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Marty Rathbun "framed for murder of brother"

Discussion in 'MartyWorld' started by rhansrider, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. SheWhoWatches

    SheWhoWatches Patron

    Thank you, I didn't get what Nancy was saying either & her apology read like the Martybots in his blog.
  2. Pooks


    I don't think AnonKat's post was a distraction. I think Zinj deserved to be called out for his view on thinking that somehow Marty and DM are in cahoots.

    That makes zero sense. There's just no way possible. It's complete tinfoil in my opinion.

    DM and Marty would never dream up this kind of shit storm to happen. This is a real war between these two maniacal numbnuts. They are of course both loving it, there's no doubt about that. Scios are into these kind of games.

    DM wants to keep the cult and Marty wants to be the big thetan behind the coup. It's as simple as that. At least that's how I see it after being one of the numbnuts for 27 years.
  3. SomeGuy

    SomeGuy Patron Meritorious

    I have an obvious question for all the Martyites and conversely CoS cult followers.

    Seeing as marty is a big OT and a powerful thetan and seeing how DM has 1000s of powerful thetans on his side....

    Why don't they postulate each other out of existence?

    Always wondered about people selling others on the concept of being all powerful not being all powerful. Would seem rather obvious to any outsider that there is something wrong with this picture regardless of marty being a murderer or not.
  4. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    In the Mafia, in order to become a "made man", you must first perform a contract killing, generally needing to be witnessed by other made men. The purpose of this requirement is to ensure that you are not an infiltrator, and to ensure that you cannot safely inform upon others without risking your own crimes being exposed.

    When Int Management was first unveiled, a big deal was made about them all being "squeaky clean". Considering the habitual lying from Scn, and their Mafia-style operating basis, could it be that the truth is closer to Mafia-style than we are comfortable thinking about?
  5. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Well, you're certainly welcome to your opinion, and, you're in good company, since that's the majority opinion. In fact, with some judicious editing of colorful adjectives, it's the opinion being sold by both the 'Church' *and* Marty/Mike.

    But, what exactly do you see happening that's evidence of either 'side' really trying to 'hurt' the other?

    Another element of commonality they share is actual actions taken to *minimize* damage to the 'Church'.

  6. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    SP Times stories, Nightline, Today Tonight... Those WERE damaging to scn/dm. And I believe all the PI nonsense is probably true based on the videos I've seen. But yes the murder allegations: take it with a grain of salt until there is some proof.
  7. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    None of those were *originated* by Marty or Mike; each had a very limited scope that fits well within the limits acceptable to Marty/Mike. And, you forgot Anderson Cooper :)

    Still; what *harm* did they cause to DM/Scientology? Bad PR? Had Marty and Mike *not* participated would that PR have been as bad? Worse?

    What 'harm' has the PI activity caused Marty/Mike? Do they seem 'harmed'? If anything it's been *useful* to them. As to the most recent Elliot Abelson/PI claims; we have Marty's word that it even happened or that he actually sent a letter to Abelson. But, even if true; what harm did it cause? Supposedly Abelson directs a PI to contact the Garden Grove police about a 29-year-old murder and, sans evidence, imply that Marty Rathbun is at least involved. And, the police detective who interviews Marty *tells* him who made the accusation? Very odd police procedure. Especially when the accusation involves a PI. I have never heard of cops revealing the client of a PI out of court testimony.

    But, what harm did it cause?

  8. rhill

    rhill Patron with Honors

    Regarding allegations of assaults by David Miscavige, the cat was out of the bag before June 2009:

    Jeff Hawkins, Marc Headley, Larry Brennan. As early as 2005 IIRC, Chuck Beatty brought up these allegations by former members, which were still anonymous back then. They was very courageous in going on the record with this in 2008. I was impressed. This goes back to even 1987, with Don Larson on BBC Panorama.

    I think everything is possible at this point. I just can't tell. Sometimes I think this is tinfoilery, sometimes I go "hmm." But if I was the cunning leader of a notoriously cunning cult, I would probably conclude that cunningly shuddering people into silence is not working so well overall in this new era, and that maybe I would consider a cunning strategy to mitigate opposition, instead of cunning strategy to shudder opposition into silence.

    Time will tell, but so far, no matter how I look into all this, I can't tell, but what I can tell is that I am just unable to rule out mitigation with the information publicly available (an outsider like me doesn't have any privileged information and not member of any secret movement -- hopefully I will be excused for that.)
  9. rhill

    rhill Patron with Honors

    Bad PR? It's not exactly good publicity for the Church of Scientology, and we know how PR is important in Scientology.
  10. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    In fact I do not think Zinj believes it himself and he is folding Tinfoilheads for others to put on being sort of a Big Thetan himself around here having created himself a niche as a though critic of sorts.

