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Rathbun saw the light, then was crushed

Discussion in 'L Ron Hubbard' started by Veda, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    The below quote is from 17 August 2014, from Marty Rathbun.

    This was during the brief period when he was no longer covering Hubbard's ass and was sounding pretty sane. Subsequently, sadly and tragically, Scientology Inc. got a hold of him and he was "handled."

    "...Ron educated his followers on the mechanics intentionally used to control and damage the mind and simultaneously employed by him to do precisely that to his followers. It is diabolical in that the followers having been educated by Ron on the techniques would then never guess they would be used on the followers."

    Bingo! :thumbsup:

    Many years ago, I wrote about Hubbard's confidential instructions to Scientologists that they use "aberrative" and "enemy tactics" on Scientology's enemies, and how Hubbard had, also, secretly, used "aberrative" and "enemy tactics" on Scientologists, and how these tactics had been incorporated into the doctrine of Scientology.

    Hubbard would often mention "enemy tactics" and, inevitably, present himself as the opponent of those tactics. This assured Scientologists that Hubbard would never use such tactics on them.

    Perhaps the single most glaring example of this is Hubbard's secret use, on his own followers, of the ideas and methods of his 1955 hoax "Russian textbook on Psycho-politics." The "manual" was presented to Scientologists, as a "public service." They were defenseless when their "greatest friend" began using the same ideas and methods on them.

    As a side note, no where in any of these analyses of the "manual" is the term "brainwashing" used,
    except to reference the 64 page booklet. The analyses are about the booklet not about the topic of "brainwashing" itself.

    The "Russian textbook" had been remarkably described in the mid 1960s in the Australian Anderson Report. 22 years later, an examination of this topic was published in the book, 'Messiah or Madman?' and, 14 years after that, an extensive examination was published in the e-book 'Brainwashing Manual Parallels'. Yet, the original piece in the mid 1960s Anderson Report stands out as an example of early and extraordinary insight. (And, by the way, it wasn't by Anderson, but by an unnamed contributor, whose contribution, Anderson, to his credit, recognized.)

    One of the earliest to recognize this pattern by Hubbard was Volney Mathison.


    In 1954 Mathison wrote, of Hubbard:

    "First, he denounces and exposes... Then he uses the very power he has denounced..."

    From day one, Hubbard used "enemy tactics" and "aberrative" behavior patterns on unsuspecting Scientologists, yet Scientologists knew that he'd never do such a thing to them, since, after all, he'd described it to them in a lecture, etc., as being something that the bad guys would do, and he was the ultimate good guy.

    In his confidential writings, Hubbard taught that Scientology's enemies should be subjected to "enemy tactics," and to the various mechanisms of the mind (and "reactive mind"), and Hubbard, in writings and lectures, would sometimes describe these and, on a few occasions, even warn the Scientologists that some evil force (not him of course, but the communists, Nazis, psychiatrists, the "12 bankers," etc.) could use Scientology to enslave - such is "the power the tech," etc.

    Scientologists are fond of quoting these warnings. This, while remaining subject to the manipulative ideas and methods woven into Scientology by its founder.

    L. Ron Hubbard described himself as "Mankind's Greatest Friend," etc., so his writings and comments about "aberrative mechanisms" and "enemy tactics" never came across as a warning about himself. If anything, it made others more inclined to trust him.

    For example, in Dianetics, what's "aberrative"? Something that equates to "survival." The "held down 7s" are "aberrative" because they're identified with the person's survival. "Survival," as a "mechanism" becomes "aberrative."

    Even in 1950, Dianetics was presented as being a "race with the atomic bomb." The message was plain enough: Dianetics = Survival. No Dianetics = Doom.

    And this continued into Scientology. One of many examples: In 1956, Hubbard wrote, "With Man now equipped with weapons sufficient to destroy all Mankind and Earth... The primary race on Earth is... the one being run between Scientology and the atomic bomb."

    How many Scientologists read Hubbard's descriptions of Dianetics and Scientology as essential for Mankind's "Survival!" - and their own "Survival" - and thought, "Oh, Ron's using the 'Survival mechanism' to manipulate me" ?

