning what Hubbard says.) The supervisor is walking around the course room holding a clipboard with pink paper clipped to it. At the start of course time, the supervisor goes around to each students and sets a ‘target’ of how far along on the checksheet the student will get to by the end of course time. This done, she/he prowls the course room until she sees a student perhaps failing to use a demo kit, or a dictionary, doing an improper clay demo, not exactly following Hubbard’s instructions on how drills are done, doing an improper ‘checkout.’ Then she writes up a ‘pink sheet’ and hands it to the student. The pink sheet is an order for the student to restudy Hubbard’s teachings on whatever the student was doing wrong. To put it mildly, it’s a pretty controlled setting. I had seen it before of course, but on the Apollo the experience was much more serious. There was little humor, and to me, lots of implied threat. A sense that I had to get through the course in the expected time or the consequences would be very bad. After all, the future of the universe was at stake.

Imagine also if you will, feeling the taboos and commandments you’ve gradually adopted as a scientologist. No discussion. Refer only to Hubbard’s words. If something doesn’t make sense, look up words, ‘demo’ the idea, finally, think of a possible interpretation that might make sense, but don’t discuss it or ask the supervisor if she thinks it’s right. Don’t sit there thinking. If you have problems with the materials you just can’t resolve, see the word clearer and get reoriented. Keep in mind that Hubbard’s materials are revolutionary and profoundly workable. When you master the materials you will feel a euphoric confidence, as people completing courses pretty routinely testify. Keep negative comments to yourself as these will get you into lengthy study and ‘ethics’ ‘handlings.’

(To be continued)
 

Johnd

Patron with Honors
Re: Johnd's story part 5 continued

Johnd’s story part 5 continued

At the end of course, and sometimes at the beginning, the supervisor, or maybe it was the Director of Training often berated the students in an angry, scolding way that I hadn’t seen before in LA. The cause of the berating sessions: Down course completion stats and/or down student points. She would go on and on in what I remember (probably unfairly) as a buzzy, clock alarm voice. I wondered how this small woman had learned to shout like that. She would scold us as I recall about how we or at least a lot of us should be ashamed of our lack of production. How we lacked gratitude for all ‘this man,’ (motioning toward Hubbard’s portrait) had given us. How could we be so downstat as to cause her to have down stats and thus disappoint Ron? We were so very disappointing when the stats were down.

I should have realized that the poor woman had someone above her berating her and that the chain of abuse had to lead to a ‘source.’ She was just doing what she was supposed to do in Hubbard’s system: force people to produce numbers. That meant often yelling at people and questioning their true intent, accusing them of degraded laziness, lack of gratitude, angrily and publicly expressing disapproval. That was just how it worked. I hope she got out and recovered. There were as I recall quite a few of these harangue sessions. I got to the point where I would just sit there, look a bit chastened and try to remember not to smirk or yawn.

There was a happy side though. Course completions were announced at the end each day. If you completed a course you were expected to give an oral testimonial before the rest of the students. If you had some realization or moment of clarity or just felt good about something you were encouraged to give a ‘win.’ By social convention, and because you’d get into serious trouble, testimonials and wins had to be positive and had to express or imply some new certainty and gratitude to Hubbard and his ‘tech.’ Everyone in the course room would applaud wins and completion testimonials.

You’re probably wondering what the Tech Establishment Officer course was about and why people were sent to the Ship at obvious expense to do it. (I don’t recall how many other students were on the course, but I distinctly remember three of them.) Here’s the basic theory as I understood it.

Ron realized that executives in organizations have to do all sorts of different things. These functions can be broken down into three general categories:

1. Take overall responsibility for the organization or section of an organization and its productivity.
2. Force the organization to produce staticizable things. Stats had to go up, up, up or else.
3. Organize the place so that production could occur.


The benefit of this grouping of functions is that you can break up the exec’s job into three jobs and assign a different individual to each job. In Hubbard’s view, this would somehow result a supercharged organization with vastly increased production. The one overall in charge was called the Commanding Officer or Executive Director. Next in authority was the ‘product officer,’ who demanded and forced production. And junior to the product officer was the ‘Org Officer,’ who was responsible for organization. There was and probably still is a very long course on this new system called the ‘Flag Executive Briefing Course.’ At the time I went to the ship, scientology organizations were sending lots of people to the ship to do the ‘FEBC.’

