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Making sense of the madness you have escaped from!

Discussion in 'Life After Scientology' started by Alan, Jan 13, 2007.

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  1. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    One of the hardest things to do for an ex-scientologist of for that matter anyone who has escaped any cult, is to arrive and stay in present-time.

    It took me 17 years to arrive stably in PT.

    I am still undoing the subtle enslavements.

    In many ways I was lucky as I came into Scio in an era that questioned everything.

    I also compartment my thinking into three basic areas.

    1. What could be proven as a fact.

    Good indicators.

    Life going easier.

    Increased life skills.


    More abilities.


    2. What was just speculation or could not be proven as a fact.

    Past lives.

    Xenu. OT III incident.


    Trains on Venus.


    3. What was unknown or there was a pretty good chance "I didn't know -I did not know!"

    In many ways these are the areas that make you co-dependent on Scio.

    Just before leaving Scio.....I made lists connected to each area.

    The most powerful list was: What skills and abilities did I have.

    Other lists I made:

    What could I do well?

    (Nothing was too small to put on this list: i.e. I could tie my shoelaces, I could cook an egg, I could communicate, I could get dressed, I could shave, I could read, write, do maths, etc.) Strange how rehabilatative it was to acknowledge all of these mundane abilities.

    What actual criminal acts had I committed?

    (This undid so many wrong items and false overts.)

    What did I love to do?

    What were my most valuable abilities or skills.

    Where could I use or market them.

    What products could I produce?

    What assets did I have?

    What abilities was I withholding?

    What successful actions had I done?

    Another question I ran:

    If I became, rich, successful, well known and happy what was I afraid might happen?

    The hardest areas to untangle from Scio is that LRH borrowed from so many other subjects. Subjects that you don't know exist.

    So it seems Scio contains all the knowledge......far from it.

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2012
  2. Rawl

    Rawl Patron

    Was it really madness? Is Cult the only label to be applied to the group? Is the "Scientology experience" always negative?

    Take an idealistic group with some powerful, practical ideas, the possibility (often the actuality) of betterment of self and others, but in that interaction of peoples and beliefs, you'll also find the possibility of abuse and exploitation exists; It's a human experience. Many groups seek to influence your behaviour and actions, to the exclusion of other activities.

    Leaving Scientology is pretty much like leaving any intense relationship. How you deal with that is up to you. Make a choice. That doesn't mean I'm not sympathetic to people feeling lost or troubled on exit, or needing support, or that your self-empowerment list is nothing short of a great idea, but, make a choice and live through it.

    I'm not a current Scientologist. To some degree, I'm not even a Scientologist at all because I don't audit, but I am still enamoured by the philosophy and its teachings. It's a powerful framework, maybe it is all only eclectic, "borrowed" technologies, it's still a powerful framework in which to live a meaningful life. It gave me Orientation as a Being.
    Orientation as a Being, yeah, that's my success story right there. :)
  3. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    The madness is in each of us. :)

    Is the "Scientology experience" always negative?

    That is the problem, no it is not......far from it; there are millions of positives.....its just they collide with the millions of negatives!

    For most when they leave a group or team they lose a lot of friends, lots of point "B's". Their space and time tends to collapse. By finding and validating the positives you get back a great deal of space and time.

    Spacation = Beingness.

    Time = Havingness.

    Kinda important stuff in the Games of life.

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2012
  4. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    Without using any "tech" at all, how does one go about recovering from Scientology?

    Take me for example. I have no freezone or independant field. I won't do Avatar, Landmark or any other cultic Scn derivation. I can't find a psych who has any clue about leaving a cult. I don't have a lot of money.

    Does life just gradually win over? Does time really heal? Is talking it about it in this type of environment enough?

    Do you read? Find a hobby? Go back to school? Get a new religion? Concentrate on your career?

    How do you fill the void?

    Some might say "what void?" But there is a void. A deep one.

    10 years ago I thought I had all the answers. I had "the tech" to handle anything. I had the answers to life itself. I was training to be an auditor. I was in the most ethical group on the planet. I had found kindred spirits. I was shouldering the responsibility of the planet. I was a "big being". I could do the impossible.

    How does one get over that loss?
  5. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well for a start stop lying, making less and making nothing of yourself!

    You have a lot of Tech.

    You have a comm cycle.......worth a fortune if used properly.

    You can produce a product....evidence; this message board.......again worth another fortune if marketed properly.

    You wrote: 10 years ago I thought I had all the answers. I had "the tech" to handle anything. I had the answers to life itself. I was training to be an auditor. I was in the most ethical group on the planet. I had found kindred spirits. I was shouldering the responsibility of the planet. I was a "big being". I could do the impossible.