    Another example from 1950 Dianetics is the "ally computation." Someone comes out of the blue and helps another person, helps the other person in some way or other. The "help" could be indifferently offered, or insincerely offered, but if the needy person regards it as aiding in his "Survival!" (or well being, or the alleviation of pain or the attainment of pleasure or relief), then (so the theory goes) the "ally" mechanism is in place and in effect. For example, an uncle, who may not be a particularly nice fellow, gets his little nephew a glass of water when that nephew is sick in bed and thirsty. The uncle (in the mind of the little nephew) becomes an "ally," and the uncle become identified with "Survival!"

    Now, who would have thought that "Mankind's Greatest Friend," on whom the "Survival!" of Mankind, and the "Survival!" of each person (Scientologists, through Ron's "Bridge") depended, would use the "ally computation" and the "Survival mechanism" in order to deceive, manipulate, and exploit? Nah, that could never happen.

    However, it did happen, and not only years later, but sometimes the same day, or previous to Hubbard mentioning a deceptive, manipulative or destructive mechanism or tactic.

    But it was disguised, and so wasn't recognized. Hubbard's words about the race between Dianetics or/and Scientology and the atomic bomb were regarded by Scientologists as warnings by their, and Mankind's, greatest "ally," L. Ron Hubbard.

    Who amongst Scientologists suspected?

    Yet, Hubbard's words about "the race between Scientology and the atomic bomb" - from 1956 - occurred less than a year after Hubbard had published, and distributed, his fake "Russian Psychopolitics textbook" (which of course denounced Dianetics), a "textbook" that - amongst a few references to psychiatrists practicing lurid sex with their (unconscious) patients, "Pain-Drug-Hypnosis," shock treatment, lobotomies, etc. - was a compendium of "enemy ('Russian Communist') ideas and methods" for "asserting and maintaining dominion over thoughts and loyalties" through more practical non-medical means.

    From Hubbard's "Russian Textbook":

    "The failure of Psychopolitics might well bring about the atomic bombing of the Motherland. The psychopolitical operative must succeed for his success means world peace... The end thoroughly justifies the means."

    Even "Survival!" - used to manipulate - was mentioned in the fake "Russian Textbook":

    "It is pointed out in many early Russian writings that this is a survival mechanism. It [the "Survival!" mechanism] has already been well and thoroughly used in the survival of Communism."

    Hubbard's 1955 "Russian Textbook" was loaded with manipulative and exploitative ideas and practices, many of which were being used on Scientologists themselves - used on them by their "Greatest Friend" and ally, L. Ron Hubbard - ideas and practices which were incorporated, by Hubbard, into Scientology doctrine and practice.

    Yet, who suspected? Yet, it was right there. And because it was right there it was unthinkable.

    Yes, it was in plain sight and hidden at the same time.


    Deep down in the back of Marty Rathbun's mind he knows the truth.

    Maybe someday he'll be able to speak freely, and can share it with us again.​
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  2. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes Hubbard used both the carrot and the stick.

    Now the carrot can be aligned with the positive aspirations such that I had to enhance the well being of being of my fellow man as I ascertained was desirable and needed per what I saw from my travels throughout Europe as well as my local community. The suffering needed to be resolved and also the injustices from our cultures.

    However, the other 'carrot Hubbard was very willing to manipulate were the negative sociopathic characteristics within individuals and use that for his aggrandizement and goal to make all men his elemental slaves.

    Then of course the multi-faceted stick....the use of the gamut of fears.

    As regards "
    "Yet, who suspected? Yet, it was right there. And because it was right there it was unthinkable.
    Yes, it was in plain sight and hidden at the same time."

    I did suspect it and definitely saw it as a possibility and even voiced it to a fellow Scientologist at that time. Had I known at that time that the grade chart levels were not actually being attained by those who had gone before me and had claimed and espoused directly to me the verity of greatly enhanced awareness, knowledge and abilities I would have walked away at that point.

    The environ had been polluted. And being naive and not realizing that it was my inherent ability and not the tools Hubbard offered which gave the gains I had, I thought it worth giving it a try.... and I could always pull out if the bridge didn't prove to be valid.