At some point in 1971, Hubbard began to think that perhaps the ‘Org Officer’ post should be further broken down because in reality, the ‘OO’ was acting as assistant product officer and ‘orgs’ were still in a constant state of disarray, with too few personnel actually delivering paid ‘services’ and too many personnel trying to do administrative jobs with little to ‘administer.’ The solution Hubbard thought might be to add another administrative person to the upper bureaucracy whose job it was to recruit, train and post the right personnel. The fact that such personnel already existed was of no consequence. Hubbard thought that maybe you had to actually have someone posted inside of each scientology division to handle ‘establishment’ of the division. The main delivery division in scientology ‘orgs’ is called the ‘TECH’ division. Hubbard had decided to try training and posting a new kind of exec. in the tech divisions around the world as a ‘pilot project’ to see if the idea worked. The exec would be called the The Establishment Officer. I was to be one.

Ironically, I had been yanked from a pool of auditors in training to prepare for a post in the scientology bureaucracy which was to remedy the scarcity of trained auditors. You may already be getting an idea of the strange and empty uselessness of what I was training to do. Later on I’ll briefly describe my mercifully very short career as Tech Establishment Officer at CCLA.

So I went on course and studied these and other key scientology ideas. I heard tapes in which Hubbard lectured some flag staff in friendly almost intimate tone about the basics of the product/org officer system. I recall nothing of substance from the tapes and in retrospect I don’t think there was anything. But I felt like I was getting the real lowdown from my genius uncle on how the world really worked. It was like watching a movie and thinking that life really was like that. But it was just Hubbard asserting that he had at last solved the problem of organization. We were supposed to imagine that we understood the secrets of organizational ‘tech.’

I studied a lot of Hubbard’s issues on how scientology organizations were to be set up and run. It was in reality mundane and extremely boring and redundant stuff. I got and gave checkouts, did clay demos, did drills and generally avoided the supervisor’s scrutiny. I had an eerie, empty feeling, as if I was really studying almost nothing and was adrift in some vast, dark emptiness. I hid this. Most of the other students seemed cheery and industrious. I quietly went along with that. After all, I had a sort of faith that everything would resolve eventually.

During the weeks I was on course I came to notice a pattern in the completion testimonials and even in the volunteered wins given at the end of course. The basic message was consistently, ‘Now I have complete certainty that I can return to my org and take ‘production’ to a whole new level. I’m now sure I can handle any problems that get in my way. I’ve learned so much I can hardly believe it. Thanks to all the great staff here at Flag and thanks especially to Ron.’ Most of the people it seemed to me were sort of ‘beaming.’ That is, they seemed to have a real enthusiasm and to really believe what they were saying. This gave me a problem. I worried about what I would say when I finished the TEO course. I never volunteered wins. I was weak on the ‘total certainty.’ I soon became enthusiastic about getting off the ship, but not about having the ability to do wonders when I went back to ccla. What would I say when I finished the course? I figured it had to be a modified version of what everyone else was saying. Did I think the people giving wins were full of it? Well, I hoped they weren’t. But I worried about my ability to be sincerely enthusiastic when I finished the course.


By the way, there were many people doing different courses in the same class room. All of the courses in this course room were, as I recall, administrative or ‘admin’ courses. That meant that students were studying principles and techniques for use by ‘managerial’ personnel as opposed to ‘tech’ courses, which taught the techniques used by scientology ‘auditors’ and techniques used by course ‘supervisors’ and ‘word clearers.’

Once Hubbard himself walked briskly through the course room, accompanied by two little girls, maybe 12 years old, one of whom was holding his ashtray. He was big and portly and his hair was an orange-pink—no longer red, but not yet gray I thought. The pink haired guru with the little girls, who should have been in school in slavish attendance, was a moment of utter strangeness. I don’t recall how I dealt with it. Maybe a combination of ‘I’m completely stuck here, so let’s not think about it’ and ‘they probably go to school on board the ship and tag along with Hubbard in their off hours.’ I didn’t think about what having little girls as servants could have to do with saving the universe.


