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memory Loss and the OT

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Mimsey Borogrove, Nov 12, 2013.

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  1. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Imagine my surprise when I get an email from a client - How is X going? Did you take care of it? and I was now past the point in the project where it was easy to do. Completed work would have to be redone. At my cost unless I could dream up some way to make it go right.

    At one point in my life, while on 7 it seemed to me I had stopped creating a time track. I thought it had to do with being clear. Or perhaps the BT responsible for remembering stuff blew. (that's a joke BTW - though the memory loss is not) * see edit below * I did think it was related to the stress of being on OT7. But now, not having that stress, I don't remember stuff any better.

    This morning, I was thinking about 3 things I had to do, writing this was one, I remember the second. The third..... it be gone. I have left a pan on the stove after serving what I cooked for my wife and me. Luckily the pan wasn't destroyed. The flame was low. I have a call with a client - I say yes I'll do Y in a few moments and hang up the phone and days later: Oh Shit!

    Hubbard famously said - there are only two crimes in the universe: preventing one from having freedom to leave the game, and the other.. um. I knew it what I was in the shower - denying a person his memory (or something like that.) It is interesting to me that Scienology practices those things on its members. By seeking to alter its history, and white wash away its crimes, and its lies, it is preventing memory from occurring. I don't need to discuss being unable to leave the game - it is everywhere you look in Scientology.

    This brings me to my question: do you, fellow PC or OT, feel this memory loss was accelerated or restrained by your progress up the bridge? Or has your memory improved? Does remembering false track affect your ability to recall the real?

    And another question - is the short term memory loss I am complaining of proof that scientology doesn't work? After all (and this is the scary part) if the thetan is doing the recalling, and he has an infinite time track at his beck and call, why can't he recall stuff when his body gets older? Is it, memory loss, a brain function or is the thetan some how deficient???? Is he "being" a body and as the synapses degrade, he also mocks up less ability in agreement with the body he is being? In all the stories of exteriorization, I don't recall anybody saying they remembered it all.

    Paul's LBL stuff says the opposite. How one recalls all of his life, his past lives when unencumbered by a body in that enchanted land, and looks over his achievements. I wonder what the truth is?


    * memory loss may have something to do with solo nots- I recall, when I complained to my FSM Wendy Ettricks about memory loss on 7, her comment was - it gets worse. Has anybody else on 7 experienced that?
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013
  2. WildKat

    WildKat Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'll take a stab at this: You're over 50 right? Bodies wear out, brains wear out, memory disintegrates. "OT-ness" will not save anybody from this process.

    I watched the aging process in two relatives, both OT VIII. I saw them over the span of 25 years, riding high while in their 40's/50's, disintegrating as they neared 70. It was the same aging process EVERYONE goes through, but it was WORSE for them, because they THOUGHT they were above it all. They were OT's.

    It was sad, watching the disillusionment kick in, and not being able to admit it.
  3. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    I'm 66. It's dismaying. Sobering. Frightening. Mimsey
  4. Vittorio

    Vittorio Patron Meritorious

    I once read a post on here about an ex in an old people's home with what seemed like dementia. That was hard for me to comprehend, thinking about my "wins" with Dianetics. Can't imagine what such individuals go through. How many people here feel that they have experienced PTSD due to Scientology? Can you imagine what 40-50yrs of stress can do to an already ageing organ?
  5. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Gold Meritorious Patron

    I turn 63 in a few days, which is WHY I take some neurological suppliments, including something called "PREVAGEN".

    Anyone seriously interested to preserving your memory, contact me after you've been on prevagen for a few weeks for my protocol.

    arnie lerma
  6. Vittorio

    Vittorio Patron Meritorious

    Mimsey, it sounds really frightening. Especially things like leaving the cooker on. This can be quite dangerous. Have you consulted a doctor about this? There might be an explanation for this. Memory loss also happens to people under 50. I've had it and this summer I travelled by bus to another city and got off it and then realised I'd left my coat, wallet, phone, EVERYTHING on it and I was stuck in a strange rural town. It was terrifying, but more so because it wasn't the first time. Try consulting your doctor and maybe some memory aids/routines could be devised to help you? Best of luck!
  7. WildKat

    WildKat Gold Meritorious Patron

    PTSD is common, especially in the wake-up process, when you step out of the trap. I suffered it.

