ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



movin on up II

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by mcrathbun, Feb 9, 2009.

View Users: View Users
  1. mcrathbun

    mcrathbun New Member

    Thank you to the welcomers, defenders, critics, and attackers. I apologize for not having read your rules. I still haven't, but I take your word for it that putting my name out there and letting people know they can come to me for help is a violation. You can go ahead and cancel my membership if you want because I admit that was my only intention. I am not into internet chatting and posting. It is not the forum for me to say what I have to say. Context and timing is everything; and this is not it. As far as those who says I hurt them some how, you know how to get hold of me. I made good with a number of people with whom I've met since I left, on a one on one basis. As to demands that I disavow everything about Scientology, it is not going to happen. I'll give you three examples why not. First person I dealt with since leaving the Church never had any contact with Scn, was chronically ill, at least four major episodes per year – for decades. With a little education on the mechanics of suppression (no evaluations of who the SP is, no demands to disconnect) the person has not been ill once in the three years since. Second fellow (also no Scn contact) grew up being subjected to frighteningly inhumane treatment throughout his childhood. Had thirty years of psychotherapy at untold cost – the result was he was fixated on the dark era daily, constantly figuring on how he was inheritly responsible and permanently degraded since. Two months of weekend auditing, and the guy says he has no fixation on the era, has no self-invalidation going on, and we totally handled what thirty years of psychotherapy made worse. Neither of them paid for my services, though exchanged in life how they saw fit. Third person spent literally hundreds of thousands over 10 years in C of S trying to get something straightened out. We were able to sort it out, to much relief and continuing well being of the individual, in less than a week - and she paid me a modest sum on her own origination that was well within her means. Call me what you will, or even try to get in the road of that, it has zero effect on me. I don't care if you are a kid posting with a pseudonym or the chairman of some gigantic corporation, or the head of the FBI for that matter. In that regard, one poster demanded I confess to the FBI. Well, his J.Edgar heroes had me under intense surveillance, ran informants in on me, and tapped my phone over an extended period of time – all while I was in. When I got the two feet of transcripts of my phone calls through FOIA, the agent who ran the operation told me,”we did our best, but you just wouldn't take the bait.” So, a) they are the last people who are entitled to any confession by me, and b) I know for a fact they don't have the balls to ask for one. And that goes to the very top, to the punk (and I use the word advisedly from personal experience) who spent a year travelling around the globe trying to put me behind iron bars. As to variety of sources, I'll give you a couple examples. One, The Shack by Wm Paul Young. It'll give you an idea how a Church can stand one-hundred and eighty degrees diametrically opposed to its own most fundamental tenets - and yet the tenets can still be workable. Two, John Steinbeck, East of Eden, it'll teach anyone the power of unconditional love and forgiveness. Speaking of Steinbeck, here's another valid therapy: he once said that an afternoon of fishing does a person more good than three months of psychotherapy. Here's one that a field auditor from Tampa just sent me (go to YouTube and search “validation” and watch the 16 minute movie by that title, then go sincerely validate somebody and see if you don't feel more cheerful yourself). I'm learning all the time – like BB King said, a day when I don't learn something new is a wasted day. I've seen that a world of good can be done for someone by helping them to differentiate between workable techniques, unworkable techniques, oppressive organizations and suppressive individuals. One of Scn's greatest problems is its instilling of the “us vs. them” attitude in members. Having studied deeply of the causes of its conflicts from the outset I can see how the old man fell into that trap. I am not arguing it was justified or not. Unfortunately, it is largely responsible for the unproductive, divisive and, for some, traumatic current scene in the margins between Scn and former members. From my short encounter on this site, it appears some folks are still dramatizing what they consider is the winning valence. Example given, people instructing me what to say and to whom to say it and when sort of suggests a cyber SP Hall. I don't see eye to eye with Hubbard's view that dialectic materialism is a fallacy. I've witnessed it on the inside and out – the only time anything productive seems to ever gets done is after thesis collides with antithesis resulting in a synthesis. I'm done with being unthinking thesis or antithesis. I am into synthesis. I'm into healing. People who agree know how to contact me. Thanks again for permitting my apparent misuse of your board, and for spreading the word, my email's been overflowing. And, sincerely, best wishes. Mark
     
  2. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    It's not a violation, Marty. That's just not true. It's just that people were, rightly or wrongly, expecting more from you. Some of us (myself included) are very very curious about the stories you could tell and maybe also how you're dealing with the past.

    You can certainly "advertise" in the Independent or Freezone sections of the board. As far as putting that in a new member introduction, that's hardly the crime of the century.

    Cheers and if you ever want to say hi or talk to a fellow indie Scn'ist (albeit one without your depth of experience and trainin) please email me at cswazey(at)comcast(dot)net, if you're so inclined.
     
