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Mike Rinder posted something important today

Discussion in 'Leaving Scientology' started by Chris Shelton, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. Chris Shelton

    Chris Shelton Patron with Honors

    Today Mike posted an article on his blog called Scientology and the Aftermath Episode 2, which focuses on him and Christy and their stories with the Church. But what are not covered in the show is Mike's feelings about how he treated others as the head of OSA and as a Scientologist. This is just part of what he wrote:

    Over the last couple of years, I've seen a lot of comments both by ex-SO, ex-Scn and never-ins about Mike and Marty and them taking responsibility for all the horrible things they did from their positions over OSA. I am really glad that Mike has tackled this point directly and I think what he says and how he says it shows that Mike has definitely come a lot farther than Marty or anyone else who has not yet dealt with not only what Scientology did to them, but what they did because of Scientology. I know from personal experience what it takes to get your head into a place where you want to make a public apology like this and it is very indicative that Mike really has come all the way out of the cult mindset. Knowing Mike as I do, I have not really had a lot of question about where he stood on this, but I know others have.

    Curious what others think about this.
  2. skep

    skep Patron with Honors

    I concur, what Mike posted was extremely heartfelt and although Marty has been quiet, I suspect he is reading it all. I (and probably many others) can't help but think that there is a disconnect between the two, although I don't think Marty has turned negative on Mike yet.

    Mike has recovered, Marty hasn't and still, I think, reflects back on the times that he was "the baddest dude in Scientology", and that he probably misses some of the times that when he said jump, the response was, 'how high, sir?'. That perspective certainly has come through since last February, and like many, one has to speculate what was the catalyst for not only the dropped lawsuit, but the vitriolic, albeit sparse, posts Marty has made.

    I wish Mike well on his ongoing journey, and can't help but think that Miscavige must be even more furious with the collaboration with Leah, and the immense impact the series has. However, even though Mike has been a target, more, and more, including yourself, targets keep popping up, and the cumulative impact must be starting to be seen by him.

    I look forward to see the next segment.
  3. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron

    I have much respect and admiration for Mike Rinder, and am a regular reader of his blog which I appreciate immensely.
    I hope that Mike and Gerry Armstrong can find it in their combined hearts, to reach out to one other, if they have not yet done so, and reconcile.
    I feel that Gerry deserves the peace of mind, and sense of closure that this would bring, as does Mike.
  4. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    I am glad he cleared out this specific eabout his regrets (the show only featured his regrets about his children)

    I must admit I got the same exact reaction he mentionned. I wonder how about other people ????

    It was an opportunity for him the make a clear statement about that, how he feeels about his past (top exec OSA) behavior and also it provides sufficient hints about his mindset about $cientology and LRH doctrine!

    Sometimes we are wrong..In the beginning I would have put my money on Marty, not on Mike...But with time..I realized his way has been honest, constant, and he never failed at doing what he is doing. I thank him for letting so many people voicing their story and speak their mind.

    Few days ago I read a post of Mike and the comments section about Lois Resdorf last part. This is a record of a tremendous value and we can celebrate that a few original messengers spoke about how it was (either on the ship or land bases) to be devoted to LRH.

    One thing I observed is now this issue can be addressed freely on Mike's blog.. (the kids used [/U by the ''commodore'' - what they have to speak about it, what it did to them)
    Also, it seems there has been a shift about ''political correctness'' in the indie field about hubbard.
    Some people open up and beginto talk the truth.

    That's all good!
    The indie field has changed..and so many seems to be more free to speak their mind NOW about LRH abusing (enslaved) kids as servants.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
  5. Bost_Bobby

    Bost_Bobby Patron with Honors

    Thanks for the post, Chris. All I know of Mike and Marty is what I have read here or what I have seen on YouTube.

    I can honestly say that when I watched the YouTube series of them talking while fishing I saw in them two very different personalities. Mike seemed very likeable and relaxed whereas Marty seemed hard and tense. Thinking back on those videos now, and I may be wrong here, I felt like Marty was actually saying very little but appeared to be egging Mike on to tell his stories. It just seemed out of balance to me.

    I'm glad Mike is speaking out to those who were negatively affected by him. Maybe more will come out and do the same after they see what he is doing.
  6. arcxcauseblows

    arcxcauseblows Patron Meritorious

    I find it very admirable that he's acknowledging his war crimes lol

    Big sign of growth and has to be a relief to see beyond the strange situation it would be to have been in Osa

    I hope Marty explores this too
  7. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I think what Mike is doing now is brilliant, and that is a great article.

    Tony Ortega gives some more background on Mike and Christie, who are the subject of the next episode of Leah Remini's series.

    Tonight on Leah Remini’s series, two more families get ripped apart and ‘fair gamed’

    These comments hit the nail on the head.
  8. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    Mike Rinder is a Class Act. A man with integrity and grace. I think he represents a Ex Scientologist who is healing from the mind fuck and coming back to being human again! I appreciate that he does not give up, won't take blood money in exchange for silence and is doing very well considering the abuse he endured.
  9. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    Maybe I'm not well informed....and I'm really not looking for answers about this....

    But, IMO, "I'm sorry I hurt people" is a long way from "acknowledging his war crimes...."

    Perhaps....that is why the lol, tagged on the end of that sentence?
  10. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Did you read his post today, and see today's episode? It's more than merely saying I'm sorry.

