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Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Clay Pigeon, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Birdie ... I don't like labelling people either but in the case of hubbard I don't see how anyone could deny that he was (at best) a narcissist.

    Below are some of the main things to look for when dealing with a certain kind of person and it could have been written with tubs hubbard in mind.

    lotus and Clay Pigeon like this.
  2. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Tell me about it. EZ Linus' post hits the spot too. I've fallen out with at least two people here on this board, and both of these are directly linked to William Birdwood and his shit-spreading operation. I've tried it before, but from now on I'm just going to ignore the cunt, his latest pathetic grovelling for sympathy makes me sick to my stomach anyway.
    Clay Pigeon likes this.
  3. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    He suffers from center of the universe syndrome and is successful in manipulating some posters in to reinforcing that delusion.
    strativarius likes this.
  4. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    It would take a little bit more than that to manipulate me ... but I think he quite enjoys the ad hom from some people.

    Clay Pigeon likes this.
  5. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    You've only got to look back to the money-making wheeze he was blathering on about a few months ago to know he's a delusional fantasist - not to mention affecting the outcome of ball-games using his super OT powerz. I have zero sympathy for him.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
    Churchill and Little David like this.
  6. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    I think he is but a burnt out old druggie. Like me and some others here.
    Appears mental.:(
  7. No One

    No One a girl is no one

    Wait, so you mean I'm not the center? :giggle:
  8. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus Cleared Tomato

    That's just the thing, it is NOT the fault of a child, nor can a child make "integrity" decisions about what to do with their adult life. I was emancipated at 15 and lived as an adult after leaving home at 14 (right before I turned 15), but that did not mean I was capable of making the correct movements in my life. I had no guidance, except for Scientology and other young adults around me giving their undeveloped brain-advice. The blind leading the blind. I can say that Scientology served a purpose at the time, sure. I needed structure. It gave that to me, but too much, obviously. It was a cult. It was like joining the Army, only, when you join the Army, you know what you're getting into and you're not lied to. I would have been better off joining the Army though.

    But there are reasons you can't join the military until you are at least 18! Children have laws to protect them for a reason--because they are children. There are laws about not having sex with minors--for a reason! Because they're minors! Children. They are not adults in little bodies. Anyone who thinks this is disgusting.

    Now that I'm older looking back, at 15 years old, I had no idea what I was doing, and I was also reacting to various traumas that happened well before I reached my teen years. These sorts of things can't be processed until you are older and you can put it in perspective.

    And then there's that disconnection thing you remind me about. I must have written my family dozens of disconnection letters because I was told they were SPs, the reason I got the flu, lost money, or wasn't moving on the bridge fast enough. I was taught to treat them as the enemy. Not for any other reason but because they weren't pro-Scientology. But I got sick and had life problems just the same, whether they were in my life or not. Explain that one. I was made to feel PTS all the time, and still am considered PTS because I am disabled, and there is nothing I can do about that. I will be a DB forevermore. All people with illness are PTS and seen this way, shunned by everyone they know in their Scientology community, shut out, and treated as a leper.

    Or if you ever had a suicidal thought, or had a session with a psych, took an Ativan, or whatever, you are some kind of illegal piece of shit. All of this because Scientology doesn't work on anyone consistently as advertised, let alone people who are slightly sick. They don't want to be responsible for not being able to fix people's problems, because you can't have real problems to be fixed in order to have "wins" to begin with. They have excuse after excuse about why or how if the tek doesn't work on you, and all of it is YOUR fault. Not Hubbard's. Give me a break. No love, no empathy. No nothing. Your loved ones don't like us, fuck em. Stop talking to them. Make them our enemy. Your enemy. If you are still having issues, look up words. Still having problems? You probably are PTS, or an SP yourself--write up your overts. Somehow YOU did something wrong. If you are a child and you get raped, that's YOUR problem, you were there, you are responsible for your own condition. You want us to feel bad for you, you are running a service facsimile. On and on it goes.

    No, that doesn't traumatize young people at all. Of course not.

    If they get your mind from a young age (in my case, I was 12 or so), and you never have connections to any other adult guidance because they've cut you off from everyone, by the time you're 30, you're completely molded by Hubbard's way of thinking and no outside influence. That's why it's complete mind control. Your communication is controlled, the language, your friends, your thoughts, and you are not allowed to be critical. By the time you get out and unravel this shit, it takes years to become some semblance of a human. You were never open to any other influence of life outside of Hubbard, because that's just simply not tolerated.

    Maybe you left, but you realize it was an "escape" from nothing but a mind jail of endless rules. A kid is supposed to be responsible for falling into this? And/or getting out? How many more stories have to come out about how people have absolutely no one to turn to if they leave, nowhere to go, no money, no way out? That is doubly an escape. They are literally kept captive, and the children are especially! How is it not slavery? Their parents are in the SO. They want to be with their parents (even though they never get to see them). They have some chance of being with them at least once in a while if they join the SO. What kid would not sign a contract? And what 15 years old wouldn't think they were doing it wholly of their own volition? At 15, I thought I knew everything. Didn't you? I think, until you're free, you're still 15 of mind. I think, because of all of the above, one gets stunted and frozen in time; growing and learning real things are ciphered off.

    What do you think? Sorry this was so long.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
  9. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    What do I think? Your post reminds me why I hang around here doing my bit to warn people what a crock of shit scientology really is and why I get so pissed off with people who are here trying to tell us how wonderful L Ron Hubbard is.
    Me and My Self likes this.
  10. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    :winner: Awesome post, EZ. You hit the nail on the head. My story has many parallels to yours and you brought tears to my eyes. I wish when you were 12 or so, I was your big sister and could have looked out for you and given you hugs, direction and support when you most needed it. Hell, if I had a little sister (like you), I would never have taken the risk of Scn, never even left home. How different both our lives would have been.

    You are a terrific writer, btw. I’m buying your book and reading it cover to cover!! :biglove:

    You are a sister to me. Kindred spirit. :bighug:

    You can really write though! :wow: You’re REALLY good!!

    I’ll pm you tomorrow. Worked long and hard today and I’m exhausted.. Thank you for your awesome post, for sharing, for caring and for the truth. I feel understood and much better.
  11. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron



    I certainly am here to learn and have learned much. I am certainly NOT going to learn the materialist, behaviorist, atheist ways of psychiatry having been personally brutalized by them twice and seeing them shorten my fathers life with two episodes of ECT and for he most if the "headshrinkers" want to find omeone who fits the jacket of sociopath they can find one in any mirror.

    And you appear to be utterly oblivious to my statement that CoS abuses resulted in THE WRONGFUL DEATH OF MY FIRSTBORN SON so there are damn few members of this board who have any more solid foundation for criticism of CoS and several of LRH's policies.

    If you are so heartless, gutless and BIGOTED(!) you are unable to respect and communicate with a person who studied auditing and has been able to apply it t significantly improve the well being of friends and acquaintances you are not compelled to do so but to refuse to do so is be subjected to the charge you are so weak in holding to your own beliefs you quail in the presence of honest poster who not only reads your writing with respect for it and it's author and as well envelopes you in Christian agape


    If you are discomfitted being present n the "Love" thread, go in peace and may the light and love of our Lord travl with you
  12. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    "...guessing and accusing, taking ever shot in the dark he can..."?!?

    Puh-leez! I cited your statement you were a runaway teenager and held it was implicit there was family dissonance in the statement. I also, in the words of the Bard of Avon said "M'Lady doth protest to much."

    "CP is just trying to hurt me because he can't handle the ugly truth about Scientology and Hubbard. He's hitting me with everything he thinks can be a button or a trigger..."


    "M'Lady doth protest too much"

    It is never my intention to hit buttons or triggers but it does appear I did, wot?

    Probably not. Your anger is probably mere mock-up to frame m as someone I am not and inspire faux sympathy fanned into righteous indignation in a Greek Chorus those volunteer for such:overreact:

    [word i choose not to use but cannot replace deleted]

    This is the "LOVE"!!! thread.

    Is there something about love you do not fully understand?

    Apparently so if you can't handle the idea a person of good will can use auditor training to benefit his fellows

    luv ya...

    if ye gonna split leave anointed with same gooey slurpy blessing greasing EZL's path...
  13. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hubbard was a genius and certainly rather venal

    Every time I get accused of telling people "how wonderful he was" I plead not guilty

    I am not one of his sycophants.

    Come on Stratsie, if you want to launch an assault on The Commander's citadel surely you can do better than that...
  14. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Like people who write for hours late at night supposedly from US public libraries during the summer when library hours are shorter and kids are out of school using library Internet and there is a one hour time limit per person and kids in line?

    Like people who insist for years that whatever terrible things happened to others they always experienced 10x worse personally and feel a need to diminish the impact of others’ personal stories and suck up compassion away from victims and to themselves with incredible stories of their own?

    And then add more insult to injury by carrying on about how wonderful Scientology is on the same forum dedicated to those hurt by it?

    Yeh, they piss me off, too. Thank goodness for people like EZ. :bighug:
  15. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    You would be considerably less pissed off if you didn't actively wish to be pissed off and would not twist me words around

    This library has a two hour limit


    would you really begrudge a 69 year old veteran who sleeps on sidewalks the use of a library computer?

    Unruffle the components of your indian bonnet JS

    This board is open to ex-scientologists of all stripe, though most who had any good experiences (which is mos of us) have been driven off quickly
  16. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron


    I think you're right that this board is a more hostile environment than it used to be for people who have had good experiences of Scn., but maybe there's some justification for that?

    Since "Going Clear" came out in 2015, this board's visitor traffic has increased and it's my impression that a lot more people have visited this board since that point who have no prior exposure to or involvement with Scn. I very much don't want them to get the impression that it's worth their while getting involved with the CofS, and I worry that if I post any more stories about the good things I believe I got out of my time there and in the FZ (and there were some), someone somewhere will think it's worth their while going down to their local org and getting involved with the Scn "matrix."

    Sure, we here can make the distinction between the CofS and the FZ, but I'm not sure that someone exposed to the subject for the first time could.
  17. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    The nature of the venue makes it possible to enjoy it ITYIWT. It isn't a thing I need or seek but the intensity of the dialogue makes it virtually inevitable.

    I would like to remind everyone to be as aware not only of the presence of lurkers many of whom may be very intelligent and honest and this board is presumed to have long term importance as an archive and ad hom is a piss poor way to support a polemic. It is a weak and losing tactic to hurl ad hom at a person who gives heartfelt expression of personal belief supported by honest account of firsthand experience and has and displays great affection and respect for those of different opinion particularly those harmed by jackanapes in orgs exploiting cheap labor and misapplying both tech and policy especially certain questionable policies, acting in violation of the creed of the church and the true spirit and ideals of the work...
  19. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes, there is justification for it...

    That don't make it right.


    Though I am LOATHE to direct others into CoS I would not block their path and ...



    I do maintain that there is profound benefit to be gained from the proper study and practice of auditing when done by men and women of good will who respect human rights particularly those delineated in the first ten amendments to our Constitution and the ideals of our Judeochristian scripture

    I ain't backing off


    I again remind you, playful banter works in your favor, virulent ad hom weakens your argument.
  20. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Damn good shot ITYIWT.

    There is anecdotal material from eyewitnesses of L Ron Hubbard's personal conduct to support each and every line of the description of a "narcissistic personality"

    And a profound body of work to make the charge laughable psychobabble.

    I judge not by the dirt on the hands but by what those hands have produced.