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Featured New post from blownforgood - MUSICAL CHAIRS INT BASE STYLE

Discussion in 'Staff "War Stories"' started by Lulu Belle, Sep 28, 2007.

  1. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron


    Fear of being found out!

    Fear of losing their position!

    Fear of someone having more power and reach!

    Fear of....................

  2. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor


    Any one interested in using knowledge correctly must examine and get rid of any such fear infecting them.

  3. Little Bear Victor

    Little Bear Victor Silver Meritorious Patron

    First-hand information

    BFG's information is first-hand.

    I well remember when this happened -- luckily, I wasn't one of the people in there. Very few attendees wanted to describe what had happened; mainly that they had played a game of musical chairs and that the ones who lost were going to be offloaded.

    Not all the people who were there have been offloaded; they were all the top execs on the base; the CO's, Execs and HCO terminals of every base org -- really everyone who had something to do with posting the base. DM of course couldn't just send them out all at the same time. A year and a half later you could find about half of them in the Hall. Some have indeed been offloaded.

    Reading BFG's description gave me a sick feeling -- the same sick feeling that you pretty much got "used to" when working at Int, whenever DM was around or when he was writing to you about some product you were working on. I have plenty of personal experience of events of similar nature to the one described by BFG (although this one is one of craziest ones, it certainly isn't the only one -- the "Int Seances" were even worse than this -- almost every COB meeting had at least some resemblance to this).

    While I wasn't there in the "musical chairs" meeting, this is exactly how COB meetings went, with variation on how he "made his point." Most meetings would take 3-6 hours. It is what he does almost full time when on the base -- after handling his traffic (legal cases, important submission) first thing in the morning, he would hold meetings for almost the entire day, with the usual outcome that the "plans" change. As a result of both the time expended in meetings and the resultant extreme enturbulation almost no production gets done. Of course, "no production" is the main reason he is leveling insane "ethics" gradients on people in the meetings. And he can boast how he personally does all the production on the base.

    To give a few examples of how ethics is applied at the top:

    DM would threaten you by telling you that one of his trusty execs could benchpress 500lbs, so "if you didn't stop lying" he would hand you over to him.

    He would send all the people in the meeting on laps around the building until the "situation was resolved" -- this could be for several hours.

    Threats of offload, SP declare, and worse -- such as the promise to thereafter destroy the person's reputation so that no one would ever want to hear from them again.

    DM found another, better threat: excommunication, which LRH wrote an advice about: Not just SP declared in one lifetime, a person excommunicated from Scientology would be eternally held in the status of an SP, lifetime after lifetime. DM was employing the threat of excommunication starting around 2005.

    Usually several people ended up being sec checked (the question being "Has COB missed a withhold on you?") after every meeting, until they confessed some "heinous crime" that he would thereafter use against them in subsequent meetings.

    He usually spends a lot of time proving that none of the other people in the meeting besides himself are working at all, and that they are severely out-ethics, with lots of detail given, usually from sec check KRs, which he reads as his primary information source on Int Base activities.

    Then he goes over non-complied-to orders in great detail, explains how stupid people are, how they never intend to get the products done, wait for him to do it, how people don't care about Scientology, don't apply it, don't keep Scientology working, don't put ethics in, don't produce, etc. Hours and hours of this. While he "has to do it all himself."

    If there is an actual submission that he has reviewed (for about 30 seconds before he decided it was a suppressive proposal), this is usually thrown (literally) at the person, on the table, on the floor, and the person has to leave it there until the end of the meeting, when they can collect it up. More often than not, it has taken weeks if not months to put the submission together. That's how he "handles" traffic (Or, more precisely, that's how he handles life). And you get to hear how everything has to be resubmitted to him a hundred times and how people are working him to death.

    Of course, he insists all submission have to come to him. (How could he otherwise personally reject them?) All under the guise of "Keeping Scientology Working." He probably has an MU on "working." He surely keeps all of Scientology working overtime, redoing projects and products anywhere from 10 to 100 times. Then, once he has rejected the work enough times, he picks it up and does it himself in a few hours to prove that the work was easy but that all the people in Scientology International Management are incompetent, counter-intentioned, out-ethics and suppressive. And says so.

    (I'm describing this very mildly.)

    The meetings frequently go through the night. DM claims that the only place he is off-schedule is the Int Base. 400 people still there and another 500 no longer there can tell you the same thing: The only reason the base is off-schedule is to try and get DM's endless orders complied to. Of course, he has "nothing to do" with running management as per his legal position as the Chairman of the Board RTC...