    Depending how long you were in, you stand to lose family, friends, maybe a job and even a place to live. It is unbelievably overwhelming. That's why those suckers who are still in are staying in. They know the leaving process would be too horrible, and many don't survive it. But as the facade crumbles, that process is getting easier.
  8. Dean Blair

    Dean Blair Silver Meritorious Patron

    Hubbard proclaimed that the brain was simply a shock absorption mechanism and had nothing to do with the mind. Scientists who have actually studied the subject and performed many scientific tests disagree with Hubbard. It has been my experience that as people age, they experience senior moments. Some people retain more of their memory functions than others. It can be a very slight memory loss, a medium loss of memory, or it can be very sever such as Alzheimer's Disease and Dementia.

    As you have some concern about this I would suggest that you see a doctor and have them run some tests to determine if there is something that should be done about it. A Neurologist is a specialist in the field of Neurology and would be able to help you in some way. OTs and Scientologists don't understand mental phenomenon even though they say they do. Go see the doctor.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013

    IMMORTAL Patron Meritorious


    I've experienced similar memory loss and situations such as leaving the flame on the stove or even the water running from the faucet. This started maybe 8-9 years ago while I was still on VII. I thought it was because of my auditing, you know auditing away my memories or something like that. Or becoming freer of significances in some way. I had it all answered to myself to be a positive thing because I was on VII.

    Since being off VII and now out, memory loss and forgetfulness have continued to progress and get worse. Of course by now I'm 8-9 years older, too. I think it has more to do with aging than with the auditing. I am about your age. I hesitate to give auditing credit for either damaging my memory or improving things in my life.

    I also did experience PTSD after I "left" Scientology but didn't realize it until someone pointed out that was what was probably going on with me. I'd never experienced anything like it in my life but when I researched it, I agreed with the assessment. I try not to "think" too hard about it all. My main goal is to recover and build my health back up and get my finances in better condition. Things are going along well on these fronts. I also understand from a little research that there are memory exercises one can do to help with this problem. If I could only remember to do them! Ha. Just kidding.

    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013
  10. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Paul's LBL stuff differentiates between (1) the part of one's soul essence on leave from the Spirit World and temporarily inhabiting a body here on Earth, and (2) the one-life one-body-based mentality that disintegrates at body death. Each influences the other throughout life, however, so apportioning causation as to who exactly has forgotten where the car keys are is not always easy to do. :)

  11. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    What have you experienced while using this stuff Arnie? Mimsey
  12. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Gold Meritorious Patron

    My descriptions of what I noted are colored by the rest of the stuff I take for memory, which
    I am not willing to discuss unless a person demonstrates they are serious about this, that's why I suggested that anyone interested in discussing it start taking PREVAGEN and THEN I'd be glad to discuss more options with them for preserving memory.

    I've been taking stuff for 25 years, when i first forgot the tea kettle was on the stove,
    and did much much more while under the stress of litigation with $cientology.
    I do know it helped my mood to no longer seem to have one's past gradually disappear.
    This has also helped me in the alt.scientology.war

    And unlike $cientology, I found that it was worth every penny.

    A good source is

    Arnie Lerma
  13. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

  14. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Gold Meritorious Patron

  15. CO2

    CO2 Patron Meritorious

    this is a copy and paste of an e mail I sent to a neighbor, who has been diagnosed with early stages Alzheimers.

    I read this article a little bit ago. It's too late to walk next door, and share with you, but it is never too late for e mail.

    A fellow, who I know, shared this on a public forum: (I boldened the relevant line):

    My cousin, Elise, is featured in this video. She lost four miscarriages to Lyme, and has it herself, as does at least one of her children that did survive.

    Lyme Disease is a tick-borne pathogen that infects huge numbers of people in the USA, primarily in the NorthEast, and whose symptoms mirror Alzheimer's Disease and other neurological disorders (Parkinsons, etc.)

    It is important to me for many reasons, as my cousin is a dear woman, but also: my father was a medical doctor, who had his practice destroyed by the insurance establishment in combination with the government agencies they are comorbid with. So I have a very anti-establishment perspective, because people I am related to have been persecuted and had their lives destroyed because of the machine that is pilloried in this film. Please watch.


    as to my history, I'm not a big believer in orthodoxy. I had chronic fatigue syndrome about twenty years ago. I couldn't stay awake more than four hours a day.

    my best friend, a competitive bicycle racer and black belt in karate, turned me on to "Fit for Life" by Harvey and Marilyn Diamond. Within a few weeks, of doing that diet, I was at near normal energy levels.

    Let's just say, I believe in alternatives to doctors.

    If you watch the movie (above), and you have even a grain of interest in a non medical solution, I may have a variety of non invasive, non dangerous methods. Even if none of them work, not a single one will hurt you in either the short term or the long.

  16. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    WildKat, true that!

    I believe Hubbard suffered from the same in his later years. Face and Cowboy have posted plenty of anecdotes that point in that direction. Plus Sarge in the two books.

