ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Question for Veda

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by J. Swift, Aug 27, 2011.

View Users: View Users
  1. J. Swift

    J. Swift Patron with Honors

    Veda, here is what Marc Headley just posted on Facebook about what you called a "clown car" in another thread:

    Veda, is this Fair Game still not as bad as the old days? Or is Marc truly being Fair Gamed because he no longer wants anything to do with the Tech?

  2. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    I just posted a bit earlier of the sheer AMOUNT of CALLS to Law Enforcement on Scientology DIRTY TRICKS !

    Whew !
    In 24 hours

    1) LAPD visited with me,

    2)they visited with the ex-GOLD Staff Member. Sheriff were called and showed up.

    3) Marc Headley said ~~
    he had two motorcycle cops, two squad cars and two officers on foot surrounding his car.

    This is the amount of Law Enforcement used just in the Los Angeles area in 24 hours !!!!​


    A 501C3 that causes on going appeals to the Police !

    Marc Headley (Blown for Good) and Claire have been stalked relentlessly in Colorado (where they re-located to)

    They had stalking PIs menacingly follow them all the way (driving) to Colorado when they drove off in moving vans to re-locate a few months ago.

    The "Church" of gang stalking THUGS uses Parishioner money and Private Investigators for ongoing vengeful attacks.
  3. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    It's my understanding that Veda is referring specifically to the M&M show.
  4. J. Swift

    J. Swift Patron with Honors

    Well that is exactly why I ask Veda these questions:

    1. If the Cult stalks, harasses, and tries to emotionally, financially, and spiritually destroy Indies then is this not Fair Game?

    2. If the Cult stalks, harasses, and tries to emotionally, financially, and spiritually destroy former Scientologists who want nothing to do with the Tech then is this Fair Game?

    3. If Fair Game was far worse in the past as Veda claimed, then would Veda say that the Cult's recent raid on Emma's house in which it attempted to get her arrested and imprisoned was not as bad as the old days? Veda?

    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  5. Jump

    Jump Operating teatime

    I'd say they continue to do whatever will cause physical, psychological, financial, emotional or legal harassment if they think they can get away with it.
  6. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I can't answer for Veda but I meant Marty and Mike specifically, not "Indies" in general, or other former scientologists, in my post. Veda was saying they in particular seem to be getting "fair game lite", ie noisy investigation. I'll bow out now.
  7. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    My opinion is that Fair Game is tailor made for each individual.
  8. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Yes, and it undoubtedly seems quite real (as Fair Game) when it's actually happening to you.

    The CofS does it, it's mandatory scripture.
  9. SomeGuy

    SomeGuy Patron Meritorious

    In my uneducated opinion, the amount the cult can get away with has been toned down as technology and their history has progressed. So I would say that Hubbard was able to truly destroy his foes either mentally or financially.

    Today, police will take you more seriously, there is a huge network of exes and people willing to lend a hand and even the craziest cult story is now pretty credible.

    So I would agree with the statement that todays fair fame is tamer then in the past. I don't think it's from lack of will but from lack of resources that the scientology falls short of it's mark of being an evil cult in the modern era.

    I think the only people who could answer this question properly are those that have been affected by fair game in the long past and are being fair gamed currently. You know the OSA operative types, like Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun.
  10. Feral

    Feral Rogue male

    You fellers don't get this, back in *my* day fair game meant you were hunted down in the dead of night and gut shot.

    This namby pamby stuff in a golf buggy...well!
  11. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Well, Veda is certainly not alone in thinking that 'the Squirrel Busters' are a sideshow.. I think so too!

    M&M are not 'real' enemies of the cult.. They are on a 'mission' FOR the cult, creating a believeable revolution, and OSA are staging fake fairgaming.

    Marc Headley, I'm quite sure, is considered a real threath by OSA. Not part of the sideshow revolution at all.. In fact, most of the 'independents' aren't in on the side show. They think the revolution is real...

    Am I speculating.. Yup!