    What was the dream or goal you had behind this?

    How can you achieve that dream or goal without selling your soul?

    Do you like teaching people?

    Are you a good coach?

    What do you love to do?

    Do the above lists :)

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2012
  6. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    ?If you cannot holographically define it, you cannot have it.? ACW

    Definitions of: WEALTH and RICH

    There are two words that few have a full definition of ? those words are WEALTH and RICH.

    Both words mean; the ability to have an infinity or abundance of spiritual, mental, physical and environmental someone?s or something?s. They can be people, places, subjects or things.

    Spiritual wealth and riches are:

    An infinity or abundance of Presence, Life Force Particles, Space, Time, Energy, Power, Intelligence, Thoughts, Creativity, Dreams, Intentions, Optimum Visions, Optimum Games, Love, Truth, Harmony, Friendliness, Knowledge, Responsibility, Control, Appreciation, Values, Honor, Compassion, Integrity and Happiness.

    You are aligned and co-creating with friendly others who have the willingness, cleverness, skills, abilities, know-how and intelligence to help you achieve and maintain your greatness - as you are willing to help others reach and maintain their greatness.

    Mental wealth and riches are:

    An infinity or abundance of optimal recorded Cleverness?s, Know-How?s, Workable Information, Successful Ideas and Effective Workable Actions, Effective and Efficient Utilization of Space, Time, Energy and Things, Constantly Upgrading and Keeping Identities, Actions and Things in their Correct Optimum Orders of Importance.

    You are aligned with, and can contribute to and help like minded friends.

    Physical wealth and riches are:

    An infinity or abundance of optimized healthy body, fitness, large possessions of space, time, energy, money, gold, silver, pearls, jewels, land, things and objects; that abundance of worldly estate which exceeds the estate of the greater part of the community; affluence; opulence.

    You are aligned with, and can contribute to and help like physically minded friends.

    Environmental wealth and riches are:

    An infinity or abundance of optimized safe spaces, safe countries to live in - safe, friendly places to visit, - wealthy, rich, friendly, powerful, knowledgeable friends and teammates, - multiple objects (ranches, homes, cars, boats, planes, tools, etc.)

    You are aligned with, and can contribute to and help these types of friendly safe environments.

    The following definitions are taken from the Webster's 1828 Dictionary:

    WEALTH, n.

    1. Prosperity; external happiness.

    2. Riches; large possessions of money, goods or land; that abundance of worldly estate which exceeds the estate of the greater part of the community; affluence; opulence.

    RICH, a. [L. rego, regnum, Eng. reach, region, from extending.]
    1. Wealthy; opulent; possessing a large portion of land, goods or money, or a larger portion than is common to other men or to men of like rank.

    A farmer may be rich with property which would not make a nobleman rich. An annual income of 500 sterling pounds would make a rich vicar, but not a rich bishop. Men more willingly acknowledge others to be richer, than to be wiser than themselves.

    Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver and in gold. Genesis 13.

    2. Splendid; costly; valuable; precious; sumptuous; as a rich dress; a rich border; a rich silk; rich furniture; a rich present.

    3. Abundant in materials; yielding great quantities of any thing valuable; as a rich mine; rich ore.

    4. Abounding in valuable ingredients or qualities.
    So we say, a rich description; a discourse rich in ideas.

    5. Full of valuable achievements or works.
    Each minute shall be rich in some great action.

    6. Fertile; fruitful; capable of producing large crops or quantities; as a rich soil; rich land; rich mold.

    7. Abundant; large; as a rich crop.

    8. Abundant; affording abundance; plentiful.
    The gorgeous East with richest hand pours on her sons barbaric pearl and gold.

    9. Full of beautiful scenery; as a rich landscape; a rich prospect.

    10. Abounding with elegant colors; as a rich picture.

    11. Plentifully stocked; as pastures rich in flocks.

    12. Strong; vivid; perfect; as a rich color.

    13. Having something precious; as a grove of rich trees.

    14. Abounding with nutritious qualities; as a rich diet.

    15. Highly seasoned; as rich paste; a rich dish of food.

    16. Abounding with a variety of delicious food; as a rich table or entertainment.

    17. Containing abundance beyond wants; as a rich treasury.

    18. In music, full of sweet or harmonious sounds.

    19. In Scripture, abounding; highly endowed with spiritual gifts; as rich in faith. James 2.

    20. Placing confidence in outward prosperity. Matt. 19.

    21. Self-righteous; abounding, in one's own opinion, with spiritual graces. Rev. 3.
    Rich in mercy, spoken of God, full of mercy, and ready to bestow good things on sinful men. Eph 2. Rom. 10.

