Purif programme

[EZ Linus]

Can you please link me to any studies? Thanks

Which ones? The fact that the purification is bogus, that the Purif program is dangerous and Hubbard knew nothing of what he was talking about when he wrote it it, that people have died, that drugs do not get storied in the fatty tissues, or in the body for years?

Google is a good place to start looking, but people have done critical analysis on the Purif itself:

https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Narconon/sources/reports/hogg.htm

and many people from the medical field will tell you that "toxins" are not stored indefinitely in the "fatty cells" of the body:

Proponents of the purification method argue that toxins can stay in the body forever unless you take your vitamin shake and sit in the heat, but such claims cannot be taken seriously without measuring the time such toxins take to leave the body unassisted. Just drinking a lot of water can clean out your system all by itself. It is also worth noting that different chemicals take different amounts of time to leave the body naturally, yet Downtown Medical's research tends to treat toxins as an interchangeable soup. The study attached to the tax return does not even bother to mention before and after levels of toxins whatsoever.

"It's a total myth," said Stephen M. Pittel, Ph.D., a forensic psychologist and a toxicology expert based in California. With more than 30 years of experience in the study of toxicology and substance abuse research, Pittel said he sees no merit in the purification rundown at all. Detoxification takes place naturally, said Pittel, and all doctors can and should do is either treat the symptoms of detoxification through medication or gradually wean individuals away from the toxins. "It takes place all by itself. You don't have to do anything for the body to detoxify itself. There's nothing that does anything to hasten the detoxification process." Pittel noted that the Hubbard method is largely based on the notion that toxins can be stored indefinitely in human fat tissue and that the purification rundown can force those toxins out of the body, a statement Pittel said is false. The only thing that can force toxins out of fat tissue is very strenuous exercise, and even then the reduction would be miniscule, said Pittel. "A sauna's just not going to do it."

-from: http://www.nypress.com/the-rundown-on-scientologys-purification-rundown/

 

[EZ Linus]

That was good advice. The niacin flush is because it dilates (opens) the blood vessels. This helps blood circulation to the skin. Lots of skin problems don't heal because of poor circulation. I've seen a lot of that in aged care. The skin is a great organ and works very well if there's good circulation.

You're right, it doesn't take much niacin to get a flush. No reason to overdo it with megadoses. More does not mean better.

That is interesting about the niacin reaction to help the skin. I can see that. But yes, super high doses are very dangerous. I was just reading more of those studies today and it is extremely dangerous indeed. I never had acne until I hit 30. But by then, even the smell of niacin throws me into such horrible physical trauma, I can't stand to be around it. I don't think taking it would be good for me. 30 was a long time ago, but I still have breakouts.

 

[DagwoodGum]

My experience with niacin (not niacin-amide) was I would get the initial skin flush but not everyday after that.
(IIRC, it was 500mg per day.)
Taking it everyday, the skin flush would decrease to none over just a few days of time. Then I stopped taking it.

That's very true. I didn't get the flush everyday and would try to skip a day or two and hope I'd regain the flush. But I would also place a hot cotton wash cloth over my face to try and draw the gunk out of my pores after scrubbing with an organic soap and also massage the skin. The shotgun approach cleared my acne entirely.

 

[DagwoodGum]

Which ones? The fact that the purification is bogus, that the Purif program is dangerous and Hubbard knew nothing of what he was talking about when he wrote it it, that people have died, that drugs do not get storied in the fatty tissues, or in the body for years?

Google is a good place to start looking, but people have done critical analysis on the Purif itself:

https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Narconon/sources/reports/hogg.htm

and many people from the medical field will tell you that "toxins" are not stored indefinitely in the "fatty cells" of the body:

Proponents of the purification method argue that toxins can stay in the body forever unless you take your vitamin shake and sit in the heat, but such claims cannot be taken seriously without measuring the time such toxins take to leave the body unassisted. Just drinking a lot of water can clean out your system all by itself. It is also worth noting that different chemicals take different amounts of time to leave the body naturally, yet Downtown Medical's research tends to treat toxins as an interchangeable soup. The study attached to the tax return does not even bother to mention before and after levels of toxins whatsoever.