    As regards Marty and so many others, they are to greater or lesser degrees mired in the mud of it all...I suppose we can only hope the light may someday dry out the poisonous fluid of deception and a crack with appear for them to rise again and see and live in a brighter more nourishing world. There is no question psychopathy is unfortunately an all too common fallibility of human nature.
    Operating DB and Veda like this.
  3. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    Yep, and before Volney Dr J A Winter was right on the ball in his report in which he described L Ron Hubbard's influence on the nascent organised criminal group that became Scientology as "totalitarian"

    a doctors report a winter.png
  4. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    That about sums it up. That's where the cognitive dissonance comes from in Scientology. "I'm being abused", but Ron says "Scientologists are the most ethical beings on the planet", and the ethics officer says "It's just bank" and the course Sup says "it's just MUs", and my ED says "stop ser faccing" so I mustn't be being abused. I'm the bad one.
    Infinite, Veda and Leland like this.
  5. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    OMG ESMB is finally back doing what it should be doing. It a social place to hang out with friends who went through the same hell as ourselves, but also to dismantle the walls that held us in for so long. Thanks Emma.
  6. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Dr. Winter was one of the first discerners of patterns and one of the first dissenters.

    He had written the introduction for the first edition of Dianetics, The Modern Science of Mental Health in 1950. In 1951, he wrote Dianetics, A Doctor's Report in which he noted:

    "There was a difference between the ideals inherent in the Dianetic hypothesis and the actions of the Foundation in its ostensible efforts to carry out these ideals. The ideals, as I saw them, included non-authoritarianism and a flexibility of approach. The ideals... continued to be given lip-service, but I could see a definite disparity between ideals and actualities."​

    John Campbell was the editor of Astounding Science Fiction magazine in which Dianetics made its debut.


    By 1951, he also had noticed a pattern, and was one of the first to use the word "cult" with regard to what Hubbard was doing:

    "In a healthy and growing science, there are many men who are recognized as being competent in the field, and no one man dominates the work... to the extent that Dianetics is dependent on one man, it is a cult."​

    Eight years later, Hubbard wrote about Dr. Winter in his 1959 'HCO Manual of Justice [Bracketed material has been added]:

    "People attack Scientology; I never forget it, I always even the score... Dianetics and Scientology are self-protecting sciences. If one attacks them one attacks all the know-how of the mind. It caves in the bank. It's gruesome sometimes. At this instance there are men hiding in terror on Earth because they found out what they were attacking. There are men dead because they attacked us - for instance Dr. Joe Winter [wrote Introduction to 'DMSMH', and the book, 'A Doctor's Report on Dianetics' with an Introduction by Fritz Perls]. He simply realized what he did and died. There are men bankrupt because they attacked us - Purcell, Ridgeway, Ceppos."

    But Hubbard wasn't done with former 'DMSMH' publisher Arthur Ceppos, and made another reference to the publisher - and also a reference to 2nd wife Sara - in a 1969 "Scientology Intelligence Tech" issue, 'Intelligence Actions - Covert Intelligence Data Collection [All parenthetical material is from the original]:

    "The objective of the enemy is to discredit... Their first blast was from the San Francisco papers, Sept. 1950, quoting the publisher (of Book One) Ceppos being critical of me (he was a communist) followed by the LA papers, pushed then by Sara Komkovadamanov (alias Northrup) 'divorce' actions, followed by attempted kidnapping of myself. Other details were pushed into it including the murder of four and so on. This was a full complete covert operation. At the back of it was Miles Hollister (psychology student), Sara Komkovadamanov (housekeeper at the place nuclear physicists stayed near Caltech), Gene Benton and his wife - president of the Young Communists League... This was a full war against Dianetics."

    While providing humanitarian service to all Mankind, Scientologists were told, Hubbard was continually fending off attacks from wogs, SPs, psychs, commies, and the 12 bankers. Apparently, Hubbard even believed that he had been attacked by orders of John F. Kennedy.

    In the early 1960s, Hubbard had come to regard John F. Kennedy as an enemy. He blamed Kennedy for the American FDA/e-meter troubles and referenced his assassination of 28 months earlier in the broadly publicized 1966 PR piece, 'What is Greatness?'.

    'What is Greatness?', meant for a broad "wog" audience, extolled "love," and was published concurrently with the (non-remimeo/later 'confidential') 'Fair Game Law'-applying Guardian's Office having been quietly established. Even in this PR piece, Hubbard couldn't resist gloating over the assassination of John F. Kennedy:

    "Were you to approach many ruling heads of state in the world and offer to set them free (as only a Scientologist can) they would go berserk, cry up their private police and generally cause unpleasantness. Indeed, one did - he was later assassinated by no desire of ours but because of the incompetence of his own followers about him. He could have tried to use Scientology. Instead, he promptly tried to shoot it down by ordering raids and various berserk actions on Scientology organizations. That he was then shot had nothing to do with us, but only demonstrated how incompetent and how mortal he really was."

