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Discussion in 'Legal and Government Actions Involving Scientology' started by Free to shine, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. skep

    skep Patron with Honors

    I went back and took a look. I stand corrected. Now I may reconsider some of my thoughts, but will wait for other facts to come out.
  2. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Yeah, I mean all any of us can do is speculate. It's a very fluid situation. It will get interesting in the coming months, that's for sure.
  3. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    It is deliciious.:yes:
  4. IWantOffThisTrain

    IWantOffThisTrain Eternal Optimist

    I agree 100% with everything you have said but what really made day was your final sentence, very few people understand that let alone respect it. I am so used to hearing "auditing" as it refers to cos that it was almost shocking to see it "audit" being used in the financial sense, most likely just because of the forum. In any case it reminds me of what I tell my kids when they laugh at my horrible math skills
    ...Accounting isnt about "numbers" its what you do with those numbers and there is always a trail that, no matter how carefully someone is to cover the trail, if the tracker is good they will always find it. I have a feeling Jeffries will have some pretty good people on this.

    This is potentially bigger than the Rathbuns, if Jeffries & Co. can find a direct link to COS it could trigger an IRS audit and again no matter how careful they tried to cover their tracks, if the IRS thinks they may be able to nail cos they WILL, even if just to get back at them for the shit they pulled before. This could actually lead to loosing tax exemption! Its not a slam dunk but it will be fun to watch!!
  5. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Yes, it will! Just after Tony Ortega published todays story popcorn futures took a dramatic turn upwards:

    Click to Enlarge:
    popcorn futures.PNG
  6. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    I said before that Leah Remini = Sansa Stark, Mike Rinder = Littlefinger, and the IRS is a pack of hounds that hadn't been fed in seven days.

    Jon Snow just showed up in the form of Ray Jeffrey.

    Winter is coming, Davey. Winter is coming.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
  7. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    And Ray Jeffrey (note the may very well be acting in part knowing that this could lead to getting the IRS's attention. Just doing high octane speculation based on the very real indication that he has come to strongly dislike the cult over the last several years. He's appalled at what they've always gotten away with legally. He wants to see them get the justice they deserve.
  8. anonomog

    anonomog Gold Meritorious Patron

    I have cotton-wool-flu brain that isn't computing well. Please explain to me how it could get linked to the IRS.
  9. Did Marty do work for the Church as a religious activity? If so then maybe it wouldn't be taxable income in an attempt to skate around the IRS. I don't know how or if that matters in a pension agreement. I think the case likely revolves around the lawyers that represented them are just looking to be made whole.
  10. IWantOffThisTrain

    IWantOffThisTrain Eternal Optimist

    If he can find a link that shows Church funds being used in a way that isnt considered proper for the tax exempt status that would give the IRS a legitimate reason to go deeper. They would not be acting on speculation nor could the church cry "religious prosecution" to try and stop an massive audit since there would be proof of misappropriation of funds. If the amounts of money is significant it could actually lead to the the church loosing its current status, they wouldn't like it but they could easily structure things so going forward they would pay minimal taxes anyway. The real fear for the church is if they loose their status retroactively because they would be paying taxes (and fines, interest etc) on everything, they wouldn't be able reclass or reroute money. They would could owe billions even if they only went back 10 years.
  11. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Just wishful thinking really. :whistling:

    Which doesn't tend to compute well. :no:
  12. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Understood, but there's another way to look at lawyers.

    Let's illustrate by changing the paradigm.

    Assume that a serial murder (already convicted, in prison for life) has need of immediate medical care. And the prison sends them to the local emergency room any diagnosis and/or life-saving treatment.

    That emergency room physician would not be delivering his professional services based on anything related to the patient's prior crimes---only being concerned about his health.

    Virtually any doctor would take that patient, wouldn't they, without any other ethical concerns than delivering the best medical outcome possible.

    I agree, it's a very quirky and idiosyncratic situation for professional (e.g. lawyer, doctor, car mechanic, plumber, gardener, et al) to bump into. But, once they allow themselves to "have concerns" about the suitability of their customers, they are probably doomed to fail professionally. Because, how much due diligence is ever enough when interviewing prospective clientele?

    Mr. Jones, I know you just want me to fix your backed
    up toilet, but before I can take you as a client I need to
    know any earlier similar times you did something really shitty. ​

    I dunno, I am just glad I'm not a lawyer needing to pay bills by representing dangerous scum bags--employing all manner of misdirection, sophistry & legal legerdemain in order to free a monster--only to have them again begin defrauding, terrorizing and/or killing more victims.
  13. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    I don't know that "witness tampering" comes into this.

    Because, it's not a criminal trial being prosecuted by the state (e.g. "The People vs_________")

    It's a civil action originated by an individual, the plaintiff (Mosey). She is the one that filed a lawsuit. She always maintains full discretion to advance her case, settle her case or abandon it.

    There was no trial, no cross-examination, no "witnesses" technically. All that happened so far was a lot of legal, jurisdictional and procedural wrangling. And any declaration submitted by anyone was just that--a declaration. They haven't been cross-examined or impeached in any way. Ergo, the originator of any (written) declarations is just that, a person "declaring" something did or didn't happen. IF THE LAWSUIT IS ABANDONED, then there is no trial and no "witnesses" and any declarations already made are rendered irrelevant.