    DM loves to declare and offload people in person. Many meetings were called for that particular purpose. He had decided to offload and declare someone, and wanted to make sure this "head on a pike" would be well advertised. These meetings also could take an hour or more. Note that he had beforehand decided to offload the person, and then would work the person up to say something he could "offload them on the spot" for. The things people got offloaded for included 1) Not acknowledging DM, 2) Not hearing what he said, 3) Not answering the question, 4) Misunderstanding the question, 5) Lying (DM knew the "truth" better), 6) Looking at DM in the wrong way, 7) Interrupting what he was saying, etc, etc.

    Can anyone imagine being offloaded that way, or have good friends of yours offloaded for any of the above reasons, never to see them again?

    Welcome to a COB meeting. Hope you live through it.

    That's pretty much the attitude you went into one, every single time.

    Non-compliance to vital orders is of course one of the top "reasons" for declare. That's easy to arrange, because of course you always had some unanswered or non-complied with COB order: The COB traffic to the Base is enormous in volume. The RTC Building (which became the CMOI Building and then the Nobody Building) had every piece of COB traffic in it, from the late 80ies to present time. It was also computerized in a huge database, and was for a while accessible to select people on the base that were "trusted" and most directly on his lines. It would be impossible for me to accurately estimate the volume of traffic, but many locations on the base that had copies of traffic to that area or post alone had 50-100 binders of COB traffic. If I would try to guess at the total volume of traffic to the Int Base in the last ten years, it would be somewhere in the order of 10,000 binder's worth. And that's not all the traffic -- that's the base with some 400 people. Then there are his orders to CST, ASI, OSA, middle management (ILO, FB, ABLE, WISE, SMI, I HELP), continental management, Pubs, etc, etc.

    By actual count, the average time a person who has dedicated his eternity to the service of Scientology can take this has been around 20 years before an offload or blow.

    I suspect that being offloaded you are less likely to talk about your experiences, as that puts you at "total effect" and cave-in. Blowing at least somewhat puts you at "cause." So he wants to make sure you are as caved-in as possible before he gets rid of you.

    You can also tell that "your turn" is coming, if you dare to look at it. DM starts a few days or a few weeks before he offloads or declares a person to "work" on them, to make their life hell on all possible ways. One negative mention in a COB despatch usually results in ethics investigation, several (or one more severe one) in sec checking and/or post removal, assignment to decks or demotion. He works up the gradient -- sometimes slowly, sometimes rapidly -- until the person is in a thorough state of despair and cave-in. Then he kicks you out.

    I have heard much less from people who were offloaded than from ones who left by their own decision before it happened.

    So, if anyone currently in the SO asks you if they should route out or wait until they are offloaded, please tell them to leave now, not wait until they are caved in by this individual and kicked out in a state that is more difficult to recover from than if they simply take matters in their own hands.

    I recommend it, from the heart.


    (Note that I haven't even described the physical abuse that went on in some meetings. Most of them I only heard about, but a couple I saw myself. But the mental side may well be much more more important. Who couldn't take a few beatings when they "deserved" it?)
  4. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    No it would not. Scientology destroys good people. It destroyed them under Hubbard and its doing exactly that under the Sorcerer's Apprentice.

    You judge something that is supposed to be an applied science by the success of its application. No what you THINK it should do but what it does.

    Where are the results of scientology? The "clears" the "OTs"? They don't exist and all the feel good waffle and success stories by dazzled acolytes doesn't mean diddly squat.

    I do not - you however are confusing scientology "admin tech" and its actions as something other than the result of the ravings of a man who could not even make a simple organization work. This "admin tech" is what continues to enable DM.

    Glad you have something positive out of it.
  5. Div6

    Div6 Crusader


    Thanks for the great post! I have 2 questions.

    1) Would you take the time, at some point, to descibe an "Int Seance" in detail?
    Please? Under a new thread?

    2) My basic humanity wants to help get people out of there. Short of joining a "Hemet Liberation Army" what can I do? I have aleady publically announced my disconnection from DM to my local org, but I'd like to empty the base.....any ideas?

  6. Pascal

    Pascal Silver Meritorious Patron

    DM Reality Show

    I was thinking what it would be to film DM 24 hours for a month. Maybe the Infinity or Sci-fi channel would be interested. Of course after the season DM could only star in Oz being the bitch of a guy named Butch.
  7. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    What I see here is a failure on DM's part to build an efficient team.

    DM is basically admitting it.

    He has all the tech of Scientology available to him, yet he has failed to build an efficient team.

    People who continually blame others are basically admitting their own failure to handle.

  8. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Hubbard 'continually blamed others'
    Scientology 'continually blames others'

    Scientology (and DM) are the direct results of Hubbard's design for the Scientology Movement.

    The solution to the crimes and abuses of Scientology is the elimination of the Scientology organization. The only way that will happen is wide public exposure of the organization.