    I don't attribute any solo auditing to my mild and slow memory loss or occasional inattentiveness. Pretty common amongst all my friends over 50.

    I stay very active outdoors daily and have many demanding hobbies. Seems to help quite a bit.

    I recently met someone who was 97 years old. Had little memory loss, very sharp conversationally, great wit, could recount many stories from her life with detail. Very encouraging that not everyone "loses it" as they get older.

    WildKat is right. Not complicated.

    A bit disheartening though when you look back at the dreams you had when first stepping onto the bridge.

    C'est la vie.

  17. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster


    Why don't you see your doctor?

    Before going, keep a journal for a while ... maybe for a few weeks. Experience and write down enough so that your doctor has some specifics evaluate. S/he may think you need to see a specialist who can make an accurate diagnosis.

    I'm guessing what you're worried about is whether this is "normal" forgetfulness -- and believe me, forgetfulness IS normal in people who are stressed and in people who grow older -- or if it's something more serious, like dementia of various kinds, including Alzheimer's.

    There are some treatments these days for people who have memory problems -- both new "habits of daily living," drugs and other things.

    You don't have to do any of them. BUT ... if it is dementia, the earlier you tackle the situation, the better you'll be for longer than you'd be if you ignored it completely.

    I'm glad you mentioned this here.

    BTW, I have grown more forgetful myself since age 65 (I'm almost 68 now). Hubby is 75, and he says his is worse than mine (I don't think it is). And as far as I know, neither of us has dementia or Alzheimer's.

    But if I were really, really worried I would talk to my primary care physician.

    (nudge, nudge)

    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013
  18. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    Re: Nootropics/Smart Drugs

    I am doing now. Some of the results have been immediate and quite astounding. One thing that I noticed is that I lost my confidence that when adding figures in my head, especially when I had to carry the 10, that it would be accurate. That went away when taking nootropics and other supplements so that I can quickly add in my head an know that it's right. If I noticed that, there have got to be other things I am not noticing.
  19. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

  20. Deeana

    Deeana Patron with Honors

    I am in my late 60's. I have a mother alive in her 90's who suffers from dementia. I have a medical background, have diligently studied the various dementias and their symptoms.

    First, please do NOT begin any kind of a supplement regimen without FIRST seeing your doctor. For the best care with this, see a gerentological neurologist. In larger cities, a University based hospital will have a department that deals with this. If you live in a smaller town, you may have to travel to a larger city for an evaluation.

    They start by evaluating you for your subjective symptoms, then administer several standardized objective tests in order to establish a "base line". These tests involve answering questions, a bit of math computation, a bit of drawing.

    Some people were once blessed with a fantastic memory, others not so much. I do think it is the folks who always had a great memory who miss it the most.

    There are medications, such as Aricept and some others, that can and do improve memory function. If and when the time comes I will take them. And I will display a bias I have by saying here that I would rather take a medication manufactured by a reputable pharmaceutical producer, under FDA guidelines, than any type of supplement or vitamin that is not so manufactured. (I won't even get started here on supplements manufactured in China.)

    IMO the biochemistry of the brain is not something to self medicate.

    Back to dementia. There are actually a number of types of dementia. Alzheimers just happens to be the most well known. Second to Alzheimers is "Lewy Body Dementia" which is related to Parkinson's Disease. The Lewy Bodies, named for a physician, are a type of (unwanted) protein that builds up in the brain. When located low in the brain they affect the motor portion and cause the shaking, shuffling gait, and many other symptoms of Parkinson's Disease. When the proteins are located in the higher areas of the brain they cause cognitive disorders of various types. Memory problems being only one of them.

    The Lewy Body Dementia is not as progressive as Alzheimers and has been known to respond to medications better than Alzheimers. In some cases it is intermittent, at least in the early stages. So these patients will have "good times" and "bad times". And stress makes it worse.

    Another type of dementia that is fairly common is "vascular dementia", which is caused by a series of mini-strokes. There is still the label "senile dementia". And there are several rare ones, like Huntingdon's Disease.

    Having an accurate diagnosis by a skilled specialist is well worth the time and trouble involved in seeking out care. There are different symptoms and different characteristics to each type. IMO, only neurologists have the intimate knowledge of the various subtle symptoms and the best treatment for each.

    Sadly, my own mother refused to begin medication back 15 or so years ago when her memory problems first began. But she also would never get a hearing aid. It has been a long, down-hill slide for her.

    I think we all owe it to ourselves at this age to do the best we can for ourselves. If your knee hurts, you go to a knee doctor. If your brain hurts, go to a brain doctor!

    Note: You can google "dementia types", "dementia symptoms" and "Lewy Body Dementia" and find lots of good information on all of this.