    The slick video version of 'What is Greatness?' omits Hubbard's gloating:

  7. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Then Veda Opines:
    Your narrative here is your own, Veda.

    It is not anyone else's.

    It is especially not Marty's narrative, whose internal epistemology you presume to know.

    And which I have never claimed.

    You are actually making truth claims here only because they correspond to your own stuck Anti-Scientology narrative.

    You describe the "second phase" as Marty 'simply being honest'.

    This is a widescreen billboard of your own solipsistic worldview.

    Your reasoning is cracked. And as an Ex-AntiScientologist, I am sick of it.

    People evolve away from your self-destructive anticult narrative. They integrate their own experiences into a more constructive and TRUE worldview for themselves. You are fighting some kind of self-destructive anti-scientology self-war with yourself that no one else should be sucked into.

    I believe that Exes all over the world should tell you, and your self-destructive solipsistic hysteria, to <deleted>

    And I say that with 15 years experience as an anti-Scientologist.


    We joined minority religions for our own reasons. And we quit them for the same.

    Your self destructive ideas have nothing to do with the multitude of Exes who had the courage to go after their own minority spiritual and religious pursuits for their own reasons - and who received their own spiritual and religious benefits for doing so.

    Really Veda - <deleted>.

    Is that a clear enough answer for you?
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2019
  8. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Well that certainly hit a nerve, but you didn't answer the question.

    To illustrate the change that Marty went through, an examination of similar changes by his then pal, Mike Rinder, would be helpful.

    For example... Some of Mike Rinder's views on Hubbard, from December 2012:

    "He didn't know."

    Not sure where you get your information from that LRH approved operations against Paulette Cooper or Gabe Cazares? Or are you asserting this based on the logic of “it was his organization so therefore he knew”?​

    Clearly you didn't know Mary Sue Hubbard. If you had you would understand how silly this is. He is the LAST person on earth she would tell about illegal actions. Your assumptions are just that, and certainly not based on anything other than “Most dogs are brown. He has a dog. Therefore his dog is brown.” The outpoint in your conclusion is “assume similarities are not similar.”​

    Yeah, that’s Tonja Burden. Who filed a civil case trying to collect money. There was TONS of shredding done in the paranoia to eradicate anything that gave ANY connection between LRH and the GO. It was nuts and unreal. But I do not believe ANY documents ever indicated any connection between LRH and an “operative” doing some illegal act.​

    But this is a debate that is pointless continuing. It’s unprovable either way. And no matter what I say, it won’t satisfy those who wish to believe otherwise.​


    Then, from March 2014 (Phase two):

    "He knew."

    < snip >

    Just for starters, DM most certainly was Action Chief CMO Int. For MANY years. It was where he gained the trust of LRH and LRH started calling him “Misc” and addressing dispatches to him that way. One of the few people that LRH addressed on dispatches with cc’s to their nickname. Miscavige was NOT Mission IC of “Special Project”, Terri Gamboa was. Miscavige was “Special Pjt Ops” (as in Mission Operator).

    Ron absolutely abolished the GO. The Exec Strata was formed and the issues written about it before the formation of OSA. I had personal conversations with LRH about the disbandment of the GO and his desire to see it eradicated entirely as it had become a liability. You do not think that the GO was disbanded without his knowledge and Guardian PL canceled etc etc etc. Where are the docs? They don’t exist, remember, LRH was trying to avoid being connected in any way to the actions of the GO or Mary Sue, he was an unindicted co-conspirator.

    Nothing was in writing. And though he had expressed a LOT of disgust about the GO during the “Confront of Evil” period and the formation of the Office of Evaluation and Execution, where it came up routinely that GO staff were employing org staff in their personal business, the reason for disbanding the GO was that they were not protecting him from criminal and civil liability. He considered they had betrayed him (inclusive of Mary Sue).

    The idea that he knew nothing about Snow White and the illegal acts that were ongoing is tantamount to saying L. Ron Hubbard was blind, unaware and incapable of spotting an outpoint. That was NOT the case. He was briefed by Mary Sue every single day at lunch during the heyday of the GO Ops — in detail. If she didnt tell him “Joe Blow infiltrated the IRS and got documents” she told him what they knew (if you don’t believe he expected to be briefed about everything the GO was doing, then you also give him less credit than he deserved, he was not one not to be curious) and he would have figured it out. Believe me, the programs and actions written to implement Snow White WERE know[n] and authorized all the way to the top.

    LRH directed exactly what was to be done at the Mission Holders Conference in SFO following the one in Clearwater. The whole thing was recorded so it could be sent to him. He listened to it, sent Miscavige and the others commendations and ordered that the entire transcript be published.

    The only explanation for the change was a change in what Mike Rinder was willing to say. In the top quote he's covering for Ron Hubbard. In the bottom quote he's not covering for Ron Hubbard.

    That's a change, a major change, and a change in the right direction.

    Marty Rathbun, at the time, was going through similar positive changes.

    Alanzo, does this help in your understanding?
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
    Jenyfurrr, Type4_PTS and Infinite like this.
  9. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I've included the initial post, as you omitted it, and its question:

    To which phase were you referring when you called Marty "one of the most effective critics of the Church of Scientology ever"?

    Your irrational outburst aside, I would like to know the answer.

    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
    Type4_PTS likes this.
  10. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I watched all these changes in both Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder, right along with you.

    I continually asked both Mike and Marty, over 11 years, to reveal resources and techniques of OSA that would help safeguard Ex-Scientology critics against fair-game, and to reveal any fair-game resources and techniques being against used against them in the past and in present time.

    They were both colossally non-compliant with my queries.

    I documented that all on my blog.

    And now I'm some kind of OSA Agent to you.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  11. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    Alan, why do you think they should answer to you? Marty was Mr Knowbest from the gitgo. Your puny armadillo stature as most blatherous poster on ESMB I'm sure held no weight nor your high-ranking staff positions held while in.

    Brings to mind Leah asking about where was Shelly at the Cruise/Holmes wedding and the response -- you don't have the f'n rank.

    Is it being ignored that so ruffles your feathers?

    From what I read on your blog of late you seem to be in the Marty camp. That is the Marty of 2017-18 - the backstabber of the critics of co$, the man who stars in videos that OSA uses on their critic hate-site. Those videos are chock full of Marty lies - I haven't heard you call him out on them. No, you've joined him in railing against those that ARE at least doing something to make the public aware of the dangers of our former minor offbeat religion.
    Jenyfurrr and Type4_PTS like this.
  12. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    ESMB is many things to so many people. For me where it shines the brightest is cult recovery dismantling Elcon's mind fuck. This thread's OP.being a prime example. ESMB is unique in that regard due the large community of people that have gone through something so appalling yet still they can rise up sharing their experiences offering insights post-cult.

    ESMB has taken some twists and turns, some I didn't like, however there's no denying that this place has been a haven and refuge for so many Ex's. That's a fact everyone should be proud of that contributed here especially those with the courage to share their stories giving clarity to what happened to us as well as helping your fellow Ex's find their way out of Elcon's foggy cult maze.

    Sorry if my post went a little off-topic.
    Jenyfurrr, Infinite and Veda like this.
  13. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Not for me, Free Being Me.

  14. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    So you don't want to answer the question. Fine.


    John Campbell and L. Ron Hubbard at 666 East Avenue in Bay Head, New Jersey.

    During March of 1951, John Campbell ended his association with the Dianetics organization.
    He wrote:

    "In a healthy and growing science, there are many men who are recognized as being competent in the field, and no one man dominates the work... to the extent that Dianetics is dependent on one man, it is a cult..."

    Giant photo, applauded daily
    during Scientology's period of greatest expansion,
    during which Hubbard introduced most of his
    devious and abusive mind-control ideas and methods.
    Yes, Scientology was and is a cult, and has been one for a long time.


    The ceremony at the 666 house
    when it was officially designated as a museum and shrine in 2014.



    "I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form...
    That goal is a read goal as far as I am concerned...
    In a hundred years Roosevelt will have been forgotten - which gives some idea
    of the magnitude of my attempt."

    L. Ron Hubbard, from a 1938 letter, in the wake of having written the unpublished manuscript 'Excalibur', which was to be the foundation for his envisioned psychological and political movement.

    Jenyfurrr and Infinite like this.
  15. AD1950

    AD1950 Patron

    The language of this "1969 issue" strongly resembles that found in LRH's letter to the Department of Justice of May 14, 1951.

    Additional background on LRH's actions during 1951 will appear soon, at