    Tinfoil by proxy
  11. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well when you consider scn is a scam which relies heavily on convincing it's members that certain things are true and then you have former high ranking officials come out that dispel the myths causing new people to stay away and scios to leave then that IS damage because it means less income. And I know this based on personal experience not just because I read about it. Also one of the primary myths of scn is that it's perfect. Just the fact that people would come out at all and say these things will cause concern itself to some scios.

    Of course they supposedly have huge reserves but all that has been hearsay as well. I think they probably do but have seen no proof.

    Do I think dm is harming M&M? Not at all. But all the PI nonsense does show how looney scn is and does back up many of the claims people have made. But it is limited damage as most people don't give a rats ass about scn and so don't look it up on the internet. And people are highly likely to cherry pick information to support the opinion they already have. Just like you're doing, just like I'm doing and everybody else.

    But doubts are like straws on the camel's back. We can debate until were all blue in the face how many people M&M have "gotten out". I have no idea other than reading a few people's accounts of being affected by the SP Times stories. But for people who are starting to get fed up and are starting to have some forbidden thoughts, M&M could definitely add a couple more straws. And once again I'm speaking from actual experience. I had doubts for a while but agreed to give scn the benefit of that doubt until they pissed me off bad enough to try the forbidden fruit - the internet.

    In the end though I think they are only harming themselves as the more they open their mouths the more they show how troubled they really are.
  12. NeverMe

    NeverMe Patron

    Don't know if any of you have visited the freedom magazine web site lately but they've posted some really low down dirty stuff about Marty. Of course, he isn't the only on being attacked but the stuff about him is pretty bad. Intimate details about his immediate family. Attacking the man is one thing but to attack his family in order to hurt him is a whole nuther thing. It's all really sad, to be honest. Marty has hurt a lot of people in the name of scientology in the past but I don't think his family should be dragged into the middle of it. Low down and sneaky.... and shameful.

    It would be perfect if a link could be posted to the freedom magazine web site and to the religious freedom web site where it would be brought to the attention of everyone in the whole world. No one would be left with any doubt about what scientology is all about! . Everyone would have the opportunity to read the hate they've posted there. Really, they've expressed it all there.

    I just noticed that if you do a search on google for marty rathbun, the first thing you see listed is a "sponsored link" in a little gray box sending you to the freedom mag web site/marty rathbun articles.

    My question for a scientologist:
    So what happened to the Creed of scientology ??????

    And we of the Church believe that the laws of God forbid Man

    To destroy his own kind.

    To destroy the sanity of another.

    To destroy or enslave another’s soul.

    To destroy or reduce the survival of one’s companions or one’s group.

  13. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    I'm sorry, but, I pretty much assume Marty writes his *own* Freedom Magazine stories and attacking family is just a continuation of what he's done for others for decades.

    But, to go by his metaphor, he doesn't care. After all, he's disconnected from *his* pimp. Nothing to worry about. RTC is Dead.

  14. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Firstly, the "Creed" was and is PR; it's not policy of any kind (not even PR display "policy" such as the faux "Reform Code of 1968"), and appeared along with Hubbard's applying what he called the "religion angle" and starting a "Church."

    Secondly, "raw meat" (novice) Scientologists quickly learn that the "Creed" does not apply to "SPs" or to "Anti-Scientologists" - who have "no rights of any kind."

    I never met anyone in Scientology who took the "Creed" seriously. It was PR fluff used to impress the "Wogs" and give Scientology standing as a 'Church'.
  15. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I take it seriously. By definition a Creed is senior to policy.

    But what hasn't been fucked over!
  16. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

  17. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    What did he say? I don't want to listen to this video again. My guess is that - at least when this video was made - he was still naive enough (and naive in Norway is ultra naive) to see that the "Creed' was for display purposes only - part of the wrapping on the Scientology package.

    I'd be surprised if he's still that naive - It takes a case of serious gooberism to persist (after exposure to so much information) in believing that the "Creed" was a serious and sincere statement, with no "fine print" that changed it meaning and, effectively, made it meaningless.

    Geir is not a goober - I hope he's not, anyway.
  18. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    As usual your understanding of Scientology is ass backwards.

    Remember this exchange? Did you learn anything from it?
  19. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Or, maybe not. Acceptable Truth is the core principle of Scientology. And nothing is more AT

  20. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    I think Zinj was pointing out that the Cofs was going to get the bad PR no matter what - the news conferences had ALREADY been planned before Marty joined in.

    Sure the CofS loves good Pr and hates bad PR but that doesn't mean that bad PR does real damage to them. What does real damage is legal. And there - the two M's have a lot of data that, at least up until now, they do not seemt o have shared with the authorities.

    I am not sure that I buy into the whole "they are working in cahoots" theory, but I think they may as well be because both of them are seeking to preserve scientology with themselves in charge of it and both of them are seeking to deny they did anything wrong.