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Part 2 -How many people went Type III (ie. had a Psychotic Break) in your org?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Karen#1, Jan 9, 2016.

  1. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron


    I'd never heard of dear sweet Liorice's disappearance until today!!!

    How could I be on ESMB since 2010 and this had never surfaced?!?

    I saw her once in 1970 when The Incredible String Band played Pepperland in San Rafael. Doug Kershaw with his Cajun fiddle was the warm up act; an excellent musician but he seemed kind of bogus as a person.
  2. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    Hubbard's "ideal vision" was to make himself rich and famous and make all men his's in his "Affirmations or Admissions".
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  3. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Absolutely Birdy!
    LRH had an ideal vision which was
    1)to smash his name in the history
    2) that men shall be his slave
    3) start a religion and make money

    He decided to do this for at least 4 decades and so he did.

    Are men doing that sort of things because they carry their human suffering ???
    Yes, true! All human failures, mine, your and his are basically due suffering AND ignorance
    It explains, but does not justify neither excuses his behavior as many Ron's followers would like it to be.

    I Always wonder how a being can live day after day with so much harming done to others withouth feeling any devastation, remorse for all the suffering\despair he created...
    That's the mystery of major personnality disorders like malignant narcissism and why it's so difficult to treat.

    But one thing has it's own justice..we die as we lived..and eternity is very long...
    He terrorized people and created pseudo evil monsters they wanted to get rid of..and he died terrorized, stuck with his pseudo-monsters he created within his sick mind...not knowing anymore they never existed..since it was pure sci-fi \drugs fantasy.

    Thus, LRH was no genious, no humanitarian, he was only a poor narcisstic ignorant and terrified being who desperately needed help . A 5 years old small kid has more wisdom and knowledge than he had..he knows love, affection, sharing, and don't take any pleasure in harming others. If LRH had been considered for what he was..may be he could have been helped and saved, but for decades, he has been promoted and praised as a super being he never had been...

    His legacy speaks for it.
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  4. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    The psychs are no pseudo evil monsters.

    My father died at 53 years twice having his brain fried with ECT

    I have twice been incarcerated w/o warrant in psychiatric facilities and rendered dysfunctional with gross malpractice

    I reckon most of the harm done has come from persons other than Hubbard; there have been some nasty pricks in Scn

    Those who hold your position rake out all the evidence you can to support the condemnation of Hubbard but he is often well reported to show human deency


    Putting an eight year old deaf girl in the chainlocker is a rather pejorative act. But a woman saw it, appealed to Mcmasterand they went to Ron and he said "O God! I didn't know. Well get her out."

    Hubbard was RESPONSIVE

    The psychopath is not.

    He was highly contentious and combative. But i recently saw a poster characterize Paulette as "innocent"

    She went in with the intention of gathering material for a hit piece. She Titled her book "The Scandal of Scientology"; obviously a DISHONEST work of yellow journalism. The title itself generates bias in the reader.


    I DON'T endorse Operation PC Freakout but Ms. Cooper picked the fight. Neither Elron nor CoS went out looking for some sweet innocent little girl to terrorize in order to get sadistic kicks

    And that SONOFABITCH!!!

    Though sonofabitch he was he was nonetheless a genius...

    Arthur C. Clarke is famously credited with foreshadowing the communication satelites which are so integral to our modern life.

    In DMSMH Hubbard compares the mind to a computer and describes the "File Clerk" function thus foreshadowing the Search Engine another essential factor in modern life

    "The talented hit targets others can not hit; the genius hits targets others can not see"
  5. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    "I have twice been incarcerated w/o warrant in psychiatric facilities and rendered dysfunctional with gross malpractice"

    Oh hell your resilient, it didn't do you any harm, for Christ's sake suck it up man, like those kids in the chain locker did.
    Little David likes this.
  6. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Cognitive dissonance may be very deeply rooted
    It's a whole system of belief that holds whole incoherent system\situations well glued all together to appear functionnal and keeping us comfortable.