  9. Pascal

    Pascal Silver Meritorious Patron

    We need to find the Ghandis, Lincolns of the world, audit them and put them in charge of COS. Not whole track losers like DM.
  10. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Now that is an interesting concept.....

    Pitch to reality show producers a show about scientology, starring.....


    Would his "ego" fall for the trap?

    Is he so confident that he would think he could pull it off?

    Is he so naive as to think he could make it go right?

    Anybody with contacts in the biz....?

    (They seem to love the disfuntional, who deludedly perceive themselves differently)

  11. Little Bear Victor

    Little Bear Victor Silver Meritorious Patron

    Hi Div6,

    Since the seances were covered by Jeff H over on XSO, I'm taking the liberty to quote him here (original is message#29995 on XSO and is from January '07). I seem to recall reading a more detailed description of it as well. When I have some more time, I can tell it from my viewpoint.

    The best way to empty the base would be to get outside information in. When on the base, you have almost no idea of what is going on in the rest of the world, even if you think you do. There's no TVs. You can listen to the radio and you can read USA Today. A number of people have internet connections and email, internet connection goes through OSA security filter, email is monitored by HCO. You have no phone lines outside and can't take outside calls unless they are from a pro you are working with and reception knows about it. Sometimes, at least before people lived on the base (I assume by now all do), you could get other magazines and newspapers, but even that is no longer possible except for special post needs such as PR and Marketing, Cine and event research.

    It does not appear, when you are inside, that you are cut off from comm lines as much as you are; you sort of have the apparency that you are only protected against enemies, entheta (what a joke -- DM alone can create more entheta in a day than you get from a lifetime of reading newspapers and watching TV), and other suppressive elements. Despite this apparency, I can tell that most people consider they are being "over-protected" and dislike especially how difficult it is to be in contact with family. More often than not, you just give up the contact or settle for writing letters -- the only acceptable means of communication to family outside the base (and, of course, only to those in good standing or not in Scientology).

    The most difficult barrier to overcome is the indoctrination. You could contact people inside and gain nothing because the communication was from an "SP." That indoctrination is only overcome in the case of very close and important relationships. Only in those cases people will see through the disconnection propaganda. As sad as it is, it is nevertheless true that you best friends will turn against you in a blink of an eye when DM says you are an SP. The reasons for this are many, but one of them is obviously self-protection: Continued communication with an SP makes you either an SP or, at minimum, PTS, so immediate handling by ethics authorities await you if you do so.

    Thus, there is very high likelihood that even the best of efforts will result in nothing. This is a factor in the reality of the situation, not a reason to be discouraged.

    Okay, I'll give you something to consider. You'll have to take the viewpoint of a person who works on the Int Base to see how you could get through to them:

    (These are the "supposed to's" that I think most base staff try to follow)

    Rigorous schedule with no time for slacking off. There is no other time in the schedule but production, really. You are supposed to always think of production and nothing but. Weekly and daily battle plan targets done, COB orders complied to, strategic progress, program and project targets. Shortened meal breaks, just enough time to be studentable (unless it is before an event, which is about 50% of the time, when sleep matters little). Do your basics (graph your daily stats, do your weekly BP, cleaning, handle your hardcopy comm, merc traffic) attend every muster, march (or run) to meals and to berthing. Iron your uniform. It is flat out, just like that, day in day out, for most people. Add to that that you are likely in ethics trouble (99-100% of people are), more or less, so may not have canteen privileges, may get yelled at for looking slack when you are reading your comm in the comm center or stop to talk to another staff member, even if about your post business ("Put it in writing! Get on post!") You get ethics chits and even one chit may be a reason for a court or Comm Ev, if your division is in the State of Emergency. All this and more to make you concentrate on production, production, production and not even have time to think about anything else. The future of the planet, every man, woman and child on it depends on what you do today...

    Now, imagine in the middle of that you get a message or communication that seems "suspicious" or critical. Most likely it will take you about 20 seconds to notice it is so and decide what to do with it. Most likely you will A) not read any further and shred it or B) write a KR on it, attach it and send it to HCO. That is 80-90% likely.

    80-90% will go through virtually anything to remain on the base. They have no other life and, for most, Scientology is their only salvation. (Although DM is doing a good job making Scn delivery on the base an impossibility so most people left there are doing the job not for their own benefit but for those people they think they are helping. God! -- it is such a fallacy it's hard to write these words without being emotional about it.)

    So, we'll go with the 10-20% that won't do so, who have had more than enough and would be ready to call it quits if they only knew they will survive after it.

    That is the main problem for the majority of people who would otherwise leave: The world outside, that they know nothing about, is (so they've been told) a cold, uncaring and dangerous place. And they will be SP declared automatically, whether they route out or blow. And: Where to go?

    Okay, so the odds are against you. Still, I believe a minimum of 10-20% would get out of there if they could get real information about the world outside.

