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OT VII Cause Over Life!

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Feral, Dec 16, 2008.

  1. Feral

    Feral Rogue male

    The End Phenomenon of OTVII is supposed to be "Cause Over Life", sounds good doesn't it? But what does it mean? How did it come to get that name and..... who has achieved it.

    Probably every one who reads this board knows what is audited on this level. It was Hubbard himself who, when NOTS was first being promoted said "This deals with the very living lightening, the stuff of life it self", so when the end result is advertised as "Cause Over Life", those in the know might assume one becomes cause over the other beings that might venture into ones space and that may well be the "life" that one gets to be cause over.

    For every one else it might give the false hope that they will achieve mastery over their dominion, work, kids, money, health, other people as well as the myriad of details that you take pot luck with every day. So as a scio approaches the nots levels he might get an incorrect preconceived idea of the level of accomplishment of this very expensive and demanding OT level. An idea that once you get it, well, it sort of sticks. I'm certain that was a deliberate ploy.

    I have read on this very board that the "EP"s for the OT levels were surveyed on the scientology publics to establish which sorts of abilities were most apealing, this could explain the ambiguity, it was a marketing exercise.

    It might also explain why the states never lived up to the promise, the cart was put before the horse.

    My wife and I spent 12 and 15 years respectively on that level, she did finish in 2007, after she was put through an obstacle course that consumed 72+ hours of extremely expensive auditing called the EP check and sec checking, then came home every bit as much her self as the last 20 years I've been with her I vowed I was not going through such a useless activity.

    Our time as scientologists was very soon to be over.
  2. nexus100

    nexus100 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hi Feral
    Everyone at best can only achieve who they were when this universe began. That would be the complete you. That is step one, with further steps understanding each individual person in this place. But it has to be one to one. A large scale address may find pockets of ability. But one's true nature is so easily bypassed this is at best a very large risk. You want YOU, not ability.
    One can find it by understanding life as it happens. The one tried and true.
    Have fun!
  3. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Oh! I seem to be understanding life as it is happening for sure.

  4. Feral

    Feral Rogue male

    Long time no see Nexy!!
  5. Feral

    Feral Rogue male

    I was wondering what the exes and critics here expected from OT VII whether they were close to getting onto it or not.

    To get a real good perspective how about a "then and now" pair of view points?, like what you thought when you were "in" as opposed to how it looks to you today. When you were in was it your goal or dream to get onto and through this horrendously long and expensive obstacle course?

    For me it looks like a pretty stupid thing to do for 15 years!!!:omg:
  6. Carmel

    Carmel Crusader

    When I first heard of OT 7, I wanted it - big time! But then I had a few friends who got on it. Looking at what they were going through, and looking at where they were at, it didn't impress me. To be honest, it gave me the heebie geebies (I was never that disciplined). In addition to that, I didn't see what I expected to see. The more on OT 7 that I knew, the more I thought that it wasn't for me.

    I'm attracted to disciplined people - probably because I'm not (my hubby is one - for example). I could and would have stepped up to that discipline, if I thought the sacrifice would have been worth it - but nothing I saw made me think that. From an on-lookers perspective, it was just a long road of much sacrifice on many dynamics, and at a huge financial cost, that led to God knows where - we certainly didn't have a stellar example of OT 7 completions in ANZO.

    Sh't of a thing to say probably, but that's where I was at in regard to OT7.
  7. Nishi

    Nishi Patron

    What to says about OTVII : basically you are working to free the part of your case that is not determined by YOU. A lot of work, tough to go through. Hope peace and silent in our mind :eyeroll:
  8. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Some say it's to remove the part of your bank account that is not determined by you and to remove the part of your self determinism that is not determined by you.
  9. DartSmohen

    DartSmohen Silver Meritorious Patron


    The super secret, HIGHLY confidential EP is;

    CAUSE OVER WALLET :clap: :clap: :happydance: :thumbsup:
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Silver Meritorious Patron

    Solo NOTs EP

    My opinion is that Solo NOTs gets you cause over the 5th dynamic, life forms and how they relate and interract with each other on a theta level.

    I was always curious about one success story talking about huge ridges blowing up far away into the void of space. Anyone here experienced this?
  11. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I've had the feeling in session several times that ridges were disintegrating a very great distance from my body, sometimes with a long line charge and floating TA. I've heard others describe it too. I assume it's not that uncommon.

  12. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yep, their cause over your wallet lol
  13. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

  14. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Ridges disintegrate, also, in life, in the course of living. Usually, the person is not compromised by the experience.

    An example of ridges disintegrating, in a compromising situation, would be on stage at a Christian Revival. In the 1950s, evangelist Oral Roberts would disintegrate ridges, and also automaticities, such as stuttering, with a laying on of hands and a "healed in Jesus name!!!"

    People, or their friends or families, would sometimes make large financial contributions to his Crusade, after such an experience, although often the condition would return the next day or next week.
  15. Been Done Had

    Been Done Had Patron with Honors


    I have to ask, and I want to be very careful not to invalidate any real gains you may have had, but what kept you going? Did you get the gains you expected from the earlier OT levels?