  3. nexus100

    nexus100 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thanks for replying. Good luck on your path. You are overlooking something very important. But we all do to some degree.
     
  4. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

    No worries here, dude!

    Hey my friend,

    Whatever works for you. :yes:

    Do not be a stranger,

    Mike, the EP's EP
     
  5. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    I'll agree that your posts aren't a 'violation'. Certainly not something to get banned for, but, ESMB is a *discussion* forum, not a 'Craigs/Rons-List' type marketplace.

    If you feel like discussing things sometime, feel free. In the meantime, you might look more into the personal stories on ESMB to discover *why* there's even anything to discuss. That it's all about people 'dramatizing Case' just doesn't wash.

    Laterz dood.

    Zinj
     
  6. Zander

    Zander Patron with Honors

    I think we're a friendly bunch on the whole. I agree with others - there was no violation of rules.

    Look forward to hearing more from you, whenever you are ready. We love to get all sorts of viewpoints and information here! :)

    Oh, and :welcome:
     
  7. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    Hey Marty:

    I can't speak for all the exes, but I think most of us loved (and perhaps miss) helping others and most of us STILL do! (using one form of help or another).

    I applaud you for keeping that desire alive and acting upon it, as that is ALWAYS a VERY good thing, imho.
    'Course opinions will always vary and differ as to IF what you are using REALLY helps or not, but 'spose it's between the counselor and the person being counselled, (as it should be). :confused2:

    But PLEASE give us all some stories!!! :begging:

    HOW did you get out, WHEN? Why?

    And, How did you hook up with Jason B? And are you in contact with Mike Rinder, too? Any others?

    Come on' Marty! YOU held a very high post!

    Give us SOMETHIN'!!

    Just type it up and paste it here, you don't have to be an active poster here if that's not your thing ya know.....:)

    Michelle
     
  8. Thalkirst

    Thalkirst Patron with Honors

    Thanks for the response.

    Why I left the Sea Org, I left with a lot of unanswered questions. During my 10 years of service, I accumulated a LOT of mysteries.

    When I found ESMB, I found a lot of answers, too. I got the data and finally, a lot of things made sense. I nearly learned more about Scientology and the Church in a few months than I learnt there inside for 10 years.

    You mentioned that you are into healing. Learning all these data was very therapeutical to me. After the constant make-wrong attitude I encountered in Sea Org (you pulled it in, you are out-ethics etc.) it was a great relief to recognize that though I had my fair share of responsibility, the organization and its Founder are definitely responsible certain things.

    So I was to undo the fixation on these unresolved issues on the past and I was able to move on and create a better life.

    That's why it would be crucial to share whatever you want to share about your service in the Sea Org, Commander.

    I am especially interested in the following:

    - Whatever happened to Pat Broeker? Was Flag Order THE SEA ORG AND THE FUTURE indeed a forgery? Is DM a legal successor?
    - What do you think about the current direction the Church is taking, i.e. David Miscavige and his leadership? What is your view on the ideal org strategy and the Basics re-release? Does the SP Hall exist?
    - What is your ideal scene concerning Scientology?
    - Where is LRH? Do OT Levels IX-XV actually exist? Did LRH attain "Total Freedom" as shown on the Bridge?
    - What do you know about the following people - Guillaume Leserve, Marc Yager, Norman F. Starkey? Do you know who is running OSA these days?
     
  9. Pooks

    Pooks MERCHANT OF CHAOS

    <sigh> Don't get all ser facy Marty, It's not a violation at all, you have MU's.


    Dropping a bomb, like, Hi I'm Marty Rathbun, Former Inspector General Ethics for RTC, the group that was responsible for fucking you guys up, ... well, I'm out now, and I'd like to help, and then not replying to questions and discussing Scn with people is srsly fucked up.

    also, please learn2paragraph.
     
  10. Been Done Had

    Been Done Had Patron with Honors

    I don't think there was any violation, may just be a matter of finesse. A non-E post to say "Hi I'm here." Then the offer to help. This board has a real sense of community, and is incredibly well moderated.

    The people here are very, very accepting and welcoming to anyone who posts. The default position is to give new members ARC and space. I am a little taken aback that so many have laid into you and not kept the environment safe for you.

    Like you said, everything is context. Your role in the church has been somewhat mythologized, and rightly or wrongly you are a sort of bogeyman for many who left CofS in pain.

    I welcome you here and welcome your participation in this board in any capacity. I really do beseech you to participate here. You stated your intention and ability to help people. You can do that right here and right now.

    Please, share yourself with us. Do it your way on your terms. Do not underestimate the value in your contributions, ANY contribution. You can help so many heal simply by being here and communicating.

