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Discussion in 'Legal and Government Actions Involving Scientology' started by Free to shine, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    The game of wits has begun...
  2. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    I watched the Documentary - "My Scientology Movie" and thought it was EXCELLENT. I think Louis Theroux was very clever to call Marty out on in his own bad behavior while serving as the #1 guy that Kept Scientology Scamming...

    Marty has committed crimes when he was in the cult and he seemed to be proud of his position in the documentary...and he admitted he was UNEMPLOYABLE...he had a bit of a melt down about how Scientology was harassing him and making his life miserable...and Theroux had no sympathy for him. He put it in the Documentary - which may have set Marty settle with the cult and be done with it. He admitted he can't get work....*very common side effect of high ranking officials who served the cult for many years.

    Marty Rathbun did a lot of dirty deeds whilst in the cult and has never really come clean....Louis called him on the carpet in the Documentary and kept his TR's IN!

    I do believe that Marty is not stupid and has negotiated a deal where he and his attorney's get paid and they all are faking this entire charade.

    My guess - the case will quietly fade away.

    If I am wrong - I will be very surprized.

    What tech is Marty using Terrill Park? Just curious what you think is going on using your "science of knowing how to not know":coolwink::wink2::p
  3. skep

    skep Patron with Honors

    Let's deal with the facts and not speculate.

    I was surprised that Marty is included in the attorney filings, as it was my impression that only Monique was their client. Perhaps Marty had to sign something because they were married that included him in the liability of payment. But now I am speculating.

    There is some very interesting details they are asking for, and reading through the list, I can't help but think that they already know the answers to at least some of the list. That could set Marty up for perjury, if that is the case.

    Also interesting is that the Rathbun's full address and phone numbers are now part of the public record. As such, when one looks at the picture on Google Maps of the Rathbun house, it looks suspicioulsy like someone is burying $$$ in the front yard. Could that be Marty? Curious minds need to know. :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2017
  4. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    . . .
    Coast Guard sighting of Marty Rathbun traveling at high speed
    in the direction of Guadeloupe (Caribbean French island), where
    Debbie Cook "went to the mattresses" until the controversy and
    heat blew over. He was in international waters and not boarded.


  5. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Note that When Ray Jefferys took on Debbie Cooks case
    she detailed in open court and filmed by ABC how she was
    treated in the Hole and how DM made someone clean a bathroom
    floor by licking it.

    Explain how that is part of the Cults show?

    Also note that the cult immediately terminated their
    lawsuit after the first day of Debbie's testimony.
  6. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron certainly will be interesting.
  7. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    When I was in the Sea Org it was definitely a factor to anyone thinking of leaving that it could be difficult starting over on the outside given that what we were taught and much of what we did was not marketable on a wog resume. However, I do not recall this being overtly used as a tactic to convince people to stay. That may just be me, and other people may have observed it. But it does seem from what I've read that after 1986 this devolved into a routine part of the strategy to salvage a crew member who wanted to leave. I did find it curious to see Marty placing such strong emphasis on this given that he must have known it was SOP Church head fuckery.

    The reality for me is that for several years it was very difficult to rebuild after leaving but absolutely everything was much better and easier than being in the Sea Org and my life has continually improved ever since.

    And, I have not told many people that I am an ex or what I did as a Scientologist but everyone I have told has been very supportive knowing I was no longer a Scientologist.
  8. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    While this is an interesting move for Ray & team, I'm not sure it will produce anything of value except maybe Marty's income stream.

    First, I see these motions all the time and unless Ray & team are going to spend money trying to verify each document's content (time consuming and expensive, you'd have to subpoena the IRS and/or any other income source provided), there's nothing stopping Ratty bun from providing intentionally vague or even falsified documents. Most of what I see is never authenticated by the issuing source due to the expense in fighting motions to compel and sending out subpoenas and/or getting depos. If Ray does all of this work and gets the judge to agree (and lets hope Ray has some strong case law on his side), then we will see fireworks.

    Second, my speculation is that Ratty bun was provided a retro qualified pension, which is protected from liens or jgmts. The problem here is that if they paid him off in a pension, then they would have to have to do the same for all 'employees' of the same class. So that would mean that Rinder or anyone high up that received a salary is eligible too. The cult runs the risk of getting a nice Dept of Labor audit with hefty fines, but they could pay those without a blink if they had to.

    So while this is an exciting move of Ray's part, I doubt it will provide the smoking gun. Ratty is already in the hole to them for likely millions of dollars, so it's a matter of ROI for Ray on how he's going to pursue this.
  9. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    This is from Tony's blog.
    would 5. include the use of another persons credit card?
  10. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    WoW! Explosive!

    Aug. 29

    I wonder who the Rathbun's will hire as legal representation?

    Also looks like Ray and Team taking on the Cult of Scientology again!

  11. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    I suspect this is a move by Ray to recover some of his expenses by the cult. It is likely that Ratty doesn't have a one lump sum he could give to Ray as a pension is paid out on a scheduled basis.

    If Ratty gets counsel, it will likely be somehow backed by the cult and unless Miscraycray is that stupid and is willing to open up more cans of worms regarding Ratty, then Ratty's counsel will likely settle somehow. Not sure how that will happen unless the cult is joined through an impleader.
  12. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    The COS (Crimewave of Scn ) would have a win-win situation in all this. If Marty gets reamed legally, he either:

    1) will have to forfeit all proceeds of any settlement to the law firm.

    2) Plus penalties​

    This would mean that:

    --if he has taken consideration, he loses it and more

    --if he hasn't taken consideration (yet) he won't be able to take
    it after this. ​

    For the COS, its a huge 4th dynamic win too!

    --COS has no liability whatsoever to pay attorneys anything

    --if Rathbun suddenly can't collect, they got the settlement they wanted and it didn't cost them anything​

    --on top of all that, Rathbun is nuked, which is what the game was all about anyways. ​

    If this was a movie, I would write a final scene where Ron comes back from the dead and speaks to the audience in his mellifluous baritone "serenity voice":

    "And so my dear friends, as I have assured you all
    along--and my promise was not made lightly--Scientology
    is the only game in the universe where everyone wins!
    And to my dearest loyal officers (Dave & Marty), kindly
    knock it off because you are making Scientology and
    me look like some kind of total freak mental case
    even more than people already think! "

  13. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    From a lawyer's perspective, gathering and verifying docs is expensive and time-consuming. From an accounting perspective, not so much, since the work itself is all about the details. I hope they hire accountants for this.

    It starts with organizing and listing the income sources and grouping expenses. From there, a person can see the most prevalent source(s) of income or spending. When oddball sources become large as a group, those sources also become questionable, as well as unreasonable expenditures against income. People also have habits, they prefer a certain credit card or bank, or do their transfers at certain times of the week or month. Certain dates then correspond with other dates. Payment is received, then it's transferred or spent, is the usual way. When a purchase is made that does not correspond with payment received, it's another red flag. Where did the money come from?

    Do the receipts match the expenses? Receipts have to be originals or an acceptable facsimile in an audit. Copies aren't allowed. If they are fresh, they can often be verified by telephone. Businesses don't like when someone makes up bogus receipts with their name, it means problems of their own with the IRS later, so if they can verify a receipt, they usually will, and they don't need a subpeona, they do it gladly, if you provide the information and all they have to say is valid or not. The US cash limit is a big help here, too.

    Marty's credit card and bank records would need to match up with his income and expenses. Those records also provide partial credit card vendor authorization numbers. Again, vendors are pretty cooperative with yes or no verifications when others claim they made a sale they didn't. It's fraud to them, too, and hurts them.

    Then there are all Marty's former financial supporters who he turned against, who will probably cooperate.

    But an audit is about seeing and recognizing patterns and excesses. Using a variety of credit cards is a pattern, too, that points to something being hidden. A regular worker is a pattern, but add up his annual pay. Is it reasonable, not just by itself, but combined with other expenditures and with average pay or work to complete that sort of job on that size property? A gardener with a pattern of payments that continues who should be seasonal but then receives a payment in freezing temps in February is a red flag. 'Oh, he has a snow plow, too.' Hmm. But he isn't certified for any of the work, doesn't own a snow plow and doesn't have a listed business or any other clients. Would he like to cooperate and provide the information or rather be reported to the IRS for tax evasion? Then the auditor might find out that he only received 1/2 that amount, or was only paid in cash and those transfers didn't even go to his account, but somewhere else. It wan't even his vendor number.

    That's the sort of things good auditors do. You'd be surprised how cooperative most people and business can be. By the time a good auditor finishes with the original records, fraud has already been proven for some fair-sized tuna, and there are only a few places to subpoena to catch the whale.

    Auditing is an art form. I used to love it.
  14. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    I don't doubt that Scientologists would do ANYTHING if they thought they could get away with it.

    But, for Jeffreys and his law firm to play out a ruse for the public, I don't see how that is possible. What possible motivation would he have, considering that:

    -- His reputation and the firm's reputation would be destroyed if it ever came to light. And with that, he would be forfeiting all of his and his firm's future income.

    --Thus the settlement amount (paid to Jeffrey's firm) would have to be mega-gargantuan to balance the risk factor of the loss of his firm, his income and even perhaps his license.

    --If the COS was prepared to make him some mega-offer, why wouldn't they just settle normally as part of the lawsuit, and keep it confidential, the same way all the COS's other settlements/payoffs are done?

    The part that is most intriguing in this (to me at least) is that the COS could totally destroy Rathbun by taking away his payoff AND ruining his life, marriage and ability to gain employment. I don't think the COS is that smart, but it would make good material for a convoluted mystery novel.
  15. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    "Used to love it".....there's a story there!

    I agree with your assessment of forensic accounting as a method of document verification, but I do not expect Ratty to be forthright and honest about any document he produces and forensic accounting also costs money unless Ray arranges otherwise. I've just seen it happen where the respondent files fake or fraudulent documents or omits great portions of requested documents. Unless you are dealing with a savvy corporate respondent, most individuals provide maybe 25% of what they should supply, then it is a mess of meet & confer (like Ratty would actually follow through on that) and motions to compel, etc.

    My point is that I don't know how much Ray is willing to sink into an existing sunk loss. He may suspect that Ratty will get cult counsel and then come up with some confidential settlement. This action is a warning shot to Ratty.
  16. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Do you also post as "Under The Radar" on The Bunker? I ask because he/she posted something equally as ridiculous as what you've posted here. I'm being kinder to you than I was to this UTR character. I guess I'm flat on ridiculousness now. Lol...
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  17. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Everything went blank after "mellifluous".
  18. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Well, naming Marty as a party to the lawsuit would be normal practice in a case involving FRAUD or any scenario where there was a "fraudulent transfer of assets" from one party to another in order to avoid collections/obligations.

    There is abundant law about "piercing the corporate veil" and "alter-ego" that gives the legal means by which to go after defendants who think the can outsmart the system. Often, skilled scammers still do avoid paying up what they owe, but once they get their tail caught in the legal system (especially when the plaintive is a law firm that has been shafted!!!!) it's a very costly affair.

    It wouldn't make any difference if Mosey was the original party bringing the lawsuit, if the obligation to pay Jeffrey's law firm was defaulted on in any way, with and by means of other parties--like Marty himself.

    Fascinating to consider that it is even possible that Rathbun DID NOT get paid, which would make one wonder WTF he is doing making those videos. LOL.

    Scientology: It doesn't have to make sense. Because it's Scientology.
  19. Gib

    Gib Crusader

  20. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    My guess: That is not something that even a brain-dead cult like Scientology would want to do. It would be the last thing in the world they would desire--to tie themselves in at any level with a plot trying to orchestrate shafting the plaintive's law firm.

    How would that possibly benefit them? And, if caught, the downside is total destruction of their business and professional careers. Not a good risk/reward ratio, right?

    As mentioned before, if the COS had any motivation to ensure that plaintive's firm got compensated, why wouldn't they just settle with Rathbun as part of the lawsuit. It's Rathbun's obligation, not theirs.

    The only scenario where someone would consider that is if THEY COULD NOT SETTLE WITH RATHBUN BECAUSE THE 40% (or whatever contingency fee) BEING PAID TO JEFFREY'S FIRM WAS A DEAL BREAKER FOR MARTY. Meaning, he wouldn't sign off on the deal because after the 40% deduction, he didn't feel he was getting enough. The likelihood that that ever happened is about the same likelihood that Ron is coming back, LOL.