    Even more would, if they could talk to their family, honestly, without the constant idea that you have to forward Scientology PR at every breathing moment whether it is true or not, and without HCO listening on the line. I dare say if that was possible, the figure could be over 50%. Unfortunately, it isn't.

    So, what to do?

    I let you think about that. The key to the answer is seeing it from the recipient's point of view.

    When you think you have some ideas, PM me. We don't need to expose the ideas publicly to OSA (Hi Gloria, sorry but that part's not for you...)

    (For that matter, anyone can feel free to e-mail me with their ideas. My PMs fill up pretty fast, so email would be better. I'll either answer or I won't, depending on what you write...)

    Wishing you all the best,

  12. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think I read this over a year ago, or was it another "musical chairs" post from blown for good?

    It was about the same incident and I read it between one year and two years ago. So, this happened quite some time ago. Maybe a lot of those staff if they were booted out are back at Int now.

    Can you imagine though, all of those people in one room with him and they didn't gang up on him and take him out?

    Sounds like things I read in books from WWll concentration camps.

    And, it's right out there in Southern California!

    It seems like the Int Base staff had it the worse from what I have read. It kind of makes me wonder if being way off lines of usual world, you know, totally out of communication with the environment and isolated in the desert makes people crazy.

    But from what I've heard from BFG DM hasn't been to the Int Base for a few years now, he prefers to live in L.A. .

    Anyway, all of this reminds of the quote from DM's Clearwater interview:

    “People keep saying, ‘How’d you get power?’ ” Miscavige said. “Nobody gives you power. I’ll tell you what power is. Power in my estimation is if people will listen to you. That’s it.”
  13. Pascal

    Pascal Silver Meritorious Patron

    He's right. PTS will listen to an SP more than a social person. SPs get you to commit overts on them and then they have you. DM seems to operate in this fashion.
  14. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    You know, I've been wondering now, BFG was obviously there when this happened.

    It doesn't seem like he was one of the guys fighting for a chair.
  15. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Can you imagine a staff meeting where he shows up one morning to this:

    :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:
  16. Lee_from_phx

    Lee_from_phx Patron with Honors

    You are absolutely right.
  17. NonScio

    NonScio Patron Meritorious

    I recall that the same thing was said about communism. That the Soviet
    Union wasn't practicing "real" communism, Nor was Lenin, Stalin, Mao,
    Pol Pot etc. If only someone would start paracticing "true communism",
    Heaven on Earth would be realized. Communism had 70 years
    and absolute control of nearly 1/2 the world's land mass and
    about 1/3 of mankind to "get real"...apparently it just somehow never could. Scientology has had 50+ you think anyone can manage
    to get "real Scientology" working in the next 20?
  18. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    I seem to be the only one I know that has considered Hubbard had no stats or history of success with business before he set up the organizations.

    It used to creep me out watching people read a policy about dispatches as if they were having some religious experience.

    I never looked at Hubbard as a Donald Trump or a Shriver or a Hearst or a Woolworth or a Ford , any of the men famous for building large successful organizations.

    I saw many outpoints, gross outpoints.

    I mean, if you go to work for someone else do you train with their materials as if you are having some religious experience?

    I worked for Ringling Brothers Circus during road season before I ever walked in to an Org. Those people were wholly organized and dependent upon another for every and any success. Really every person had to know what the other was thinking and doing and coordinate thereby and therewith.

    I think the "Welcome to the team" manual was maybe ten pages long.

    For all I know the Church of Scientology is the first business Hubbard ever organized in his whole track.

    The fact that people read organizational advices as a bible was bizarre.

    And the dress code? Let's dress up like the Navy! :screwy:

    I just didn't take it seriously.

    It was an abortion if you look at the results as of now.

    It was all theory and ideas about a business for crying out loud.

    The auditing you could see with the meter or feel for yourself as a real experience. The metering was a science. He had something there, at least for me.

    Why people turned to the business policies and abandonded even the tech is the wierdest thing I've ever seen.

    You don't see any of those staff actually even using the business policies now!

    You don't see them getting auditing either!

    But if anyone has current information that people are being held in some Hall or imprisoned in any way and they have not contacted the authorities with a report that is just as gross.

    False Imprisonment, False Arrest, Kidnapping,...these are crimes.
  19. Ralph Hilton

    Ralph Hilton Patron Meritorious

    What I observed is that most successful organizations in Scientology were the missions run independently of LRH's management system.

    LRH was clever at creating the tech of Scientology. His music was mediocre, his tech films were corny, his later fiction was naive and his organizational skills very questionable.

    DM is a personality with a lot of LRH's less desirable traits who is somewhat lacking in his stronger ones.
  20. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    You might be the only one "you know," but you are certainly not the only one.