    The rich, used as a noun, denotes a rich man or person, or more frequently in the plural, rich men or persons.

    The rich hath many friends. Prov. 14.

    RICH, v.t. To enrich. [Not used. See Enrich.]

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2012
  7. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron


    The source points of getting rich are:

    You being FULLY PRESENT with the ability to REACH without
    any restraint or reservation, knowing and being responsible for the
    full effects of the consequences of your intentions, visions, emotions
    and actions.

    The root word, presence, emotions and actions of getting RICH stem from the ability to REACH.

    From creating a full holographic conceptual understanding of REACH you will have the basic formula for the attainment of RICHES.

    The root word, lack of presence, the negative emotions and the lack of actions of POVERTY all stem from the action of WITHDRAWAL.

    The lack of presence, the negative emotions and the lack of actions of stemming from an area of FEAR are the source points that cause one to go into WITHDRAWAL.

    The presence, emotions and actions of BRAVERY are the source points that empower one with the ability to REACH.

    If you truly desire to be RICH it is vital that you get a full holographic concept of the word and subject of REACH.

    Then set about restoring your abilities to REACH and enhance your BRAVERY.

    To enhance your BRAVERY many deep-seated FEARS will need to be removed.


    • noun: the act of physically reaching or thrusting out

    • noun: the limits within which something can be effective (Example: "He was beyond the reach of their fire")

    • noun: an area in which something acts or operates or has power or control (Example: "Outside the reach of the law")

    • noun: the limit of capability

    • verb: to extend as far as (Example: "The sunlight reached the wall")

    • verb: be in or establish communication with (Example: "Our advertisements reach millions")

    • verb: move forward or upward in order to touch; also in a metaphorical sense (Example: "Government reaches out to the people")

    • verb: reach a point in time, or a certain state or level (Example: "This car can reach a speed of 140 miles per hour")

    • verb: reach a destination, either real or abstract (Example: "The water reached the doorstep")

    • verb: reach a goal, e.g., "make the first team"

    • verb: to exert much effort or energy

    • verb: place into the hands or custody of

    • verb: to gain with effort

    Webster’s 1828 Dictionary definition of:

    REACH, v.t. Raught, the ancient preterit, is obsolete. The verb is now regular; pp. reached. L. rego, to rule or govern, to make right or straight, that is, to strain or stretch, the radical sense.

    The English sense of reach appears in L. porrigo and porricio. Greek, to reach, to stretch, the radical sense of desiring. L. fragro. But the primary sense is the same, to reach, to extend, to shoot forth, to urge.]

    1. To extend; to stretch; in a general sense; sometimes followed by out and forth; as, to reach out the arm. Hence,

    2. To extend to; to touch by extending either the arm alone, or with an instrument in the hand; as, to reach a book on the shelf; I cannot reach the object with my cane; the seaman reaches the bottom of the river with a pole or a line.

    3. To strike from a distance. (O patron power, thy present aid afford, that I may reach the beast.)

    4. To deliver with the hand by extending the arm; to hand. (He reached [to] me an orange. He reached me a full cup.)

    5. To extend or stretch from a distance. (Reach hither thy finger - reach hither thy hand. John 20.)

    6. To arrive at; to come to. (The ship reached her port in safety. We reached New York on Thursday. The letter reached me at seven o'clock.)

    7. To attain to or arrive at, by effort, labor or study; hence, to gain or obtain. (Every artist should attempt to reach the point of excellence.)

    The best accounts of the appearances of nature which human penetration can reach, come short of its reality.

    8. To penetrate to. (Whatever alterations are made in the body, if they reach not the mind, there is no perception.)

    9. To extend to so as to include or comprehend in fact or principle. (The law reached the intention of the promoters, and this act fixed the natural price of money.)

    10. To extend to. (Thy desire leads to no excess that reaches blame.)

    11. To extend; to spread abroad. (Trees reach'd too far their pampered boughs.)

    12. To take with the hand.

    13. To overreach; to deceive.

    REACH, v.i.

    1. To be extended. (The new world reaches quite across the torrid zone.)
    (And behold, a ladder set on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven. Gen. 28.)

    2. To penetrate. (Ye have slain them in a rage that reacheth to heaven. 2Chron. 28.) (To reach after, to make efforts to attain to or obtain.)(He would be in a posture of mind, reaching after a positive idea of infinity.)

