Laffy's cult doesn't have a monopoly on fraud.
- Thread starter Rmack
- Start date
Lurker5
Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes
Same here - Ayn Rand (lol) saved me from decades in scn - as did a tangle with evil in a human that almost killed me. My instincts came ALIVE from that experience - and though I do not have your talents, or your wife's Rmack, I pay attention, like SweetnessandLight.
Mine 'bends' though - and that is hard to explain.
Once I took a weekend course from a magician. He showed us tricks, but also mind stuff that perhaps are not tricks. Our homework the the first night was to find the penny he had hidden in the room when we were not persent. We were to focus on dreaming about it. I did all the stuff he said (astral projection type exercises, breathing, blah blah, etc), and I had a dream. I saw that freaking penny. I knew exactly where it was.
The next day we are in the room and I am searching the sill above the window where the chair was, where I had dreamed it, and to my great disappointment it was not there. No one found the penny. He went to go get it - it was on the window sill above the matching couch - 90 degrees from the chair/window sill that I was searching on. The picture of the chair/ window and the couch/window were the same, but bent - skewed - and not in proportion (couch vs chair length). Ooooh.
This clued me into something about the way I 'see'. It is a bit bent - lol. This has helped me in real waking life - a lot - because - really - it IS all connected. Because of that experience, I am aware of how I skew things, look at them askance rather than head on - and a bit blown out of proportion -in real life as well as in dreams. Hmmmm. Great for dream interpretation too -LOL.
I still 'see' that way. But I cannot quite trust it - I know what I see, but I wonder how I have skewed it. LOL. This is true in real life as well as in intuition/instinct - AND - surprise surprise - emotion (yep, all connected).
It keeps me on my toes. My intuition and instincts have sharpened quite a bit, just by my paying attention. When things get confirmed by expereince, that strengthens my intuition and instincts. I find more turst - but I don't think I can change who I am, or HOW I see (a bit bent/blown out). I can only come to know HOW I see . . . and go from there.
From what I 'see', I look 90 degrees left and right, use peripheral sight, up/down - over/under, inside/outside, around/over - and so. I have a rule - do not solidify self into ONE choice/way/position. Ever. Stay open.
Hard to explain - sort of like - absorb it - let it be - be watchful. FEEL it.
That is how is is for me. Not as talented as you, but still - something - quite extraordinary. I think we all have it, in varying degress. But one has to find it - to make it come alive. One has to 'give' to it, feed it, so to speak, to keep it alive.
Sigh. Mine have sharpened in a bizarre way. I sense things like impending accidents - and death. Personally - in my little world, not impending plane crashes and stuff. My little world. Death and accidents - not my favorites . . . but I don't shove them away. I don't turn away.
I often know ahead of time, that a death is coming, and to whom. This has taught me a lot about love - and never leaving without those I love knowing how much I love them. And the accident thing - well it makes me very careful. Those don't always happen, and I think it is because I was so extra careful because I sensed something pending out there.
That is a Catch 22 on that one - can't verify those after awhile . . . But I certainly can verify the ones I blew off as excessive worry. Not anymore. Now I pay attention to those feelings.
Oh yeah, the magician. After that weekend, a girl in the audience at one of his shows asked me about the class I took with the guy. She wanted to know how to levitate. She thought he was really doing it. He did not show us anything on that - but I knew he wasn't 'really' doing it - though I have heard stories on it being real. Who am I to say (until I experience that - see it with my own eys, test it out)? But I was stunned at her belief in 'magical' thinking. Another poor soul ripe for the picking by some kind of evil entity or being.
(snips)
I think this kind of experience is very common in our world. Good to educate ourselves and others about the pitfalls of joining a group too completely, so that you lose yourself, your self-determinism, your capacity for critical thought and judgement. In other words, how not to become overly dependant on others, when we are all inter-related, and inter-dependant, and that's a good and healthy thing (think community of individuals).
So glad, RMack, that you are close to your brother again. That's cause for rejoicing.
I have lots of reality on the gifts or skills that you and your wife experience, and totally believe you and accept your reality as legitimate. I suspect that many here can relate, as well.
Have also had the experience of "reading", or recognizing a killer, as you did.
My instincts have literally saved me more than once. I am VERY grateful for them! The only time I ever get into trouble in life is when I let my intellect override them.