    When I was in, I was always continuously missed witholdy around OTs because I thought they could see my pictures. Where OTs conversely missed withholdy because they couldn't?

    It sounds like a lot of stick and damn little carrot on Solo Nots. Did it change you? Any abilities turn on? Did you ever talk with your wife about how you felt? Or was doubt something that was pushed down and not looked at within your marriage?

    OT 7 sounds like a total grind, yet ridges blowing in space are being thrown out as a plus point. Is that real to you? What are the stable long term gains?

    I liken a thetan living in a body to a man living in a fire...

    See a man can see, hear, taste, etc. but the overwhelming sensation of heat from the fire drowns out all that out. As thetans we occupy these bodies whose "heat" drowns out our theta perceptics.

    Did the OT levels tone down the heat and raise your perceptics? Or am I mad for still wanting to believe, to find value in something that was once my entire life?


    P.S. Thought your story was great BTW.
  16. Feral

    Feral Rogue male

    Well BDH, These are "the" questions.:thumbsup:

    On OT VII there were gains, mostly in the first couple of years, then the grind started.

    We kept going because; "the way out is the way through" and "what turns it on will turn it off" we believed OT was ahead of us and we were willing to do the hard yards to get there. Also the ruds do produce relief when used and as our situation tended to put us out-ruds with our lives some apparency of gain was experienced. I now suspect two things; OT VII and NOTS is a questionable approach and that all the real gains a person will get out of OTVII he will get in the first couple of hundred hours.

    I never got what I expected from earlier OT levels but I got enough to keep going, there were some OT gains, maybe they were from actually practicing those skills, skills I now suspect we all have.

    I used to think OTs could see my WHs, truth is if they have a meter and are on solo it is no harder to clean up a withold on another person than on one of your own, without a meter I doubt any OT had more than a suspicion....or maybe that MWH feeling you got was HIS MWHs!!!:omg: OTs possibly have as many witholds as you ever did!!

    There was a lot of stick and carrot, as well as checkbook:eyeroll: But we would tend to blame ourselves for any failure to thrive, I'm sure that is common too.:happydance:

    I'm not sure I get the fire analogy, but will say the extra perceptics I got as an OT were mainly from actually practicing them. The body is a handy way to contact the world, and contrary to Hubbard I don't believe we are any more trapped in our bodies than we are trapped in our cars. If we didn't need bodies to play the games of our choice we would not have picked them up, would we?

  17. Megalomaniac

    Megalomaniac Silver Meritorious Patron

    seems credible

    Hi Feral, I recently realized that this sort of testimony from ex-Scientologists makes me "believe in" the tech far more than wins from Scientologists. Reason is, there is no pressure to only say good things. Since you can just speak naturally, it seems far more credible.

    Really? That is OT. :ohmy: How much ARC with a person do you need to clean up his W/H's "remotely"? I don't know if that's a fair question. I never got very far at all on the Bridge. But I noticed a phenomena where I seemed to know what someone else was thinking, but only if we had super high affinity.

    Thanks for the post,

  18. minnie

    minnie Patron with Honors

    I often heard the pr that OT7 would bring you to power on all your dynamics. I watched alot of the videos promoting OT7
    too with affluent people again and again repeating the catch phrase that they'd 3Xed or 10Xed their income. It was as if they knew that was an expected thing to say. However, I just always felt odd to equate spiritual success with materialistic success. It was all so very crass to me, and actually turned me off the idea of doing it. I preferred the less materialistic wins where someone would say something like they reached out on one side and touched the mountain and reached out on the other side and touched the sun. Sounded lovely. Although unlikely. Then there were the stories of OT7s exuding alot of heat (hot flushes? lol) or being miles from their bodies. I'm sure they could've been exterior alot but miles, I doubt. The emphasis was never on truth when it came to wins so I'm sure there were plenty of exaggerations (not deliberate lies, just a kind of role-playing) - all for a good cause, right?

    I too believe that alot of the general gains would be something one would experience anyhow in the course of life if focusing intently on spirituality.

    Great thread, Feral :coolwink:
  19. Been Done Had

    Been Done Had Patron with Honors

    Thank you, sir!

    The fire analogy is my way of saying that the sensation we (us thetans) receive from our meat bodies, overwhelms our theta perceptics. That the volume of the "body channel" drowns out the "theta channel."

    Is flying ruds on 7 different from earlier solo actions?

    I'm glad to hear you had some gains. And you're right that we have incredible native abilities which are suppressed from birth. Scn tells you with such certainty that, yes, you are a spiritual being, and yes you have awareness and abilities, beyond the five senses. That it inspires you to look and find what is already there.

  20. Pascal

    Pascal Silver Meritorious Patron

    Vade retro lostus sparky!

    When does one know he's done with Solo NOTs?

    When you have no more "louse eggs"?

    Are you proofed of getting more in the future?

    What about if you're stable exterior, does this case affect you?

    I read somewhere than on OT levels other OTs sometimes point to you where to look, ie "Oh you've got one above your bed, behind your ear, etc". Anyone experienced this?