On the course ‘practical’ section, I’m out walking around the ship. One of the things I did was make up a questionnaire to be answered by the C/Ses. Quentin Hubbard was at that time a C/S. (I don’t recall what the hell the questions were, just that they were about support facilities that were supposed to exist for the c/s. It was a survey to find out what was OK and what could be improved. I couldn’t enter the c/s office so I had I think the folder admin or somebody bring my questions in to him. I think there was a column of questions on the side of a sheet and little lines arranged in vertical yes, no columns that could be checked, and space at the bottom for comments. Within a couple of minutes my questionnaire came out. All questions were checked ‘yes,’ and there were no comments. Quentin had not really had time to even read the questions and had just hurriedly checked everything 'yes.’ Not good for me as I needed something to actually fix to complete the practical section. I figured I needed to ‘impinge’ a bit more if I was to make it through my checksheet.

Later I saw Quentin again. I was walking behind him and he didn’t notice me. He had a book I think in one hand and was holding it out in front of himself, and as he walked, he made graceful banking and turning motions with the book. I realized that he was off in another world imagining that he was flying a plane. I had sometimes done the same thing in younger years. When he noticed me he abruptly stopped. Was Quentin just an imaginative kid trapped on the Apollo? I stopped that thought.

It’s vague in my memory, but I recall that I wound up making a checklist of things to check for in the auditing department (called the Hubbard guidance center). Someone would be able to go through the checklist and presumably find specific areas that could be improved. This seemed to go over well, and I got a ‘pass’ on the practical section. As I recall, I was getting close to my ‘targeted’ completion date and it was approaching 2:00 p.m., Thursday, the point at which the week ended and completion stats had to be counted. Stats to the rescue!

On the positive side, the food was generally pretty good. It was cafeteria style and I recall often waiting in line. I have a memory of excellent pancakes. I also recall one particular time. I was in line a few people behind one of the highest classed auditors on the ship and for that matter in the world. He was also a high level officer in the sea org. Somebody was goofing around and accidentally bumped into him. The auditor flew into an abusive rage, screaming at the hapless student for not showing the proper respect due to rank. Rank? This seriously pained me as I couldn’t come up with a good rationalization for it.

Once I attended a party. As I recall there was a kind of lame comedy routine that involved the late Amanda Ambrose, who I had known from CCLA. I think there was music and there may even have been drinks for some of the execs. Hubbard came in and sat down at table with some of his servants and execs. I recall that he seemed extremely jovial, smiling and laughing. All attention, including mine went onto him. To me he seemed awesome and vastly powerful. In a booming voice he made a few comments about the sound system. He even named some of the system’s components in a conversation with someone in the audience. Soon he got up to leave, but as he was leaving he looked directly at me. His eyes seemed especially deep, like deep pools and I was awed. Then he rushed away with his entourage. I now wonder if the ‘deep pool’ effect was due to his pupils being dilated and whether his sudden departure was to prevent people from noticing this giveaway. Who knows? It was long ago.

Anyway, I was about to graduate the course and what had I learned? More importantly what would I say? I couldn’t say, ‘Well, I guess I still think Hubbard is awesome, despite the thing with the little girls, and I liked the food and it was fun being on the ship while it was underway. Otherwise, there were too many assholes with rank, too much yelling, the course was boring and mundane almost beyond endurance, and I don’t see how I’m supposed to fix the problems I’m supposed to fix when I get home.’

I think I went into a sort of emergency trance in which I summoned the necessary total certainty, confidence and gratitude for Hubbard’s generosity in sharing his breakthroughs with me. I became an actor assuming a role and then pretending I had not done so. I said something like, ‘I have real certainty now that I can go back to my org and using what I’ve learned here, raise production to a whole new level. (Most people add in a few personal anecdotes about overcoming limiting ‘wog’ ideas and about how incredible and helpful the staff at Flag have been. But I could not manage it.) I just cut it short with, 'Thanks to the incredible staff at Flag and especially to Ron for the truly amazing third dynamic wisdom I received on the course.’

Then I flew home, happy to leave one of the last places on earth I would ever want to be at.

john
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Lovin' it Johnd. Thank you!:)

Love your writing! Nice! You take me there - ya actually stirred things up a little as I got the sense of the crserm setting again. Yikes! I had to look away and shake my head...you describe it so well.

"Pink-haired guru with the little girls..." Surrealism?

Thanks again Johnd. :)
 

Johnd

Patron with Honors
Lovin' it Johnd. Thank you!:)

Love your writing! Nice! You take me there - ya actually stirred things up a little as I got the sense of the crserm setting again. Yikes! I had to look away and shake my head...you describe it so well.

"Pink-haired guru with the little girls..." Surrealism?