"It's a total myth," said Stephen M. Pittel, Ph.D., a forensic psychologist and a toxicology expert based in California. With more than 30 years of experience in the study of toxicology and substance abuse research, Pittel said he sees no merit in the purification rundown at all. Detoxification takes place naturally, said Pittel, and all doctors can and should do is either treat the symptoms of detoxification through medication or gradually wean individuals away from the toxins. "It takes place all by itself. You don't have to do anything for the body to detoxify itself. There's nothing that does anything to hasten the detoxification process." Pittel noted that the Hubbard method is largely based on the notion that toxins can be stored indefinitely in human fat tissue and that the purification rundown can force those toxins out of the body, a statement Pittel said is false. The only thing that can force toxins out of fat tissue is very strenuous exercise, and even then the reduction would be miniscule, said Pittel. "A sauna's just not going to do it."

-from: http://www.nypress.com/the-rundown-on-scientologys-purification-rundown/

The Japanese grow Chlorella algae in tanks which they turn into pills and powders for the purpose of gentle and continual detoxification among a host of purported benefits. This is what WebMD has to say about it without having any vested interests in promoting it. I'm heartened when I see the Medical Industrial Complex being open to nutritional products.
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-907/chlorella

 

[Anonymous100]

Which ones? The fact that the purification is bogus, that the Purif program is dangerous and Hubbard knew nothing of what he was talking about when he wrote it it, that people have died, that drugs do not get storied in the fatty tissues, or in the body for years?

Google is a good place to start looking, but people have done critical analysis on the Purif itself:

https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Narconon/sources/reports/hogg.htm

and many people from the medical field will tell you that "toxins" are not stored indefinitely in the "fatty cells" of the body:

Proponents of the purification method argue that toxins can stay in the body forever unless you take your vitamin shake and sit in the heat, but such claims cannot be taken seriously without measuring the time such toxins take to leave the body unassisted. Just drinking a lot of water can clean out your system all by itself. It is also worth noting that different chemicals take different amounts of time to leave the body naturally, yet Downtown Medical's research tends to treat toxins as an interchangeable soup. The study attached to the tax return does not even bother to mention before and after levels of toxins whatsoever.

"It's a total myth," said Stephen M. Pittel, Ph.D., a forensic psychologist and a toxicology expert based in California. With more than 30 years of experience in the study of toxicology and substance abuse research, Pittel said he sees no merit in the purification rundown at all. Detoxification takes place naturally, said Pittel, and all doctors can and should do is either treat the symptoms of detoxification through medication or gradually wean individuals away from the toxins. "It takes place all by itself. You don't have to do anything for the body to detoxify itself. There's nothing that does anything to hasten the detoxification process." Pittel noted that the Hubbard method is largely based on the notion that toxins can be stored indefinitely in human fat tissue and that the purification rundown can force those toxins out of the body, a statement Pittel said is false. The only thing that can force toxins out of fat tissue is very strenuous exercise, and even then the reduction would be miniscule, said Pittel. "A sauna's just not going to do it."

-from: http://www.nypress.com/the-rundown-on-scientologys-purification-rundown/

However the 911 firefighters did well adter doing the program. I believe that was due to sauna and maybe a low dose of niacin may be useful for some people...sauna is well known to help expel current toxins. It also opens up the skin to detox and as some people dont sweat much to naturally detox

 

[strativarius]

[bcolor=#ffff00]However the 911 firefighters did well adter doing the program.[/bcolor] I believe that was due to sauna and maybe a low dose of niacin may be useful for some people...sauna is well known to help expel current toxins. It also opens up the skin to detox and as some people dont sweat much to naturally detox

Dox?

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

However the 911 firefighters did well adter doing the program. I believe that was due to sauna and maybe a low dose of niacin may be useful for some people...sauna is well known to help expel current toxins. It also opens up the skin to detox and as some people dont sweat much to naturally detox

How many grand does the Purif cost? Scientology didn't invent saunas. The benefits of things like this have been appreciated for thousands of years. For $139.99 you can get your own portable sauna without subsidizing a criminal organization and exploiting emergency responders ...and still have enough left over for the best vitamin supplements available. If you are concerned about needing professional advice I'm sure the difference would pay for an actual medical professional who didn't have mixed loyalties between their patients and some cult that would roll dice with your liver on 5000 mg of niacin because some fanatical old dead guy told them to.