Let us know more about how your family is doing, as you can.
Same here - Ayn Rand (lol) saved me from decades in scn - as did a tangle with evil in a human that almost killed me. My instincts came ALIVE from that experience - and though I do not have your talents, or your wife's Rmack, I pay attention, like SweetnessandLight.
Mine 'bends' though - and that is hard to explain.
Once I took a weekend course from a magician. He showed us tricks, but also mind stuff that perhaps are not tricks. Our homework the the first night was to find the penny he had hidden in the room when we were not persent. We were to focus on dreaming about it. I did all the stuff he said (astral projection type exercises, breathing, blah blah, etc), and I had a dream. I saw that freaking penny. I knew exactly where it was.
The next day we are in the room and I am searching the sill above the window where the chair was, where I had dreamed it, and to my great disappointment it was not there. No one found the penny. He went to go get it - it was on the window sill above the matching couch - 90 degrees from the chair/window sill that I was searching on. The picture of the chair/ window and the couch/window were the same, but bent - skewed - and not in proportion (couch vs chair length). Ooooh.
This clued me into something about the way I 'see'. It is a bit bent - lol. This has helped me in real waking life - a lot - because - really - it IS all connected. Because of that experience, I am aware of how I skew things, look at them askance rather than head on - and a bit blown out of proportion -in real life as well as in dreams. Hmmmm. Great for dream interpretation too -LOL.
I still 'see' that way. But I cannot quite trust it - I know what I see, but I wonder how I have skewed it. LOL. This is true in real life as well as in intuition/instinct - AND - surprise surprise - emotion (yep, all connected).
It keeps me on my toes. My intuition and instincts have sharpened quite a bit, just by my paying attention. When things get confirmed by expereince, that strengthens my intuition and instincts. I find more turst - but I don't think I can change who I am, or HOW I see (a bit bent/blown out). I can only come to know HOW I see . . . and go from there.
From what I 'see', I look 90 degrees left and right, use peripheral sight, up/down - over/under, inside/outside, around/over - and so. I have a rule - do not solidify self into ONE choice/way/position. Ever. Stay open.
Hard to explain - sort of like - absorb it - let it be - be watchful. FEEL it.
That is how is is for me. Not as talented as you, but still - something - quite extraordinary. I think we all have it, in varying degress. But one has to find it - to make it come alive. One has to 'give' to it, feed it, so to speak, to keep it alive.
Sigh. Mine have sharpened in a bizarre way. I sense things like impending accidents - and death. Personally - in my little world, not impending plane crashes and stuff. My little world. Death and accidents - not my favorites . . . but I don't shove them away. I don't turn away.
I often know ahead of time, that a death is coming, and to whom. This has taught me a lot about love - and never leaving without those I love knowing how much I love them. And the accident thing - well it makes me very careful. Those don't always happen, and I think it is because I was so extra careful because I sensed something pending out there.
That is a Catch 22 on that one - can't verify those after awhile . . . But I certainly can verify the ones I blew off as excessive worry. Not anymore. Now I pay attention to those feelings.
Oh yeah, the magician. After that weekend, a girl in the audience at one of his shows asked me about the class I took with the guy. She wanted to know how to levitate. She thought he was really doing it. He did not show us anything on that - but I knew he wasn't 'really' doing it - though I have heard stories on it being real. Who am I to say (until I experience that - see it with my own eys, test it out)? But I was stunned at her belief in 'magical' thinking. Another poor soul ripe for the picking by some kind of evil entity or being.
Rmack
Van Allen Belt Sunbather
Same here - Ayn Rand (lol) saved me from decades in scn - as did a tangle with evil in a human that almost killed me. My instincts came ALIVE from that experience - and though I do not have your talents, or your wife's Rmack, I pay attention, like SweetnessandLight.
Mine 'bends' though - and that is hard to explain.
Once I took a weekend course from a magician. He showed us tricks, but also mind stuff that perhaps are not tricks. Our homework the the first night was to find the penny he had hidden in the room when we were not persent. We were to focus on dreaming about it. I did all the stuff he said (astral projection type exercises, breathing, blah blah, etc), and I had a dream. I saw that freaking penny. I knew exactly where it was.