Thanks again Johnd. :)

Hi Sallydannce, and thanks.

The 'pink-haired' hubbard was how my memory served it up to me. Maybe it was light reddish? Seemed pink to me, but then I may have been in a surreal state, wondering what any of it had to do with super technology.

He definitely did have two young girls with him and one was actually holding his ashtray.

Sorry if I reminded you too much of cult 'courserooms.' I was sort of trying to purge it all from myself. Spent a lot of time under 'supervision.' No offense meant to former scn supervisors of course. Most of the ones I knew were nice, well meaning people in a crazy system.

john
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Great job, again, John! You are an excellent story teller. Truly
it feels like you're right there. Great job! Also, I loved this:


Next day I route onto the TEO course. As I recall, the course room was in an area near the bow of the ship. At times when the ship was underway in big seas, the course room would pitch up and down. Looking back on it, this was really the most enjoyable part of the TEO course—a ride with crashing sound effects.

It IS funny when one looks back on cult days and what
stuck as enjoyable. I remember s/t similar only on the Freewinds Asbestos ship of Hell. :omg:

Thanks for telling your story! :rose:

Tory/Magoo
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi wants,

Yikes! So Hubbard was doing sweat experimentation on humans even earlier than '77? There does seem to be an inordinate amount of memory loss among former long term scientologists and I don't pretend to understand it fully.

John

google "heat stress proteins" - it is my understanding that the purpose of a fever is to cause microbes to release heat stress proteins which are identified by the immune system and then antibodies are crafted to deal with the invader... HOWEVER, if you heat a human body too high for too long your own cells will begin to release heat stress proteins and that may potentiate auto immune disorders - your body begins attacking itself
 

Johnd

Patron with Honors
google "heat stress proteins" - it is my understanding that the purpose of a fever is to cause microbes to release heat stress proteins which are identified by the immune system and then antibodies are crafted to deal with the invader... HOWEVER, if you heat a human body too high for too long your own cells will begin to release heat stress proteins and that may potentiate auto immune disorders - your body begins attacking itself

Hi Arnie.

I googled that and it's fascinating though I wasn't able to get into great depth due to my lack of biology background. But the heat stress proteins are implicated in autoimmune problems and chronic heat shock appears to weaken the immune response to both bacterial and viral infection.

In common sense terms, heating people up for hours every day to outlandish levels is a reckless thing to do. Doing so without extensive consultation with medical experts would be negligence--there is clearly too much chance of harm from heat stroke, immune problems, etc. And we're not even mentioning vitamin overdose.

I and other staff were the animals in the animal testing of the original rubber suit 'sweat program.' This was actually abandoned by hubbard due to who knows what.


john
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Hi John,

I knew a few people on the early experiments who said they ran in rubber suits.
I didn't think to ask then but have often wondered if they ran in the rubber suits that used to be called diving dry suits or did they use the neoprene wet suits or something else ?

Just curious.

Never heard why the original program was scrapped...probably a whim.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Hi John,

I knew a few people on the early experiments who said they ran in rubber suits.
I didn't think to ask then but have often wondered if they ran in the rubber suits that used to be called diving dry suits or did they use the neoprene wet suits or something else ?

Just curious.

Never heard why the original program was scrapped...probably a whim.

A WDC mission came to the Toronto org in 1980. I was the Flag Rep, taken off my post, and put on as the IC of the "Sweat Out Program pilot". It was also being run in some other orgs too (though I didn't know which ones).

The "rubber suits" were not diving suits, but really thin cheap "vinyl" - thin plastic sort of thingies. I had to line up various YMCAs, fitness centers and even saunas in hotels to manage to get ALL the staff onto the program. The staff were the guinea pigs! :ohmy:

THAT was Hubbard's "research" . . . . . :whistling:

I remember being at one location, and 7 or 8 of us were running on stationary running machines with the suits on. Then we would take off the suits and head into the saunas. I think the suits were taken out of the program after about 2 weeks.

