movin' on up

[chuckbeatty]

My husband is routinely in touch with Marty and he sent a copy of the link to us directly. It's authentic. And the photo is recent.

Agreed this is legit, meaning from Marty Rathbun. Someone I know said they've seen Marty right there in Texas, and had a good time meeting with him.

This sort of makes sense in a way. Marty last was successful in his final years, as a sec checker/investigator/counselor/debugger at Int, and I heard from some people that they loved his tech quality.

So, my guess, is he's doing this, since this was actually his last successful post inside the top ranks at Int, and he's offering his debugger/invest/sec checker/counselor skills to mainly ex Int staff ground to shreds under the DM reign at Int the last 5-10 years.

Plus, my guess is this is sort of an in your face rejection of DM's rejection of Marty, and Marty's saying he can still help people, even if DM years ago demeaned and belittled Marty and tried to push that negative opinion on Marty.

Marty's disproving DM's opinion of Marty, and Marty's help "clean up" the mess of invalidated ex senior members that DM has left a long trail of, these last 5-10 years.

Using what he knows to try to help those screwed up.

I see it though, that someday Marty will see that it's not just DM. It's the Hubbard accumulation of rules and ideas, that lead whoever is stuck in the Sea Org into bashing each other inevitably with the huge number of Hubbard on policy options to make each other wrong 24/7.

I vote the Hubbard system as the culprit, not us who were stuck with the bad options of targeting each other for all the failures.

Keeping Scientology Working policy actually is the key policy that shows it is everyone's fault, except LRH's.

Thus, to me now, it is LRH's fault. He left the stiffling system. And only our fault for accepting and following his smothering preponderance of ideas and orders.

 

[Emma]

Maybe having Sec Checked from the top of the tree, Marty has an even better idea than most about what ill effects Scientology creates in people and how to nullify or reverse them.

Fropm his website:

A lot of folks seem to be suffering from the inculcated idea that once they depart or cease to slavishly follow every arbitrary dictate they automatically forfeit any spiritual gains they may have attained along the road. Natively conscientious as most beings are, such an evaluation can begin a pernicious dwindlng spiral of self-invalidation and unhappiness.


I understand this phenomenon and the internal dichotomies extant within the organization that bring it about. In the process of reversing the decline in myself and in others certain lessons were learned that might be of some assistance to those who have experienced the same.

I offer a simple program of rehabilitation of previously recognized abilities and education on universal truths and principles of spiritual growth. I do not offer a substitute for Scientology nor am in competition with the Church. I am only offering to share all the skills I have learned – from a wide variety of sources - to help those in need who once formally participated in Scientology but who now hold no hope nor intention of ever seeking help from the Church.

Possibly Marty is doing what he thinks he can do to make amends?

 

[nexus100]

Marty needs money. I saw no intention of amends in his post and why should he? He still knows best so far as I can see.
If that is not true let's see it.

 

[chuckbeatty]

Maybe having Sec Checked from the top of the tree, Marty has an even better idea than most about what ill effects Scientology creates in people and how to nullify or reverse them.

Fropm his website:
,,,snip,,,Possibly Marty is doing what he thinks he can do to make amends?[/COLOR]

that was my immediate thought. Some ex Int staff said he was a good sec checker and auditor etc. One thought he was the best at Int in the early 2000s.

He's serious. One person told me they have met with him in Texas, stayed a week, etc.

I don't think I could be fixed up by someone not trained completely outside the Scientology mindset, myself.

I don't think anything Hubbard's system of rules messes up can be fixed with that system.

Only if a Hubbardite completely apologizes and admits what they did was wrong, and then tries to do NOTHING further, would I accept an apology from a Hubbardite.

I'd accept a sincere apology, and a genuine demonstration of contritenesss. That's all I need. I don't need an ARC break session or list correction on the wrong indications screamed at me by DM.

I'd rather sit down and read the long list of critical books written on Hubbard.
I have done that, and people who are way smarter than me and smarter than Hubbard have said some very excellent things about how off Hubbard's ideas are.

I find the "List Correction" and "Prepared Correction Lists" Hubbard "repair program" approach is superficial.

It's superficial, because Hubbard's correction tech does NOT include condemning Hubbard's flawed ideas!

So even if one gets all the "wrong indications" and irrational DM behavior indicated as wrong, what isn't addressed is Hubbard's wrong policies and wrong ideas.

I find books which deeply go into Hubbard's human flaws, and the valid faults of his ideas and rules, THOSE writings in books and good media articles and good TV shows, THOSE conclusions by smarter outside world minds to me are the satisfactory "List Correction" and the "Correct Indication" of what is goddamn wrong with Hubbard and his rules and "tech" and debris from the application of all of Hubbard's lineup of ideas and rules!

I'll take the excellent valid criticism in books about Hubbard and Scientology.

That is the correct indication that works fine for me.

 

[nexus100]

It doesn't matter to me at all-zero-if someone kneels to the altar of anti Hubbardism or not. What I care about is what are you doing now? What do you believe, are you going to operate with Hubbard philosophy, do you think Hubbard clearing and OT ideas are true, has the basic LRH truth been obscured and deserves clarity, or is it just jive?

What does Marty think? That's what I'd like to know.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

Marty needs money. I saw no intention of amends in his post and why should he? He still knows best so far as I can see.
If that is not true let's see it.

This how I see it as well, and getting worse as this thread goes on with no more posts from him.
So far it's in bad taste to poke his head in and not do more than ask for money.
Maybe he wants to "help" those formally from INT but that is not so much what his post indicates.

If he leaves it at this, he's as spineless as DM is.

 

[mysterysandwich]

after midnight

I know next to nothing about exif info, but that pic wasn't taken at midnight. Looks like a default date and time. Can you explain more?

Paul

I took some photos after midnight one summer, in the month of August, in a location well above the Arctic Circle.

There, even a full two months after the summer solstice, the sun is still visible above the horizon at that hour and is convincingly evident in at least one of my shots.

Are the posted photos taken at a similar latitude? If so, then the quality of lighting in them is easily accounted for.


It is quite an amazing thing, incidentally, to witness the "midnight sun"-particularly as day moves towards what would normally be dusk. In the polar regions, the sun rises and descends on a line much more tangential to the horizon than nearer the equator. In the tropics, where the sun disappears directly down over the horizon like a falling stone, night is rapid, while in the far north (and far south), the sun moves across the sky like a stone skimming on water and dusk can seem endless.

Just some trivia for ya

 

[Thalkirst]

Dear Mr. Rathbun,

after everything you went through, that's all you have to say to the ex-Scientology community?

That you would fix up whatever damage the Church caused in the individual... for a fee? (Even it it is a nominal one.)

For some reason, I don't see the words "sorry", "excuse me" or "forgive me" in your introduction.

Also, I believe you are a DSEC graduate... so why don't you handle the REAL source of the problem - the Church that is producing people with said problems of self-invalidation and spiritual confusion, instead of fixing up these people.

I appreciate your efforts to help these people, but due to your former position
as Inspector General RTC and your knowledge of the illegal and unethical activities of the Church calls for something more.

Your story in a Jeff Hawkins style would be very enlightening.

Sharing your knowledge with the FBI would not hurt either.

Also, the IRS secret agreement is still somewhat a mystery. If you could shed some light on it, that would be appreciated.

 

[Mrs Pattycake]

Welcome Marty,

Well I think I have to agree with Thalkirst and ChuckBeatty here.

Whilst I take your offer of help in the spirit in which I hope you intend it - a real flow of help -

perhaps you are overlooking a much simplier and broader manner in which you could help ...

since you were there in the thick of it ....

it would be very beneficial for a lot of us to hear what the f@#k was going on at INT ? What the f@#k DM is up to ?

perhaps a thorough outline of this would help a great many to "as-is" some of the unexpained idiocies and mysteries of our times in the C of S.

I think we need to know what led you to leave the C of S - and how that came about.

Perhaps you have been paid off and can not say - ummm -if not you should defend your integrity.


Whilst I believe most of us have moved on past a lot of this and have like Chuck says , identified that the real problems stem from a much deeper source than DM or INT -from LRH policies themselves - I still think it would be very helpful for many.


It would also be helpful to hear which aspects of LRH tech you now have disagreements with and which you find to hold universal truths - so that we may compare them to our own new evaluations of what is true for us.

You could be of great service to the community in these ways

 

[Anon678]

I checked the exif info on the picture and this came up:

Exif Sub IFD

* Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/180 second = 0.00556 second
* Lens F-Number/F-Stop = 67/10 = F6.7
* ISO Speed Ratings = 200
* Original Date/Time = 2005:01:01 00:00:16
* Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
* Focal Length = 26/1 mm = 26 mm
* Image Width = 3008 pixels
* Image Height = 2000 pixels

# Camera Make = PENTAX Corporation
# Camera Model = PENTAX *ist DL
# Picture Orientation = normal (1)
# Last Modified Date/Time = 2005:01:01 00:00:16

So it does not appear to have been changed from the date and time it was taken.

What? Does not appear to have changed? What are you basing that on?

What it does show, is that the picture was not altered after it was taken.

Complete bullshit. If you don't know what you're talking about you should try not to spread missinformation.

 

[Alanzo]

Quite possibly a major troll.

I have mixed feelings about the idea of upper Church execs coming out. Many were the stewards of so much abuse to so many people over so many years that it is very difficult for me to get all googly and cooing over them, and I have an especially hard time calling them "sir".

By their fruits you shall know them.

And I don't mean WDAHs in the Freezone.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Quite possibly a major troll.

Huh?

Paul

 

[Alanzo]

Huh?

Paul

He hasn't re-posted, that's usually a major clue that someone is a major troll.

And do we have actual evidence this is really Mr. Rathbun?

 

[Dulloldfart]

He hasn't re-posted, that's usually a major clue that someone is a major troll.

And do we have actual evidence this is really Mr. Rathbun?

Yes we do. You might not, but others have. Did you read what was said in this thread in support of his genuineness by people who care about their credibility?

Paul

 

[Alanzo]

Yes we do. You might not, but others have. Did you read what was said in this thread in support of his genuineness by people who care about their credibility?

Paul

No. I'm afraid that I didn't read the whole thread.

All the gushing and propitiation for a person who personally benefited from so much abuse, without any kind of acknowledgment or exposure of that abuse, was making me a little sick.

And the idea that more Scn-style auditing - in the freezone, no less - is going to do anything to correct that abuse is quite laughable.

I'd like to see some posts that provide information that would help the abuse he was involved in to stop.

I would have no problem calling him "sir", if that's what he's used to, after that.

 

[Dulloldfart]

No. I'm afraid that I didn't read the whole thread.

Fair enough. Going off at half-cock again.

Paul

 

[lurkanon]

I would not have come back here either, if I were Marthy. Some posts were welcoming, some oh so judgemental. Hardly conducive to opening up dialogue.

 

[Alanzo]

I would not have come back here either, if I were Marthy. Some posts were welcoming, some oh so judgemental. Hardly conducive to opening up dialogue.

If he can't confront a little HE&R, then how good could the auditing that he is promoting to Exes on ESMB really be?

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

I'm 'assuming' that this IS indeed The Mr. Rathbun..

I understand you quite well Alanzo. It's not that I 'apply' or even 'believe' in Hubbards 'ethics conditions'.. Yet there is a grain of both truth and apllicability in that.

Mr. Rathbun needs to do some fast talking.. He will, if he thinks we're worthy of any respect, as opposed to bloody batshit crazy SP's who should be deleted from society.

If Mr. Rathbun does 'exit counselling', that has to be quite something new for him. Inside the cult this activity did not exist. I very much doubt that any hubbard tech can be applicable... Imagine having a 'cognition' that makes you realize that Scientology is a Sinister Scam Cult!

However.. Mr. Rathbun.. Talk to Arnie Lerma about exit counselling! - Arnie would be the foremost 'expert'. But he might consider you in a condition below non-existence too..

No help for it.. Other than coming forward and explaining stuff at great lenght.

 

[Dulloldfart]

I would not have come back here either, if I were Marthy. Some posts were welcoming, some oh so judgemental. Hardly conducive to opening up dialogue.

Well yeah, but from reports he's not exactly fragile. I doubt if a little bit of honest and surely not unexpected reaction will sway him one way or the other. Overall, considering what he's done, it's amazingly forgiving and supportive.

Paul