And you can buy a length of 4" PVC pipe for a few bucks anywhere if you have a hankering to run around a pole until you start to hallucinate and your teeth fall out. Just saved you a couple more grand.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Costway-...hguid=c55c8261-852-1696e0b319a875&athena=true

 

[EZ Linus]

sauna is well known to help expel current toxins.

It is? Well know among who? Hippies? Show me some proof.

And what "toxins?" If someone had actual harmful toxins lodged in their cells or tissues that stayed there--and never came out unless you sat in a sauna--they'd die or be evidently very sick.

 

[screamer2]

It is? Well know among who? Hippies? Show me some proof.

And what "toxins?" If someone had actual harmful toxins lodged in their cells or tissues that stayed there--and never came out unless you sat in a sauna--they'd die or be evidently very sick.

Yes, and doubly so if they wandered into a sauna.

 

[Dulloldfart]

It is? Well know among who? Hippies? Show me some proof.

And what "toxins?" If someone had actual harmful toxins lodged in their cells or tissues that stayed there--and never came out unless you sat in a sauna--they'd die or be evidently very sick.

Well, that was interesting. I googled (actually DuckDuckWent) sauna toxins and got a bunch of hits saying blah blah blah about sweating out this and that, then began to wonder how much of this copy was tainted by Scientology influence. So I decided I wasn't interested enough to try and determine it, so that was that.

Paul

 

[freethinker]

Dox?

Crimminy, it says right here in 2014 that they have a higher incidence of cancer. Maybe they should have done 2 purifs, or stayed in till they dried up like a prune.

Who knows, maybe it would have been a thousand if not for the purif.

For some reason there is no mention of the purif in this article or the firefighters who survived because of it.


9/11 death toll rises as cancer cases soar among emergency workers

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...ancer-cases-soar-among-emergency-workers.html

Thirteen years after terrorists flew planes into the World Trade Center, killing nearly 3,000 people in an instant, the death toll from the attacks continues to grow as thousands of emergency workers contract cancer.

The Fire Department of New York (FDNY) documented 863 firefighters and ambulance workers with cancers certified as relating to their work on September 11 2001, according to the New York Post.

It may actually be part of the scheme mentioned in the article.

A separate scheme, the World Trade Center Health Program, which is run for police officers, construction workers, sanitation staff and other New York City employees and volunteers by Mount Sinai Hospital, said it had 1,655 patients with cancer out of 37,000 who worked at the site of the 9/11 attacks.

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

Let's not forget that the Purif isn't really optional if you want to go to the top of the Bridge. Hubbard represented it as a breakthrough as a point of entry to the lower end of the Bridge, undercutting societal degradation and the common use of drugs and environmental toxins that reduced case gain and the effectiveness of auditing. He ordered all staff to do it regardless of drug history, because they might have eaten non-organic lettuce when they were four and were exposed to smog...or something, so if you break your billion year SO contract after cogniting that you are being exploited then you have to pay full rate for the Purif on your freeloader debt if you still want to go up the Bridge as a public Scientologist (no employee discount applies - exploitation piled on exploitation).

So all Scientologists are basically extorted to pay for the Purif if they ever want to gain all those promised super powers like telepathy, levitation and recalling what you had for breakfast thousands of years ago. I'd also add that like everything else in Scientology if you haven't done it you are considered something less. If you haven't done the Purif then you are contaminated and stupid. It is part of staff enhancement programs and factored into post placement and evaluations for advancement.

 

[Little David]

It is? Well know among who? Hippies? Show me some proof.

And what "toxins?" If someone had actual harmful toxins lodged in their cells or tissues that stayed there--and never came out unless you sat in a sauna--they'd die or be evidently very sick.

 

[DagwoodGum]

Let's not forget that the Purif isn't really optional if you want to go to the top of the Bridge. Hubbard represented it as a breakthrough as a point of entry to the lower end of the Bridge, undercutting societal degradation and the common use of drugs and environmental toxins that reduced case gain and the effectiveness of auditing. He ordered all staff to do it regardless of drug history, because they might have eaten non-organic lettuce when they were four and were exposed to smog...or something, so if you break your billion year SO contract after cogniting that you are being exploited then you have to pay full rate for the Purif on your freeloader debt if you still want to go up the Bridge as a public Scientologist (no employee discount applies - exploitation piled on exploitation).