The next day we are in the room and I am searching the sill above the window where the chair was, where I had dreamed it, and to my great disappointment it was not there. No one found the penny. He went to go get it - it was on the window sill above the matching couch - 90 degrees from the chair/window sill that I was searching on. The picture of the chair/ window and the couch/window were the same, but bent - skewed - and not in proportion (couch vs chair length). Ooooh.
This clued me into something about the way I 'see'. It is a bit bent - lol. This has helped me in real waking life - a lot - because - really - it IS all connected. Because of that experience, I am aware of how I skew things, look at them askance rather than head on - and a bit blown out of proportion -in real life as well as in dreams. Hmmmm. Great for dream interpretation too -LOL.
I still 'see' that way. But I cannot quite trust it - I know what I see, but I wonder how I have skewed it. LOL. This is true in real life as well as in intuition/instinct - AND - surprise surprise - emotion (yep, all connected).
It keeps me on my toes. My intuition and instincts have sharpened quite a bit, just by my paying attention. When things get confirmed by expereince, that strengthens my intuition and instincts. I find more turst - but I don't think I can change who I am, or HOW I see (a bit bent/blown out). I can only come to know HOW I see . . . and go from there.
From what I 'see', I look 90 degrees left and right, use peripheral sight, up/down - over/under, inside/outside, around/over - and so. I have a rule - do not solidify self into ONE choice/way/position. Ever. Stay open.
Hard to explain - sort of like - absorb it - let it be - be watchful. FEEL it.
That is how is is for me. Not as talented as you, but still - something - quite extraordinary. I think we all have it, in varying degress. But one has to find it - to make it come alive. One has to 'give' to it, feed it, so to speak, to keep it alive.
Sigh. Mine have sharpened in a bizarre way. I sense things like impending accidents - and death. Personally - in my little world, not impending plane crashes and stuff. My little world. Death and accidents - not my favorites . . . but I don't shove them away. I don't turn away.
I often know ahead of time, that a death is coming, and to whom. This has taught me a lot about love - and never leaving without those I love knowing how much I love them. And the accident thing - well it makes me very careful. Those don't always happen, and I think it is because I was so extra careful because I sensed something pending out there.
That is a Catch 22 on that one - can't verify those after awhile . . . But I certainly can verify the ones I blew off as excessive worry. Not anymore. Now I pay attention to those feelings.
Oh yeah, the magician. After that weekend, a girl in the audience at one of his shows asked me about the class I took with the guy. She wanted to know how to levitate. She thought he was really doing it. He did not show us anything on that - but I knew he wasn't 'really' doing it - though I have heard stories on it being real. Who am I to say (until I experience that - see it with my own eys, test it out)? But I was stunned at her belief in 'magical' thinking. Another poor soul ripe for the picking by some kind of evil entity or being.
My wife is more gifted in this area than me, but I still have occasional experiences.
She had one recently; we had a blackout a few weeks back. It went on for several hours. We were outside talking to neighbors by flashlight, and Carol said she had a 'feeling' that the lights would come on at 10:00 pm. Knowing that when she has these feelings, they almost always come true, I was disappointed when the time came and went, but no power.
As I thought about this, I realized that we were under daylight savings time, which is really a false time, and that it wouldn't really be ten o'clock until the clocks read eleven.
Sure enough, right at eleven (by the altered clocks) the power came back on!
I had a minor one just the other day. I dreamed I woke up and looked at the digital clock by our bed, and it read 9:41 exactly. I woke up after this, but didn't look at the clock, and drifted off again.
When I awoke for good, and got out of bed, I looked at the clock, which is on my wife's side, and not viewable from mine, it read 9:41 exactly! (yes, I'm a night owl) This time my prophetic dream took in to account daylight savings, apparently.
Lurker5
Gold Meritorious Patron
Fascinating
It is fascinating stuff, Rmack. I recognized what you were explaining. That is how it is - comes about for me - too. I had to finish up my comment to go to an appointment, but all during that, I could not stop thinking about what you wrote, my own experienes. LOL. I love these kinds of stories/experiences - as well as dreams. From what you wrote, you seem very intuitive with Tarot too. I'd say you have loads of innate ability.
Great OP/thread/posts 
Thanks.