Back then we did it for about 2 MONTHS, 5 hours every day! I think I attested after 67 days. :duh: :biggrin:

I would almost PUKE when I would have to gulp down an entire FULL CUP of OIL! :puke2:

But we had so much fun, playing monopoly in the sauna, playing cards, telling old drug stories, etc. :happydance:

And Armelle Pearse (ED Toronto Day) was something else in that cute little bikini! :thumbsup:

For what it is worth I saw two different women "turn on" the exact OLD residual outlines from bathing suits they had worn when having gotten horribly sun-burned (many years earlier)! The niacin? Mind over matter because they believed it was supposed to happen? Either way, the physical (body) WAS afffected by the mind (or by the niacin), because during to program I saw these previous sunburns "turn on and off". So did many others. :confused2:
 

Gib

Crusader
A WDC mission came to the Toronto org in 1980. I was the Flag Rep, taken off my post, and put on as the IC of the "Sweat Out Program pilot". It was also being run in some other orgs too (though I didn't know which ones).

The "rubber suits" were not diving suits, but really thin cheap "vinyl" - thin plastic sort of thingies. I had to line up various YMCAs, fitness centers and even saunas in hotels to manage to get ALL the staff onto the program. The staff were the guinea pigs! :ohmy:

THAT was Hubbard's "research" . . . . . :whistling:


I remember being at one location, and 7 or 8 of us were running on stationary running machines with the suits on. Then we would take off the suits and head into the saunas. I think the suits were taken out of the program after about 2 weeks.

Back then we did it for about 2 MONTHS, 5 hours every day! I think I attested after 67 days. :duh: :biggrin:

I would almost PUKE when I would have to gulp down an entire FULL CUP of OIL! :puke2:

But we had so much fun, playing monopoly in the sauna, playing cards, telling old drug stories, etc. :happydance:

And Armelle Pearse (ED Toronto Day) was something else in that cute little bikini! :thumbsup:

For what it is worth I saw two different women "turn on" the exact OLD residual outlines from bathing suits they had worn when having gotten horribly sun-burned (many years earlier)! The niacin? Mind over matter because they believed it was supposed to happen? Either way, the physical (body) WAS afffected by the mind (or by the niacin), because during to program I saw these previous sunburns "turn on and off". So did many others. :confused2:

Per first bold above, don't you think the same is true for the release of DMSMH in 1950 and then scientology? Staff and public became the "research" data to be complied into HCOB's and HCO Pl's, and lectures and books. Thus the work was free.

Per the second bold, that was true for me as well. I had sunburn's turn on in the outline of a bathing suit as well as a t-shirt were my arms, neck, face turned red, but my mid torso did not.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Hi John:

Lakey here. Just to let the board know, John and I were on staff together at CCLA in the early 70's.

I just started reading your thread and read about the sweat out program. I wasn't even aware that there was such a thing before the "Purif" came out.

I am going to read all the posts here and then write some more meaty comments to you in a day or two. I hope you are covering or will cover some of the early CC stuff from 1970 to the end of 1973. It would be great to read things from your perspective in the Qual Division as to what was going on!
Lakey
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
In spite of being in pursuit of the eidetic memory promised by clear it seems most of us have faulty memory, period.

My ( highly unscientific ) theory is our brain in like a bucket that once it gets full of water. You can put more in but something is going to spill out.

Sooner or later your bucket get full ! :coolwink:

My experience with memory seems to be different than that of most of the other posters here. Now that I'm in my 70's, I am noticing that short term memory and long term memory seem to be almost completely separate functions.

This is puzzling when you think about it because all the memories start out short term when they first happen. It seems that as time passes, the short term memories eventually get refiled into a different sector of the mind.

The short term memory has to do with where one left his keys, his sunglasses, various important papers, etc. This function goes down hill with age in many people so it must be body related, having to do with blood flow, oxygen getting to the brain and things like that.

Long term memory, recalling things that happened in one's childhood, etc. doesn't seem to be completely dependent on the health of one's body. Those who always had good recall of past events somehow are able to preserve this ability but those who did not ever have good recall of past events lose some of what little they had.

One thing I've noticed with people in their 60's and 70's is they get tongue tied searching for a word word or name "right on the tip of their tongues". Typically someone is trying to remember who starred in a certain movie and can visualize what the actor looks like but the name just escapes him or her. That type of memory reduction seems to be connected to aging. Ir happens to me a lot and I've found that if you stop trying to remember it and go on with your business it will usually pop into your mind by itself, usually within 10 or 15 minutes but sometimes it will be the next day.

For me, none of these areas of memory were effected for better or for worse by the auditing I received, it all has to do with aging.
Lakey
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
I posted what Short Term Memory ( STM ) really is over on the Apollo '73 thread for those interested.

Didn't want to kludge up John's fine thread with more long winded kludge.
 
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