    Whatever one my say, expose, demonstrates, won't get the the dissonance to takes one to realize there is something wrong and start picking up , examining, analizing what's wrong..even though it may be very uncomfortable. it takes a desire to confront and a prior basis to compare...a sane situation to compare with an insane situation and make some realization.

    Otherwise, the cognitive dissonance will remain at work..most of us know of it..otherwise we would still be stucked in this cult (saving this planet) and stucked with the belief Hubbard was a genious humanitarian...

    It's sad..but it is the reality of how it works.

    Birdy critical thinking:
    Paulette Cooper pulled it in because she ''attacked'' to poor LRH victim.

    = malignant thoughts\behavior system , still rooted in people's mind..half of a century later...
    = A journalist investigating\reporting is a bad malignant person (sp) that must be disposed of without any sorrow...
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
    Little David likes this.
  7. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron


    Suck it up I did and went back at it

    But, unlike the kids briefly detained it did inflict some serious damage on me

    Tell me something George, would you rather spend two days in a chain locker


    be drugged insensate, beaten and sodomized?
  8. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I repeat:

    Operation PC Freakout is NOT endorsed at this desk.

    But honest investigating and objective reporting does not produce a book title like "The Scandal of Scientology"

    It was a hit piece. It was clearly "yellow journalism"
    Voodoo likes this.
  9. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!


    You , as usual when Hubtard is concerned, you say all and its opposite.

    You often sware about your disagreement of Hubtard's violence and asshole behavior..
    iwhile there is always a ''but''..being the following sentence excusing him, justifiy him and honoring the's a well known pattern of you Birdy.

    Ow well,
    No psychopathy here..ony a good guy who was responsive and combative. (at war..)

    (the thing here is, (with all due respect for your war involvement Birdy) he, and we were not in a war to save a country...
    You tend to see all this thing through your war vetera glasses...It's not a question of internal security neither to save the country....
    See the difference???...Paulette Cooper lived in a free civil word , allowed her civil rights, and was 100% entitled her investigation and to publish her findings, whatever those were with no regards it pleased or not to LRH or you. It still remaine the same..god bless us.

    Although Bridy, when it's time for you to move on, you may chose to get together with LRH on target two and help him to build it a new wonderful LRH world of justice. you won't have any work to do for your USA constitution, there won't be any constitution..only Source policies will be allowed...and you will be soon routed into rpf...

    Sorry! :(
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
    Warrior and Little David like this.
  10. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    You always take the worst of your personnal experiences in your ''wog'' life (since your $cn life seems to have been a wonder) to justify that LRH crimes and vicious torture plans , especially performed on small kids, were not after all so bad..since you (or your son) got worse....

    That is a total lack of empathy ..
    Your own suffering must be tremendously overwhelming , so that you can't empathetize with others suffering ,especially those of small innocent slave kids who were harmed by a sociopath ...and it's sad.

    But the worst is that, as a true image of your great genious friend LRH, you justify all this cruel sadistic torture by saying, candidly, that the kids were ''briefly detained'' (see??? another war\soldier the ennemy is detained..) also you conclude, it didn't inflict dammages on it did to you ..It's amazing.


    A true adult man is a mature being who hold affection toward kids and women, and make use of it's strenght to be protective in all manner, to any kid from being abused and tortured, because as a decent man, he knows they have no mean to defend themselves and they are vulnerable. He makes himself a safety harbor. Otherwise, he is a narcissistic child who never grew up.


    But keep on going Birdy...excuses, justify, and come to the defense of your fuck***..bastard sadistic guru who took fun and pleasure in harming poor small terrified kids....I am glad at least this one is gone to Target 2...On eless...on this this guhluxy..

    I am deadly serious that If I ever read that you again one last time say another FUCK..word about minimizing 's the harm endured by kids who were torturerd by LRH, I will ask EMMA (even though she probably won't) to ban you again for you keep going on on this topic withouth any respect to them.