  11. Martin-O

    Martin-O Patron

    I just posted my very first comment on his blog. Maybe the day has come where he starts to talk about the past:

    Martin Ottmann says December 7, 2016 at 7:05 am

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    Hi Mike,

    I appreciate what you have done in the past few years for educating the general public about Scientology. Needless to say, I read you blog every day. Now that 9 years have passed since you left the organization, would you be willing to tell us more about your time at the helm of the Office of Special Affairs International? You never really explained in detail what was going on at OSA Int while you were the CO. I know that a lot of people would be very thankful if you could fill in blanks on what was going on in different areas of the Scientology world during the 1990s (f. e. Greece, Russia, Germany). A ready-for-use-in-court type declaration/afffidavit about the inner workings of the Office of Special Affairs would also be great.


  12. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Mike has a follow-up article and the comments are worth reading!

  13. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Leah with the able assistance of Mike has put together the most damaging media presentations of the evils of the Co$ ever.
  14. Caroline

    Caroline Patron Meritorious

    Gerry has written and spoken quite a bit about Mike Rinder, because he was Rinder’s biggest fair game target for so long, and he continues to be a key fair game target. Below are links to some of the materials that inform their relationship, and to the small amount of correspondence between them.

    Over all the years Rinder fair gamed Gerry for Scientology, and had been paid by Scientology for that purpose, he wrote and spoke a great deal about Gerry. Almost all of what Rinder has written or said was in secret. Much was black PR. He has never publicly, or to Gerry, disclosed or acknowledged what he did to fair game Gerry or what he has written or said about him.

    Since Rinder in recent years has been portraying himself as Scientology tamer or exposer, the absence of his public statements concerning Gerry is actually a revealing factor in their relationship. Rinder is identified as editor of Rathbun’s 2013 book, and Gerry says it forwards the cult’s black PR on him and his attorney Mike Flynn. Rinder was briefly recorded by the German filmmaker Markus Thoess black PRing Gerry. (Video below) He has taken no action that I am aware of to correct the black PR he promulgated, even to the highest levels of government.

    Rinder and Gerry really have an extraordinary relationship, which is similar to Gerry’s with Mark Rathbun: the long unrepentant victimizer and his common undying victim. Gerry is not seeking a sense of "closure." His requests of Mike Rinder are the same as his requests of Mark Rathbun, which are essentially to tell the truth toward correcting ongoing injustices and black propaganda. It very well may be that "closure" is not obtained, but at least justice would have been sought. Right now, Mike Rinder and Mark Rathbun do not seek justice for their victims and do not support the people who do seek such justice. The "closure" they apparently seek is our acceptance of the decades long injustices and other crimes they perpetrated against their victims. "Public apologies" without real willingness to do what's possible to correct the wrongs reduces the "apologies" to further acts of fair game. "May be tricked, sued, or lied to or destroyed."

    No Truth from Rinder? No reconcilation.

  15. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    Merry Holidays to you and Gerry.
    I think you are terrific.
  16. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Thanks Caroline.

    What do you think about the idea of having a meeting and airing of all these unspoken of events between Jerry and Mike--and having the event HOSTED and FILMED by someone like Mark Bunker?

    It would be a first.

    Just speculating, but I would imagine that Jerry would greatly appreciate and enjoy the chance to such a live/recorded forum. I don't know Mike R., but I can also hope that he too would "bite the bullet" and just get it over with by answering some tough questions and getting it behind him. For Mark Bunker's part, maybe it is one of the missing ingredients and illuminative sparks to help tie together his long-overdue documentary.

    It's never been done before, a fair gamer talks openly to a fair-gamed.

    I know this might be offering unsolicited advice, but it's "humbly tendered as a gift" and all that......on this planet. :)

    ps: So there is no misunderstanding, I view this cathartic kind of meeting as historical. Not to jam up Mike Rinder in any respect. He has been a spectacularly successful demonstration of escaping the inner core of the diabolical cult. He has disavowed it all and done extraordinary things to expose the abuses, even if you/Jerry are unsatisfied with his not yet providing certain specifics that victimized Jerry. That is understandable. But MR has earned some medals on the way out of the COS (Crimewave of Scn) and perhaps there may be even more medals to be pinned on him before it's all over. He's a good man and Jerry's a good man. It sucks that both got caught in the dark gravity of Hubbard's hoax.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  17. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

  18. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I think what Gerry wants, I would too if I were in his shoes, is for Mike and/or Marty to provide some sort of statement or affidavit on how the COS used Fair Game to get his name smeared. Gerry wishes to clear his name legally so that he may travel to the USA or whatever.
  19. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Yes, I agree. In that way, having Mike Rinder and/or Marty Rathbun state things into the public record, there is a far more profound legal resolution possible for Jerry personally.

    It occurs to me that in life and business (and certainly in law, justice & litigation!) there is more than one way to solve problems. Sometimes a protracted legal battle can be resolved by the parties meeting or mediating or otherwise "settling" the matter outside of a trial and court mandated solution.

    Perhaps (I mused) Jerry's strict insistence on a legal instrument (e.g. sworn affidavit, deposition, courtroom testimony, et al) has been stuck for so long because there may be a better way to get the result. This is not a criticism, far from it. I know well that being on the inside of a long legal battle, there are certain "justice factors" that I typically insist on from a party who embezzled or otherwise stole funds. But that is, ultimately, a peripheral issue to the main settlement terms that can make the problem go away.

    Jesus, now I feel like I am further expounding upon already unsolicited advice and should STFU, LOL.
  20. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Has the statute of limitations run out? Even if it has, it is a tremendous legal quagmire to do anything like that. And really, will it accomplish his return to US soil? The Church would deny any accusations of that sort, so it would be all for naught.

    I wish it were otherwise, but I think it's a pipe dream. It's time to move on.