It is fascinating stuff, Rmack. I recognized what you were explaining. That is how it is - comes about for me - too. I had to finish up my comment to go to an appointment, but all during that, I could not stop thinking about what you wrote, my own experienes. LOL. I love these kinds of stories/experiences - as well as dreams. From what you wrote, you seem very intuitive with Tarot too. I'd say you have loads of innate ability
. Great OP/thread/posts Thanks.I came from other directions; some mystical, some less so, but, one that gave me the kind of 'create your own world' push that Scientology does for others was John Fowles 'The Magus'. After that, I was ready for Hesse's 'Steppenwolf'.
And, since then, I've seldom felt the need to kick down open doors.
Zinj
And, since then, I've seldom felt the need to kick down open doors.
Zinj
Rmack
Van Allen Belt Sunbather
I've read 'em both, Zinj, but get this; These were definitely two of the books that I brought with me in my personal bookcase when I joined the Sea Org and moved to Hollyweird.
When I decided to leave the insanity a year and a half later, I went to get my shelf from S.O. storage, and ALL of the books that I owned had been stolen, including those two, except my few scio books, (the old green back originals) which were all over the place.
The most ethical organization on the planet? Quite the opposite, in fact.
Rmack
Van Allen Belt Sunbather
Lurker5
Gold Meritorious Patron
Consficated?
Maybe your books were consficted? Didn't sec go through everyone's things, and - yes - steal what they wanted, but consficted anything 'contrary' to scn ????
Maybe your books were consficted? Didn't sec go through everyone's things, and - yes - steal what they wanted, but consficted anything 'contrary' to scn ????
Rmack
Van Allen Belt Sunbather
This was right around 1980-81 and they didn't seem to be doing that sort of thing, yet. People read other books all the time.
They also hadn't started some of the more restrictive controls that I've heard about since; no television, no perfume, stuff like that. I had a tv in my room, and my wife loved tea rose perfume. There was no internet yet, and they had the media pretty well under their thumb, so they didn't seem to worry about staff or members finding out anything about the cult that they didn't want them to.
No, I'm pretty sure it was other S.O. members who were looking for something to read besides the mind-numbing outpourings of Laffy, and didn't care that they were stealing my property.
Rmack
Van Allen Belt Sunbather
email to the cult accusers
From the 'views' count, it seems there are a few people who are following this recently resurrected drama, so I thought you might be interested in an email I just sent to the person or persons who attacked me in 'Goodguys' post.
Here is a copy of it;
It's been a few days now since I answered your charges on the ESMB. Why haven't you responded?
I've got news for you;
1Cr 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
1Cr 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Cr 14:27 If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret.
1Cr 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
Do you understand this plainly worded, straightforward doctrine?
Notice it says when 'the whole church be come together into one place' with no mention of before or after the preacher starts to preach (which, btw, they really didn't have back then, the whole clergy/layman, man of the cloth/parishioner distinction is decidedly un-biblical and comes from the blasphemes of the Catholic cult).
But you guys did this anyway. And are still un-apologetic. Do you know what this means?
IT MEANS YOU WERE IN A NON-BIBLICAL CULT, not the 'perfect church' you insanely believe it was.
The fact that you can deny the plain meaning of the scriptures is indicative of the depth of the brain-washing, which is really what the group tongues abomination really accomplished. It's very similar to the thought-stopping techniques that all cults use. Meditation, 'training routines' whatever. It serves to dampen the subconscious resistance to programming. Then they are fed the groups dogmas.
Do you really think that non-believers would make the distinction you use to justify this apostasy, that you didn't do this after the preacher started raving, and therefore wouldn't think you are mad, just like the scriptures say they would? How can anyone be that stupid?
Cult brainwashing is the only explanation.
Like I say in my posts, I cut all contact with Mark, Mary, and anyone associated with them as a lost cause back in around 1990. They were doing just fine (financially, that is) and Mark wasn't any more messed up than most lawyers. A couple years or so ago when I found out from other family members that he had gone round the bend, got disbarred, etc, I was shocked. I had no idea in all those years that he or his family weren't much better off (financially) than me. Mark was very stingy his whole life, and at most only gave me a loan once, expecting to be paid back in full, all the while giving thousands to that holier than thou parasite.
I had no idea that his kids needed any support, or I would have dug deep to do so. I would have put up at least one of them, maybe more. By the time I found out about it, they were grown.
You say Jay has helped many, and is loved by many? So was L. Ron Hubbard. So are all cult leaders WITHOUT EXCEPTION!