    Think of it this way. Someone calls 911 to report that they heard a gunshot next door. Before the police arrive, the neighbor (upon being asked "Are you okay?!" over the fence, replies: "Oh yeah, I'm fine, that was just a backfire from my old Chevy. Working on it in the garage forever! LOL")

    Then the police (en route) are advised that it was a false alarm.

    Police turn around and head back to station.

    No harm, no foul.
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  14. anonomog

    anonomog Gold Meritorious Patron

    It would be interesting to find out what actions the Rathuns wanted to take in the case and why the attorneys didn't want to go in that direction.
    Perhaps they wanted to go for a smaller settlement, but as Jeffrey and Co had already sunk more than the total into the case already it wouldn't be financially viable to consider that route. Then what the Rathbuns said about the case would be technically correct just not the whole picture/conversation.
  15. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Apparently the Rathbuns wanted to follow DM's directions in formulating the legal strategy going forward, and then get on with auditing Mosey on her Grades.

    Ray J said "Whaaaaaat? I don't think so homey. I ain't no chump ya know." So Marty had Mosey copy down his best high falutin legaleeze in making Ray wrong and fired him. Lol...
  16. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Well, consider this a moment. The entire purpose of a civil lawsuit is to COLLECT MONEY.

    The commercial venture known as "litigation" is a calculated risk on the part of the plaintiff and/or their attorneys (if working on contingency) that the risk/reward ratio will ultimately prove to be very favorable.

    If the scenario is as you suggest, then the Rathbuns were willing to settle for a smaller number than the lawyers thought viable (for themselves, considering how much they had invested to date). Even in that scenario, all the client had to say was "ACCEPT THAT SMALL NUMBER". And the lawyer would have a legal obligation to communicate that to the defendant(s) (COS, et al).

    The defendants, by abandoning their case in total, would have been doing something entirely CONTRARY to their own purpose; because, they would have eliminated any hope of getting paid anything.

    So, I don't see that scenario making sense.

    Unless the Rathbuns are so unimaginably stupid or wreckless that they would dare attempt to defraud an entire kill-ass law firm, LOL. That's suicide by 1.000 paper [STRIKE]cuts[/STRIKE] courts.

    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  17. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I doubt that the Rathbun's would want to go for a smaller settlement. Their attorney's had CoS and their 22 attorneys on the ropes preparing to inflict major damage. It was a good time to extract a settlement from CoS. Miscavige usually likes to drag these cases on as long as possible but Jeffrey and Co was clearly winning this case, and Miscavige risked being ordered to appear for a deposition should the case keep going forward. Showing up for a deposition is probably on his short list of things he NEVER wants to do.

    Also, if the Rathbun's pushed for a small settlement they'd of screwed themselves pretty bad too. The attorney's would get paid first a fixed percentage plus all their out-of-pocket expenses, which I imagine could have been pretty large.
  18. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    True, but there could be tortious interference with the contract between Mosey and Jeffrey. Committed by Marty. Or Davey, if Jeffrey's really going for the kill shot.

    Edit: I've not actually seen anyone put forth this theory, and maybe tortious interference isn't a thing in Texas. But if I was Jeffrey and wanted to settle old scores, I'd be seriously considering it.
  19. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    I’m not gonna take the time to go find and Link to all the ESMB Posts I’ve put over the last some years regarding DM, Marty or Ray Jeffrey and Jeffry's Debbie, the PI’s and Monique Lawsuits.

    In those Posts there are recurring Themes based upon my personal interactions with DM and Marty “Back in the Days”, my over twenty years of intensive study of the Red & Green “Tech”, over one decade as Staff/SO/Apollo/Flag Crew mostly as an “Exec, Senior Exec and ‘Flag Missionaire’” and—for some of that time, off and on, here and there—in personal observation of, interaction with and service to El Ron, Hisself as an “Aide, Personal Office and Personal Staff.

    To Wit:

    "Having personally known, observed and interacted with DM & Marty—whatever you do in your interactions with DM or Marty—don’t trust them!

    DM’s “Achilles Heel” is that he—same as El Ron—will spend every last dime he has access to/control over to keep from being deposed, cross examined or made to personally appear or answer-up in a US court proceeding.

    Debbie will “settle” before her case ever gets near trial.

    The PI’s will settle before their case ever gets near trial.

    Monique—and let’s be “real”, de facto Marty—will settle before her case ever gets near trial.

    There was OBVIOUSLY some form of “Quid Pro Quo” when Monique (Marty) fired Jeffrey et al and withdrew the Lawsuit.

    Jeffrey amassed a “War Chest” and “took slices off DM’s Pecker” in the Debbie and PI Cases, and DM assuredly had increasingly severe sphincter spasms during the Monique Case.

    Anywhere in Texas, especially Counties like Bexar, is a most dangerous venue for DM, CofS, Scn--and now Monique (Marty)--Cases, and Jeffrey knows that.

    Now, IMHO HTF did DM or Marty think they could Post the “New Marty Canticles” and not have it come back to tear them a new asshole is the “Ultimate Tell”?

    Scn BLINED HUBRIS: of which I was an avid participant in for over two decades of my adult life (mid Sixties or so to mid Eighties or so).

    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  20. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    Thanks, ILove2Lurk. Hoaxie, it was a serious question as I've seen the rumor and thought you may be someone to set me straight (which you did in your lovable Hoaxie way). This pic looks seriously shooped to me. Besides, I looked up the property where Ratty and his wife live, and it looks like they are renting which does not match up to Ratty owning or possessing a penis compensation car like in the photo.

    Thanks all!