So all Scientologists are basically extorted to pay for the Purif if they ever want to gain all those promised super powers like telepathy, levitation and recalling what you had for breakfast thousands of years ago. I'd also add that like everything else in Scientology if you haven't done it you are considered something less. If you haven't done the Purif then you are contaminated and stupid. It is part of staff enhancement programs and factored into post placement and evaluations for advancement.

It's obvious Hubbard never came within a mile of a sauna, he was infamous for never taking his own advice wasn't he? He himself was a cold wet glob of toxins.

 

[EZ Linus]

Well, that was interesting. I googled (actually DuckDuckWent) sauna toxins and got a bunch of hits saying blah blah blah about sweating out this and that, then began to wonder how much of this copy was tainted by Scientology influence. So I decided I wasn't interested enough to try and determine it, so that was that.

Paul

Sorry, what you say here isn't computing with my brain data. What do your words mean? Someone else LOLed, so obviously it was "funny," but I seriously don't get it. Can you reword it so I can be in on the joke?

This is reaching, but are you saying *I* Googled "sauna toxins" and posted the first couple of results? Because it was a little something like that. ROSE asked for links and she was too lazy to do simply that. I posted the links to what she asked for, then I made another comment on "toxins," which is my opinion. I could Google that separately if you'd like? I just think having toxic anything in your body would make you very sick. I also don't think Googling for information is wrong as long as you can identify that your results are credible.

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

It's obvious Hubbard never came within a mile of a sauna, he was infamous for never taking his own advice wasn't he? He himself was a cold wet glob of toxins.

Even when I was doing the original Sweat Program I thought about this, trying to imagine the Commodore running around in a nylon sweat suit. Ever since I have kept an eye out for any reference or telling by anyone that LRH did any of this himself and to date there has been absolutely nothing. If anyone should have needed to detox it would be LRH from all that smoking. Which raises another point, considering how much the staff smoke like chimneys does smoking or chewing get some kind of pass? If you have to take prescription meds you need to redo the Purif but they never have to retread the Purif because of smoking?

 

[Dulloldfart]

Sorry, what you say here isn't computing with my brain data. What do your words mean? Someone else LOLed, so obviously it was "funny," but I seriously don't get it. Can you reword it so I can be in on the joke?

This is reaching, but are you saying *I* Googled "sauna toxins" and posted the first couple of results? Because it was a little something like that. ROSE asked for links and she was too lazy to do simply that. I posted the links to what she asked for, then I made another comment on "toxins," which is my opinion. I could Google that separately if you'd like? I just think having toxic anything in your body would make you very sick. I also don't think Googling for information is wrong as long as you can identify that your results are credible.

I thought "everybody knew" saunas/steambaths etc expelled various poisons out of the body with the sweat. "Poison" here means something that does harm to the body -- smoking one cigarette does harm to the body, but not a lot of harm. There's a gradient scale spectrum of harm, from very slight to producing imminent death.

I thought it would be useful to provide some non-Scn documentation, so searched for it using the search terms "sauna toxins" (without quote marks). I found various links, but couldn't be bothered to work out if they were wholly independent of the CofS.

I thought "toxin" meant "poison = substance that is toxic", but I now see its primary meaning isn't that at all. Some people here seem not to believe that misunderstood words exist with normal people ... they do. Honest.

Paul

 

[DagwoodGum]

How many grand does the Purif cost? Scientology didn't invent saunas. The benefits of things like this have been appreciated for thousands of years. For $139.99 you can get your own portable sauna without subsidizing a criminal organization and exploiting emergency responders ...and still have enough left over for the best vitamin supplements available. If you are concerned about needing professional advice I'm sure the difference would pay for an actual medical professional who didn't have mixed loyalties between their patients and some cult that would roll dice with your liver on 5000 mg of niacin because some fanatical old dead guy told them to.

And you can buy a length of 4" PVC pipe for a few bucks anywhere if you have a hankering to run around a pole until you start to hallucinate and your teeth fall out. Just saved you a couple more grand.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Costway-...hguid=c55c8261-852-1696e0b319a875&athena=true

View attachment 15107

I like this sauna as it keeps ones head from cooking in the inferno with resulting headaches. I will remember this model if I ever decide I need to sauna. Florida is its own natural sauna, one can't even go outdoors in the summer without your glasses steaming up and your hair getting soggy with sweat.