It's clear that this guy has benefited financially in a big way from being a cult leader. He has his reward.
I ask you again; What in hell happened that caused Mark to flip out like that? Don't try and blame it on his past; he was fine for decades. Something had to have happened after I broke off contact. I suspect it was something Mary did, but I don't know.
I have a feeling you are just going to scurry away, and not confront any of this, because deep inside you know I'm right about all this.
Come on, cultists, prove me wrong if you're not the cowards I suspect you are.
End of email
So, do you think we'll hear from these people again? I kind of doubt it myself.
From the 'views' count, it seems there are a few people who are following this recently resurrected drama, so I thought you might be interested in an email I just sent to the person or persons who attacked me in 'Goodguys' post.
Here is a copy of it;
It's been a few days now since I answered your charges on the ESMB. Why haven't you responded?
I've got news for you;
1Cr 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
1Cr 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Cr 14:27 If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret.
1Cr 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
Do you understand this plainly worded, straightforward doctrine?
Notice it says when 'the whole church be come together into one place' with no mention of before or after the preacher starts to preach (which, btw, they really didn't have back then, the whole clergy/layman, man of the cloth/parishioner distinction is decidedly un-biblical and comes from the blasphemes of the Catholic cult).
But you guys did this anyway. And are still un-apologetic. Do you know what this means?
IT MEANS YOU WERE IN A NON-BIBLICAL CULT, not the 'perfect church' you insanely believe it was.
The fact that you can deny the plain meaning of the scriptures is indicative of the depth of the brain-washing, which is really what the group tongues abomination really accomplished. It's very similar to the thought-stopping techniques that all cults use. Meditation, 'training routines' whatever. It serves to dampen the subconscious resistance to programming. Then they are fed the groups dogmas.
Do you really think that non-believers would make the distinction you use to justify this apostasy, that you didn't do this after the preacher started raving, and therefore wouldn't think you are mad, just like the scriptures say they would? How can anyone be that stupid?
Cult brainwashing is the only explanation.
Like I say in my posts, I cut all contact with Mark, Mary, and anyone associated with them as a lost cause back in around 1990. They were doing just fine (financially, that is) and Mark wasn't any more messed up than most lawyers. A couple years or so ago when I found out from other family members that he had gone round the bend, got disbarred, etc, I was shocked. I had no idea in all those years that he or his family weren't much better off (financially) than me. Mark was very stingy his whole life, and at most only gave me a loan once, expecting to be paid back in full, all the while giving thousands to that holier than thou parasite.
I had no idea that his kids needed any support, or I would have dug deep to do so. I would have put up at least one of them, maybe more. By the time I found out about it, they were grown.
You say Jay has helped many, and is loved by many? So was L. Ron Hubbard. So are all cult leaders WITHOUT EXCEPTION!
It's clear that this guy has benefited financially in a big way from being a cult leader. He has his reward.
I ask you again; What in hell happened that caused Mark to flip out like that? Don't try and blame it on his past; he was fine for decades. Something had to have happened after I broke off contact. I suspect it was something Mary did, but I don't know.
I have a feeling you are just going to scurry away, and not confront any of this, because deep inside you know I'm right about all this.
Come on, cultists, prove me wrong if you're not the cowards I suspect you are.
End of email
So, do you think we'll hear from these people again? I kind of doubt it myself.