    REACH, n.

    1. In a general sense, extension; a stretching; extent.

    2. The power of extending to, or of taking by the hand, or by any instrument managed by the hand. The book is not within my reach. The bottom of the sea is not within the reach of a line or cable.

    3. Power of attainment or management, or the limit of power, physical or moral. (He used all the means within his reach. The causes of phenomena are often beyond the reach of human intellect.) (Be sure yourself and your own reach to know.)

    4. Effort of the mind in contrivance or research; contrivance; scheme.

    5. A fetch; an artifice to obtain an advantage. (The duke of Parma had particular reaches and ends of his own underhand, to cross the design.)

    6. Tendency to distant consequences. (Strain not my speech to grosser issues, nor to larger reach than to suspicion.)

    7. Extent.

    8. Among seamen, the distance between two points on the banks of a river, in which the current flows in a straight course.

  8. pollypurebred

    pollypurebred New Member

    starting over

    Funny, I knew I could start anew when I answered my own question.

    Why? Why Scientology? Why me???? Why betrayal and lies from the world's most honest people?????

    Because I was a fool.

    The answer was so simple.... uninspected data .....

    I was a fool before Scientology and during Scientology....I wanted someone else to be responsible.....simply impossible....

    Yes, there is some good in Scientology, and some good people are there...
    but they do not have a monopoly on truth and knowledge.

    Humility is a hard lesson to learn, but once I owned up to that truth, I realized I could just about do anything I wanted to do....

    I laughed for 3 days.....I was so happy and so free. I smile just thinking about it.....I have found true peace and happiness it is there....everyone's journey is a little different, but it is possible.
  9. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Your message comes across beautifully! :) :) :) :)
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2011
  10. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    The lesson was humility.

  11. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    It looks like you have a good start here Em, with ESMB and all. It's an inkling of the community we never had before, really. All that is missing is the dailt activity of application. But really, if you are Clear, solo can be done. There is a plethora of able terminals to help you along....
  12. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Emma, I think you're almost 'over it'. You're asking the right questions and *recognize* that something is missing.

    That's very rare for escapees.
    I know I've quoted it before, but, I'll do so again now, because I think it's relevant.

    Once (or many times) William Burroughs was asked 'Why did you become an addict'?

    Bill's answer was 'Because I had nothing better to do.

    And, that's the solution to cults. Most or at least many Scientologisits join because they want to 'save the world'. Nice idea, but, who would want a Scientologist to 'save' the world? Most people who would even want to be 'saved' at all would rather be saved by deepach or Oprah. And, 'saving the world' is *inherently* a war against the world as it is, and there is no room for people who don't *want* their world 'saved'.

    Quite sanely. Nobody but a trained Scientologist thinks that Scientology even *should* save the world, and, most of them now know how objectionable that 'salvation' would be.

    How do you 'get out'? You don't try to find the 'earliest similar' or get to 'basic basic', but, instead, you fill you life with *other* things. Join a bowling league; become a volunteer for a church you *don't* believe in. Take up painting or photography or web design. Find something that *interests* you to the point where your Scientology experience is not even 40% of your life. It takes a while, but, not *that* long

  13. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Well, if a person wanted to, there's processes they can do on themselves in Self Analysis and some heavier duty ones in Handbook for Preclears. Paul's robot auditor is one you can use at home.

    I do recommend, too, (though not simultaneously) books on yoga and Buddhism.

    I read one recently that even had some exercises a person could do- I mean meditational. They were a bit like TRs, even.

    I may be biased, I have my own take on things, but I really think a person could do a helluva lot worse than Hinduism, Yoga, or Buddhism.
  14. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    If you are following "Standard Tech", yes.

    If not, you can solo when you can solo, and the "Clear" pre-requisite is an arbitrary. The Pilot's Self-Clearing Manual, for instance.