    Here is my sugestion for a new process to to help you reconnect with LRH ingeniosity:

    That would be to take a picture of LRH and masturbate you while you get an orgasm when the tremendous greatness of the humanitarian ingeniosity hits you.. How about doing that ???

    Meanwhile, best to you for a health recovery or betterment!
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
    Little David likes this.
  11. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron


    I'm christian; I like the material we have from NDE's and though I have not had a classic NDE I have had most enthralling experiences where I have seen what is best spoken of as "divine light"; I hope to be bathed in it when I shed this mortal coil...

    May you and all have such mystic moments of your own, may you embrace what is godly and be patient, tolerant and forgiving in the presence of raging psychopaths like me. Sorry. I'm a soldier. It's part of the job description.
  12. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    No way!

    I refuse to read anymore your insanities about people who had suffered because of this cult and LRH cruelty and minimize it or make them deserving it, while you constantly praise him.

    NO FUCK...WAY!

    And try another fish, I won't succomb your attempt to get my pity for you poor being, not responsible for his behavior.... I have much empathy for your strugglings, sufferings, but I don't have any pity for your total lack of empathy for harmed and abused kids' ...Like LRH, you always make it about YOU, even when you are offensive to LRH victims..It's amazing!

    Sorry, but you don't have the property of suffering..on this planet...
    I am done with you now! :eek:

    (and refuse to chat with you anymore unless you take time to reflect and make sincere apoligies for the minimizing of the suffering LRH inflicted to kids...and the perpetuation of such victimizing by you and some others in denying its true cruel nature and harming consequences)
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  13. IWantOffThisTrain

    IWantOffThisTrain Eternal Optimist

    I just followed the link and the only post I can see is one from last year for an Addiction Hot Line and the only comment is by Ritchy, Wendys husband. WTF is wrong with these people, if Scientology has all the answers and Narcanon can cure a drug addict why didn't they get help for Wendy instead of abandoning her? How can they recommend their addiction hotline when they wouldnt even use it for someone they loved? How can they face each other knowing that they turned their backs on Wendy and she took her own life?

    I know the answers to my questions are all the's how Scientology teaches Scientologists to handle people. It kills compassion for each other.

    It's odd how angry her post and his comment made me.
    Type4_PTS likes this.
  14. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    With the thoughtful adoption of the Clay Pigeon moniker, I think the concept here is to set oneself up deliberately to be a target, or, as self descriptive of having been made a fool of.

    There doesn’t seem to be much acknowledgement of the later so I’m going with the former.

    It's TR O Bullbait. Fuck with the exes until they are flat on the button.

    Another similar descriptive would be “shit disturber”.

    clay pigeon
    1. a disc of baked clay hurled into the air from a machine as a target to be shot at
    2. US slang a person in a defenceless position; sitting duck

    Idioms and Phrases with clay pigeon

    A person easily duped or taken advantage of, as in You're a clay pigeon for all of those telephone fund-raisers. The term alludes to the clay pigeon of trapshooting, which replaced the use of live birds in this sport in the 1860s. Its transfer to figurative use in the first half of the 1900s probably is explained by the much older slang use of pigeon for “dupe.” Also see fall guy.
  15. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    Well birdsong...

    I don't believe half of what you say about your past. I do believe that there is a difference between what happened to people under hubbard's command and what has happened to you. What happened to them wasn't all that harmful, what ever it may have been, because it happened to them. What happened to you was extremely harmful, what ever it may have been, because it happened to you.

    You don't even need to tell me birdsong, because you already have, would you rather pity others or pity yourself?
  16. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I have never called LRH a "humanitarian", neither now nor when I was in CoS do I or did I call him "Mankind's Greatest Friend", I had significant reservations about many policies and practices and Elron when I was in, I don't whitewash him and I did not do so then...