Bethel Tabernacle
Thank you for the post on Bethel Tabernacle. I prayed to receive Christ there on April 2, 1972. I had visited before Pastor Steenis was killed in a plane crash. At his funeral there was a message in tongues with a corresponding interpretation. The interpretation referred to 1 Cor 7:20 "Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called." (KJV) The interpretation went on to say in "Thus saith the Lord" authority that we were to stay committed to Bethel Tabernacle until we were officially sanctioned to leave in the manner of Acts 13:2. I was fully committed to the church until January 1973. During that timeframe my grandmother died and left me a $1500 inheritance as soon as I finished college. I gave the money entirely to the church building project we were involved in while at the original Grant St. location. Meanwhile, I found myself deeply struggling with some of the parallels between the control tactics used by Jehovah's Witnesses and Breck, Jay, and the other elders. We were only to read the King James Version of the Bible, we were to not read any commentaries or other literature about Christianity, we were not to attend any Bible studies and we were to attend all 6 services each week. The only reason we could miss a service was that we were dead or working. If we were sick we needed to come and get healed. If someone else outside the church was sick or having an important family function, we were told to "let the dead bury the dead" (Lk 9:60). I became more and more concerned about whether what I was committing to was a cult and whether I was being a testimony of the change Jesus promises to those who follow Him as Savior and Lord. On the very day that I decided to quit, just one hour before the service that night, I received a call from one of the elders telling me that if I quit, I would lose my salvation and become a reprobate with no chance of forgiveness, even if I pled for God to forgive me. What was really eerie about the whole thing is that I had not even told anyone in the church that I was considering leaving. After leaving, I ran into some other ex members at Calvary Chapel who told me about others who left and had returned to drugs and debauchery because they were doomed to go to hell anyway. In 1974 I moved to Denver to go to "cemetery school" (what Breck called seminaries). I visited once more at Christmas time 1974. Breck had already had a falling out with Sister Steenis, was meeting elsewhere and had changed the name to Faith of Our Fathers. It was clear that the control tactics had heightened considerably and there were already rumors of people being beaten by the elders for threatening to leave the church.
Thank you for the post on Bethel Tabernacle. I prayed to receive Christ there on April 2, 1972. I had visited before Pastor Steenis was killed in a plane crash. At his funeral there was a message in tongues with a corresponding interpretation. The interpretation referred to 1 Cor 7:20 "Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called." (KJV) The interpretation went on to say in "Thus saith the Lord" authority that we were to stay committed to Bethel Tabernacle until we were officially sanctioned to leave in the manner of Acts 13:2. I was fully committed to the church until January 1973. During that timeframe my grandmother died and left me a $1500 inheritance as soon as I finished college. I gave the money entirely to the church building project we were involved in while at the original Grant St. location. Meanwhile, I found myself deeply struggling with some of the parallels between the control tactics used by Jehovah's Witnesses and Breck, Jay, and the other elders. We were only to read the King James Version of the Bible, we were to not read any commentaries or other literature about Christianity, we were not to attend any Bible studies and we were to attend all 6 services each week. The only reason we could miss a service was that we were dead or working. If we were sick we needed to come and get healed. If someone else outside the church was sick or having an important family function, we were told to "let the dead bury the dead" (Lk 9:60). I became more and more concerned about whether what I was committing to was a cult and whether I was being a testimony of the change Jesus promises to those who follow Him as Savior and Lord. On the very day that I decided to quit, just one hour before the service that night, I received a call from one of the elders telling me that if I quit, I would lose my salvation and become a reprobate with no chance of forgiveness, even if I pled for God to forgive me. What was really eerie about the whole thing is that I had not even told anyone in the church that I was considering leaving. After leaving, I ran into some other ex members at Calvary Chapel who told me about others who left and had returned to drugs and debauchery because they were doomed to go to hell anyway. In 1974 I moved to Denver to go to "cemetery school" (what Breck called seminaries). I visited once more at Christmas time 1974. Breck had already had a falling out with Sister Steenis, was meeting elsewhere and had changed the name to Faith of Our Fathers. It was clear that the control tactics had heightened considerably and there were already rumors of people being beaten by the elders for threatening to leave the church.
AnonyMary
Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
It's refereshing to hear from someone with experience as opposed to heresay.
Sounds like it was one of the many christian church cults that exist because they are fed by the ignorance and innocence of it's members. Glad you got out. Are you still a christian? I hope so, inspite of all that happened there.
~Mary
Bethel Tabernacle
Yes, I am still a follower of Jesus Christ. The trials of life will either make us better or bitter. By the grace of God I have become better through the experience. Through the years I have faced various levels of disappointment with various ministries, but none as severe as what I experienced at Bethel Tabernacle.
Yes, I am still a follower of Jesus Christ. The trials of life will either make us better or bitter. By the grace of God I have become better through the experience. Through the years I have faced various levels of disappointment with various ministries, but none as severe as what I experienced at Bethel Tabernacle.
Rmack
Van Allen Belt Sunbather
Thanks for posting.
I had never heard of any kind of physical coercion and find it hard to believe. I think it was all strictly mental coercion that kept people in that cult.
I only had sporadic contact with my brother over the years of his membership in Bethel, and later in F.O.O.F.. Over time the control mechanisms lightened up considerably. I'm not sure when, but sometime before my working for Mark at his law office in 1991-92. (I found out the exact dates from my personal records.) They were getting a kick out of being able to go to movies now, after many years of not being allowed, I guess.
Mark had told me that at one time the policy was not to read any other books but the KJV of the Bible, though there were exceptions for people going to school.
Six services a week? When I had the most contact with them, as I lived with my brother for a few months right next door to the church they were renting for their services, I believe there were 4 mandatory meetings a week. It used to upset me no end when, after arriving at job sites after hours of travel in L.A. traffic jams, he would insist on leaving at about 3 pm after just a few hours putting up siding, so he could be ready for another church service. This lengthened the jobs, resulting in less money, and more travel time in relation to working time.
Yeah, I had Mark telling me they were the only correct church in the world one time. Yeah, sure, the only correct church that has as it's main practice something clearly forbidden by some of the clearest 'how to' doctrine in the Bible; group tongues.
Do the techniques for keeping dupes in sound familiar, ex-scientologists? You are going to hell if you ever leave. Keep them exposed to the cult's teachings with no long cool-off period between brainwashing sessions.
And don't necessarily believe it was the Holy Spirit, or any other spirit for that matter that tipped off this elder who called you. You would be surprised what you give away in body language in a situation like that.
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Rmack
Van Allen Belt Sunbather
Another interesting point about the history of Bethel Tabernacle, and then later Faith of our Fathers;
The 'falling out' that Breck Stevens had with Steenis's widow that qnwa01 mentioned had a dramatic peak. I didn't see it, but I heard about it from others.
From what I gathered, the widow was the legal owner, and it seems she waited until this very expensive facility (gotta be millions in todays market) was completed before putting pressure on Breck and his ex-hippy followers. It had something to do with appearance; she insisted that they not look like bums, at least be clean, maybe wear shoes, along those lines. They had started attracting all the sixties hippies by Steenis telling them that God doesn't care how long their hair is or how they dress, so most of them still looked like counter-culture types from the time.
One day Breck got up and walked out of the place when she was speaking about this at the podium, apparently for the first time, and a large portion of the congregation, almost exclusively the younger ex-hippie types followed him out, leaving the smaller numbers of usually much older people, in both age and years of membership.
Because of Breck's stubborn fanaticism, this magnificent building that they had all contributed very much to funding it's construction went to the small group that had been going to the older, much smaller church. Remember my brother giving his whole taxi driver check when our mom and sis were depending on him?
Interesting timing by the ol' lady, huh? It seems she didn't get to be the head of a church by not knowing anything about politics.
The 'falling out' that Breck Stevens had with Steenis's widow that qnwa01 mentioned had a dramatic peak. I didn't see it, but I heard about it from others.
From what I gathered, the widow was the legal owner, and it seems she waited until this very expensive facility (gotta be millions in todays market) was completed before putting pressure on Breck and his ex-hippy followers. It had something to do with appearance; she insisted that they not look like bums, at least be clean, maybe wear shoes, along those lines. They had started attracting all the sixties hippies by Steenis telling them that God doesn't care how long their hair is or how they dress, so most of them still looked like counter-culture types from the time.
One day Breck got up and walked out of the place when she was speaking about this at the podium, apparently for the first time, and a large portion of the congregation, almost exclusively the younger ex-hippie types followed him out, leaving the smaller numbers of usually much older people, in both age and years of membership.
Because of Breck's stubborn fanaticism, this magnificent building that they had all contributed very much to funding it's construction went to the small group that had been going to the older, much smaller church. Remember my brother giving his whole taxi driver check when our mom and sis were depending on him?
Interesting timing by the ol' lady, huh? It seems she didn't get to be the head of a church by not knowing anything about politics.
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Royal Prince Xenu
Trust the Psi Corps.
I stood in one of these types of events, and noted that the "tongues" commenced at the conclusion of the actual service. My "guide" stood beside me--there was no need to protrate oneself for anal stimulation, and my brain as it is started analysing what he was blathering. There were repeat syllables, but there was also a distinct pattern or structure rather than just jibberish--though hardly enough to truly decipher what he was saying.
I have always been of the point that talking in tongues in of no value if the listerners cannot understand it.