  15. Little Bear Victor

    Little Bear Victor Silver Meritorious Patron

    Emma, my inexpert answers to your questions follow:
    I'd say without "Tech" branded as Scientology and labeled as "workable" by LRH. First of all, so much of Scientology tech is borrowed from other places, you have no need to discard a piece of workable technology just because you have come to learn it as "Scientology," any more than a need stop communicating because LRH claimed only Scientologists know how to communicate. If it is workable it more than likely originated somewhere else.
    It takes none of that. Although movies are costing more and more these days.
    Yes and no. It does, but not necessarily automatically; the more you concentrate on living the faster it does. Talking about it is what begins the healing, is what I have heard from most of the people that have related to me how they were stuck with it and suffered until they found someone to talk to who had similar experiences. So, this is a good place to do so (and that makes you an angel!:itstrue: ).
    All the above and more. (The religion part is debatable, but I did.)
    By realizing that Scientology never filled the void either, only gave you the false impression that it did, and thus actually created the void that you now imagine you have.
    And hey, many of the answers are even true to a great degree so if you threw the baby out with the bathwater, it might be a good idea to go fish the baby back out of the sewer. What is wrong with the goal of a world without war? (Apart from the likelihood of it taking place anytime soon) What's wrong with a drugfree life? What's wrong with being in good communication with people you love? What's wrong with acknowledging what someone else said (as long as you don't make an obsession out of it that you will hang up the person from there until eternity if you miss one acknowledgement)?
    A friend of mine, another ex-SO looks at it this way: Common sense will get you much further than any Scientology "rules."
    True, most of us have lived that illusion. The "void" is the loss of that illusion. I don't recommend filling it with another illusion. One real, actual thing that helps you or someone else toward the right direction is more valuable than that entire illusion. In or out of Scientology, the moment you actually improve someone's life you are doing something more valuable than feeding the illusion that you are doing something about it.
    Don't let yourself be fooled into thinking you are doing less because you don't see the pure (or unpure) PR statistics of what "your work is doing in the world" at an Int event.
    By realizing what one gained.
    If you can imagine scales with one cup that holds illusion and you put any concrete action you take to improve the world in the other one, I think you will have a good idea where to go and what to do.

  16. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    Wow! Weird that this thread gets a new life months later.

    Thanks everyone for your thoughtful answers to my questions. Not only does it make me feel very grateful that there are people here who care enough to post helpful answers, but I also realised that things do change over time.

    I asked those questions in January. It's now late November. In that time I quit my job, went back to school, met a bunch of awesome people (mainly though here), unloaded a bunch more cult indoc, found out what interests me, formed a vision of how I want my future to be and I'm happily working towards that.

    I think there is some real wisdom in this thread and I thank you all for sharing it.
  17. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    WTG Emma! :happydance: :happydance: :happydance:
  18. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I was going to write my thoughts and then read what LBV wrote...and he said it all and way better than I could! :clap: :clap:
  19. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    Alan: Very, very good lists and questions you've got, there:) Thank you for sharing with us, I'm going to write those down and answer them, myself, too.

    You know: One of the concepts that still sticks with me and some days rears its ugly head in my thoughts:

    Believing SO strongly and fighting SO hard and for SO long to get to OT and believing it's promises of power, true immortality, free from implants, evil and otherwise,etc.etc..
    And once I got there, not worrying about where to go when I die (Just knew NOT to go to The Light, right?)

    Well NOW: ALL those things being a lie....some days that fact HURTS, BAD! You know? I mean: NOW WHAT?

    Is it now (and always was) OK to go to 'The Light' now?
    (What if LRH was right, but he's not, right?)

    I guess Christians go through this, in their thing too: 'Will I indeed go to Hell if I don't accept Jesus Christ, etc,etc? What if the Bible's right, etc?

    And now what: It's just each lifetime lived in a new unit of time..(not that that's a bad thing)...yet I was always under the belief that if you are at least Clear and especially OT, then you would no longer have The Amnesia, etc..

    So, here we are......

    Wisened One
  20. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Hi WO. Many years ago when I found myself no longer with all those stated aims of the Bridge available to me, I went through that rough time. It was hard to come to terms with losing the group most of all. Here you stand alone before the big questions! Just you.

    And that really is the answer too. We are all individuals, and in my opinion and experience, we all face different and unique challenges. The first step is becoming aware of them, what is most important and relevant for you, and then working to find information and support on that subject.

    I won't go into the answers I found, you can PM if you want, but suffice to say that I was interested in the natural cycles of life and also personal power and esteem - and somehow I found I was being contacted by women suffering different kinds of abuse! The first time I got an email telling me that my words helped save a life, it made me feel both shocked and enormously humbled. (I guess being in a cult gives a perspective on abuse.) And I realised that the communication and care with and about another over a period of time gave me more personal wins than I ever had in my 30 years in Scientology.

    As Little Bear Victor says "One real, actual thing that helps you or someone else toward the right direction is more valuable than that entire illusion."

    There is a great deal of information on the net. It takes sifting through, and following your instincts about which subject to find out more about, and it is worth it. There are many books to read with wonderful philosphies that make beautiful sense. And usually both delightfully simple and free. Remember a lot of Scientology came from other sources, and those sources are still there. :happydance: