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Need talking points to counter "Why don't they go to law enforcement?"

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by moarxenu, Nov 23, 2009.

  1. moarxenu

    moarxenu Patron with Honors

    When I talk to civic and religious leaders about the cult and the damage it does to individuals I often get a blank look and the question "Why don't they go to law enforcement?

    I am looking for some talking points to counter that response.

    My main response is:

    1. Law enforcement often refuses to take action because they themselves are afraid of reprisals from the cult, particularly policemen with families.

    2. In order for individuals to get justice they have to sue, and lawyers refuse to take cases because they are intimidated by the cult.

    3. The proper analogy for Scientology victims vis a vis the cult is an organized crime operation like the Mafia or the Columbian drug cartel. This is not a case of a few bad people in an organization doing a few bads things.

    I could use your ideas and stories to improve my response.

  2. byte301

    byte301 Crusader

    They're afraid to go to the authorities and become a target of the cult.

    They don't have the money to be in court for years and years.

    They are totally traumatized by their experience in the cult and just want to go hide and try to recover.

    They have to rebuild their lives and don't have the time or resources to fight the cult.

    And of course some of them are still so braindead they don't want to screw up their chance of getting back in the cult. If they sued or went to the authorities they can kiss their future in the cult goodbye. I know, I know! Crazy isn't it? :duh:
  3. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    How is the person going to prove it?

    And much of the time the persons family is going to disconnect from them if they do.
  4. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    it is considered a high crime to call the police on another scientologist, simple as that. Deal with it through ethics.
  5. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    The first response needs to be - the Battered Wife Syndrome. And second to that - this is blaming the victim for what was done to them.

    The essence of cult control is to inspire in the victim the idea that they will not survive without the cult. Once that has been done - how can the person call the police and possibly destroy something that they now believe is their only saving grace?

    This is the same mechanism (and question) that gets asked of abused spouses and abused older children - why did you not just run away? Why did not call the police?

    Thirdly - disconnection. By doing what they suggest a person would risk losing his or her entire family. And possibly their livelihood.
  6. moarxenu

    moarxenu Patron with Honors

    Thanks. This is really helpful. More opinions here would be valuable.
  7. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Moarxenu, if you can get a hold on the PTS/SP package or the ethics book you could read it for yourself and show it to people.
  8. Kookaburra

    Kookaburra Gold Meritorious Patron

    Mick's response is spot on.
  9. thetanic

    thetanic Gold Meritorious Patron

    Here's a few reasons:

    1) The police have done nothing for the person so far (or living conditions within Scn generally), so why would they help now?

    2) What if the police are infiltrated? (Probably most of them are)

    3) Most scns who've had high positions have confessed to things they didn't do because they were browbeaten into it, thus they fear being arrested and/or prosecuted for things they did or did not do.

    4) Most lawyers don't see the money in taking the case. Most lawyers don't refuse jobs just because they're difficult, they do it because they don't see the risk/reward being there.
  10. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    The mafia analogy might get across more quckly than other explanations.

    Scientlogy is like a spirtual mafia.
    A "spiritual protection racket".
    If you go to the cops they'll come after you.
  11. anon2487

    anon2487 Patron with Honors

    With regards obtaining effective legal representation, Ida Campburn summed up the fears of many lawyers unwillingness to engage Scientology well: being told amongst other things, “You cannot afford us and we certainly cannot afford you. “ “Life is too short to be involved against the Church of Scientology.”

    As you yourself have stated, these fears apply as much to law enforcement as they do anyone else. Most are afraid of what the cult will do to their families and their careers if they take on Scientology. After all, this was the organisation that "shuddered IRS into silence" and acceptance.
  12. byte301

    byte301 Crusader

    Also I read somewhere that the cops actually went to Int a couple of times when the RPF was still there. The RPF'ers told them they wanted to be there.

    There's only so much police can do in a situation like this until they have proof that these people aren't really mentally stable enough to make that decision or they have hard evidence of physical abuse.
  13. pollywannacracker

    pollywannacracker Patron Meritorious

    1. Again, fear of reprisals from the cult.

    2. And just being too darned brainwashed to speak up (as it relates to #1).
  14. thetanic

    thetanic Gold Meritorious Patron

    Aka Stockholm Syndrome.
  15. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    the cofs works on its followers by intimidation, it is very hard to prove any sort of physical coercion or abuse - please note - I am not saying that there isn't any, just that it is very hard to prove.

    The main coercion or intimidation is in the threat of taking away things the person has worked and sacrificed for. People join Scientology and the Sea Org for very "high" purposes. Not one of them joins a "cult" they are joining an answer, they want to help people.

    The cult takes that drive and determination and purpose and first it flatters, "Oh you are so smart..." "You can see further than others" "You are such a powerful.." and so on and then it points out to you that you are being fought against - by out ethics people, by the environment, the evil psychs and so on. And at the same time feeding line after line "we are the not quite gone in the graveyard of the long gone." And then it tells you your future is on the line "the future of every man woman and child..".

    With that being rammed into your head while you are living a life of continuous stress, limited sleep, inadequate nutrition and less and less outside contact the further you move in.

    Going to the police is not an option.

    I would suggest reading Hassan's books and the concept of "milieu control" - it may make it easier to explain.
  16. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    I remember hearing stories about SO members who left, who were dying of cancer or living in poverty. No one ever said about people who committed high crimes like talking on boards like this, but it would be obviuos that anyone who went to the pigs would combust at best otherwise explode.

    I know that Sighentology was 'a crock of shit' but somewhere inside I still have thoughts about a touch assist that helped or a session where I felt good. Yes I know that just getting attention from one person for a couple of hours will do anyone good, Ive had fantastic case gain just talking to someone on a bus, but somehow deep inside there will be nagging thoughts that there might be a glimmer of truth in the cult. When someone has just left those thoughts are still very strong, they dont have certainty that he they abused, they still feel guilty for crashing stats. etc.

    You simply cannot be on purpose one minute, then cog 'ah its crap' and go to the police a minute later.
  17. moarxenu

    moarxenu Patron with Honors

    The responses everyone has made are insightful.

    This will really help to get the point across that we need government action and pressure for investigations from human rights organization, churches etc.

    The spiritual mafia analogy is compelling, and I will certainly use that talking to people.
  18. bluewiggirl

    bluewiggirl Patron Meritorious

    Some people have gone to the police, and they face long and difficult battles through the courts that many other ex-Sci's don't feel emotionally capable of dealing with.
    Fair Game and the experience of the McPherson family should be enough for most people to get the idea.
  19. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    That's pretty much the bottom line. :no:
  20. Arthur Dent

    Arthur Dent Silver Meritorious Patron

    Something can be done about it.

    This is an older post I just read. If you read all the replies to moarxenu you will lose your idealism of justice for sure. The patent fear that police, lawyers and courts have about the c of s is only the result of hard work and diligence on the part of the church. How many years now of "going after" every single barking dog to muzzle it, silence it, handle it...or just kill it? 60 years of groundwork has been laid in scn. defense. They have sewn a network of fear producing talons throughout the world on every spectrum from local politicians to Interpol. A sobering thought for me was that, in some way, while in, we all helped get this product one way or the other...when asked to write your congressman about some incident to defend scn., going to Portland or Germany pro-scn protests, screaming religious persecution in the press, posing for a group PR photo, signing a petition, etc. And, of course, those who were unlucky enough to have actually worked front lines in or around OSA.

    The intimidation people feel is terrible. The correct estimation of effort is what is needed to bring it down. A constant, vigilant, unrelenting push back to what has already been established in this network. Just in the reverse. Lots of work. But the good news is that so many are speaking out and, hopefully, the snowball effect of it may make this job take a lot less than 60 years! I hope so!! Like DM says "Something can be done about it!"