  12. Captain Koolaid

    Captain Koolaid Patron Meritorious

    Stalking is harassment, but that does not compare to framing people for serious crimes. Paulette Cooper, Gabe Cazares and Bob Minton were fair gamed, for real.
  13. Feral

    Feral Rogue male

    Schwimmy, you hardly ever write any thing I disagree with, that is now that I'm an SP, but there is no way he's been sent by DM to do what he does, rather I think he's trying to save the cult on Hubbard's behalf from the evil dwarf, in that sense I believe you are correct.

    The only difference is his mandate, not his actual intentions or actions.

    There's no fucking way that this is a set up sanctioned by DM and thus all the pressure that Marty is under is the CofS's best shot at pushing him over the edge. My reasoning is based on the size of DM's ego, which is inversly in proportion to his skill as a people and asset manager.

    This isn't to say I agree with M&M in fundamental principles or endorse every aspect of their thinking, I see their work it as productive at this stage, I also have no reason to believe they will set up anything other than "open source" Scientology from what they've publicly announced.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  14. koki

    koki Silver Meritorious Patron

    I am sure,that if SB are there all day-Marty would already put video with their comings and with exact hour in bottom corner of video... But he put only once in few days,and usually when someone is coming to Martys Bar....
    He KNOWS - that kind of video,where one can see them all day standing there,will prove something....but he doesn't have that... just when they arrive ,he run out and make short 20sec clip.... try go see other clips where he spits on them-fer from his home...... we say there is my truth,your truth and there are facts.
    Big hello from LRHs Bulgraviya.
  15. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    My comments are plain enough.

    And I have not commented on Marc Headley.

    You're free to re-read my posts if that helps you.
  16. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I never said that Fair Game was worse in the past. You're attempting to put words in my mouth, which I don't appreciate.
  17. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    Swifty. Put this in your pipe and smoke it:

    Cof$ = Cult
    Freezone = Cult
    Independents = Cult

    Cof$ Cult + Freezone Cult + Independent Cult = The Greater Cult of Hubbard

    By the way, Veda outguns you knowledge-wise by a factor of at least 10.

    I think your original post was silly verging on stupid.

    Have a nice day.
  18. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    That seems to be very clealy the case. Marc gets the heavy treatment, Marty gets the clowns in the golf cart to spray with water.
  19. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I wouldn't quite call it a sideshow.

    It is odd for various reasons that have already been discussed.

    Miscavige&Cof$ vs Rathbun&Independent Scientology does have the feel of some kind of "mission," but I don't think that David Miscavige is clever enough, or possessed of enough self-control, to formulate a Bad cop-bad Scientologist(Miscavige)/Good cop-good Scientologist(Rathbun) intelligence gathering&public opinion manipulation operation.

    I think it's better to accept it at face value, as a feud, with the possibility that Miscavige&Rathbun have enough mutual blackmail on each other to maintain a shared silence on certain details of certain topics.

    Something is odd about the treatment that the CofS' number one enemy, the person at the top of the $cientology enemies list, is receiving. However, I'd prefer to wait and see.

    Here's an interesting comment from Jesse Prince's blog from a few months ago:

    "Shortly after that March conference in Hamburg, I reluctantly started reading Marty's blog 'Moving on up A Little Higher'. I was reluctant because I had disassociated myself from any concern regarding the Scientology world, along with any it’s influences, good or bad.

    "At first I was only interested in reading about how Marty and Mike Rinder were being harassed and persecuted by Scientology Private Investigators. It was just awful to read how those mean P.I's were trying every trick in the book in an effort to cause Mike and Marty to violate their integrity. With all the Private Investigator activity that Marty and Mike were reporting, in my opinion what they were reporting seemed lame and tame. In my experience with the same activity perpetrated by the Scientology conglomerate legal and intelligence disabler mechanism (Which Marty and Mike were a significant part of), my experiences with Private Investigator activity were far more extreme. Comparatively speaking, it seemed to me that Marty and Mike were having more of a lovers spat [with Miscavige] as opposed to a real showdown."
  20. Pooks


    ^^^^ In my opinion, this is the right way to handle the cult craziness. Unlike Marty who gets into a crazy "games condition" with DM and the cult, Marc does the right thing and leads the moonbats to the cops and then walks away. NO drama, just effective handling of sciotards.