    I do not agree with the demonization of him and although the chain locker is LIGHT, MILD, and predictably HARMLESS child abuse; by FORENSIC standard MISDEMEANOR and not FELONY abuse it it just doesn't carry enough weight to have any bearing on the consideration of Hubbard's work

    As to The Constitution...

    The Qual Sec who, with goldenrod colored light saber drawn four years before the first Star Wars flick marched me down to I&R with me protesting on First Amendment grounds was quite surprised to discover I was in possession of a blue bladed light saber of my own

    I made DAMN sure it was understood our Constitution and Bill of Rights was not violated when I was in

    Now unruffle your feathers Lotus...

    I well defend the Constitution which defends your right to your perspective and it's expression and needn't feel threatened by my different perspective
  17. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    'Tis a sad state when I pity others for I must feel unable to help them to pity

    Self pity?


    It's pretty goddam disgusting how very much self pity I've wallowed in. None at all over having been stomped by the shrinks or any of countless wrongs suffered

    But the many hundreds of nights crying over the heartbreak of that woman who bore our sons and the separation from them; what loathesome folly to waste so much time and energy


    I vastly enjoy the many pro bono works I've done; feed the hungry, comfort the bereaved

    Pity is thought to be close to love but love is where it's at

    Of course you seem be a pretty loveless sort yourself; probably atheist and materialist...
  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I chose Clay Pigeon because THAT'S what the fuck I am on this board
  19. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    No you're not ... you drive me nuts sometimes (lol) but I'm really glad you're still here, you definitely add something to the board.

    I'm really happy to see that you are not back in hospital too (you mentioned elsewhere that you may be back in by today) ... stay well Birdie.

  20. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    For anyone interested, here is an excerpt of a post which contains a real legal opinion as concerns this matter posted by afaceinthecrowd:

    "I had my monthly lunch today with my very dear friend and Attorney of 25 years who is in his 44th year of practicing Family and Business Law, and has prevailed in over 80% of the Cases he has argued for Plaintiffs/Defendants before a Judge and/or Jury. We talk about everything from Football to Politics to getting along with Women to getting old to WWII (he’s a most impressive buff) to our current life goings on, and everything else in between.

    On a whim, I summarized for him the particulars of the Derek Greene Apollo chain locker incident and some of the other Apollo children in chain locker stories I have read, and have had related to me by first hand observers.

    He said that the elemental facts would constitute, in all US Jurisdictions Endangerment of a Child, which is classified as Child Abuse and, due to the age of the child, in virtually all US Jurisdictions would be a Felony, and certainly in all US Jurisdictions if the child was injured.

    He said that give or take a year or two in most US Jurisdiction, if a child age 8 -17 was Endangered more than once in the summarized fashion, it could constitute a Felony as well, depending upon the particulars and number of incidents; that if any child from 8 to 17 was injured, or suffered damage to their health (physical or mental) during the first and only occurrence, or any occurrence, it would also constitute a Felony; that there are some Jurisdictions where, in the case of a child 8-17 Endangered as the stories describe for several days...depending on other mitigating circumstances...would be a Misdemeanor; that in most of those jurisdictions a "serial" or multiple and repeated commission of the Misdemeanor Act of Child Endangerment within a time span of years, not decades, constitutes a Felony, as would any injury or damage to that child during any commission of the Misdemeanor Act.

    He also said that if the person that committed the offense was not a parent, close Relative or Legal Guardian of the child they would invariably be viewed by and dealt with more sternly and harshly by the Judicial System; that the Statutes re: Child Endangerment and Abuse haven’t changed as much as some might think…but, the enforcement of those Statutes by Law Enforcement and Jurists has changed significantly.

    He said that he could not comment as to the International Maritime aspects without “hitting the books” but, if he were Counsel for the Defendant in a US Court, he would tell his client to prepare for the worst of outcomes."
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
    dchoiceisalwaysrs likes this.