    ML

    BDH
     
  11. MarkWI

    MarkWI Patron Meritorious

    Thanks Mark for this second message.
    There are many on this board (Leon, Terril, Mark, ...) that consider at least part of the Scientology tech useful, they are auditors and they audit to help others. There are others who even developed further and corrected many of LRH mistakes about Tech and Organization, they are accepted on the board too. I believe there is space for you too, if you can accept that we are not a bunch of SPs trying to destroy the world, but are people who saw that something was flawed in the organization of Scientology and and got suppressed/disconnected/harassed for talking about it.

    We enjoy sharing our experiences, in spite of the effort of the Scientology Organization to suppress us and shut us into silence. We are the one who communicate - which is one of the basic principle of Scientology. You seems to be afraid to communicate on a public forum, as if you don't like to be associated to people like us. If that is the case, too bad because I would enjoy your presence here and I believe you would enjoy our chatting too. But everyone choice his friends.

    As I said in and earlier post I find valuable the mission you undertake, to put back in shape ex-scientologists suppressed/invalidated by CoS, or to generally use what you know of the Tech to make people happier. I believe we, on this board, are up to the same task, using a different tool - just simple open communication.

    Bye, Mark
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2009
  12. Takin Time

    Takin Time Patron with Honors

    And this just lets us know how deep the FBI is interested in the goings on in the Church of Scientology.

    Marty/Mark, your life NOW may not be equal to your life back in the CoS, and you may no longer be a target of FBI investigations because your "actions" now are not the same as they were before you left. However, the "actions" of CofS are of intense interest to many others.

    You say (without spelling it out) that you recognize that CoS is 180-degrees turned from their fundamental beliefs. You have not expressed that CoS is a criminal organization, but I'll bet you believe it now.

    It is disclosure of those "before leaving" acts that the Anons and ex-Scios scream for, because they want to effect the taking down of CoS.

    You'll quickly learn, if you haven't already, that ex-scios and critics and Anons are very forgiving of ex-scios who express that they recognize that the "actions" they did while in the CoS (under orders or under policy) were contrary to normal human decency.

    I think this "confession" is all they are looking for, really. Some sign from you that you regret some of the acts done "in the name of the Church of Scientology". Or some acknowledgement that you recognize CoS as a criminal-acting organization.

    Just my two cents worth.
     
  13. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Priceless!

    :giggle::laugh: :roflmao: :hysterical: :thumbsup:
     
  14. Barbz

    Barbz Patron with Honors

    What happened in that meeting between you, DM and the IRS?

    If you want to attest to the state of Clean, you've got some messes that need your attention.
     
  15. ShortStop

    ShortStop Patron

    Hey Marty. Welcome to the boards. Yeah, I'm not surprised you got a mixed reaction. Different people will have different opinions. It's not unusual for people to go through a bit of culture shock when then peek their head out of the rabbit hole. Nothing a bit of communication won't solve.

    Glad to hear you are doing well.
     
  16. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Clearly, I'm not the only one who was left with questions after MCRathbun's posts. Of course you can't answer all questions in a few posts!

    I'm very glad that you are here, and look forward to more of your viewpoint being expressed.

    Don't go leaving just because some people are ARCx.
     
  17. well_that_sucked

    well_that_sucked Patron with Honors

    Offering help that contains even a skid mark of $cientology isn't help, its more of the same. The fact you made this announcement now, on this forum, knowing your position in the cult, betrays your motives: Its a money grab.

    DIAF
     
  18. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    It's dialectical materialism; see, you take this raisin-studded turd and mix it with peanut butter, then...

    Zinj
     
  19. I don't think he owes us an explanation about anything. If he wants to help people, great. Personally, I think he may be out of the Church of Scientology, but the Church of Scientology is not out of him. I think Scientology is a bad thing, but that is my opinion. If his experiences tell him otherwise, that's what he has to act upon.
    But anybody's step forward is a good thing. Just so that one stays objective enough to be aware if the step forward is also two steps back.

    The Anabpatist Jacques
     
  20. LRonAnon

    LRonAnon Patron

    Marty, I don't care if you audit people, or have plans to go to 'target-II'. Thats not something that concerns me.

    What does concern me is the FACT that you, as 'the most ethical people on the planet', played a big role in creating an unethical monster called CoS.

    You, Marty Rathburn helped to devise and and act to make things happen that harmed many people. You Marty Rathburn affected people lives directly and indirectly. You have harmed people far beyond the limited scope of your narrow vision.

    Your efforts are still causing harm today yet your not big enough to see that.

    Good luck with your auditing. Maybe one day you'll man up and own what you have done.