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Featured Scientology Breeds Fanaticism

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Gadfly, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Understanding Anybody

    The actions of individual people and groups derive from different motivations. At the lowest end of the spectrum is biological urges such as the desire for food, water, sleep, rest and sex. Nobody really needs to "decide" to want to eat or sleep. These motivations are not based upon decisions or beliefs about anything. At the other end of the spectrum are actions based upon beliefs, ideas, values or ideals. In one sense this is a version of the traditional body-mind dichotomy. You get up and make a sandwich because you are hungry. You get up, make a sign, paint on a slogan, take an early-morning bus to a location forty miles away, and march in protest against something or another. See that difference? The second action is because of the person's beliefs, ideals, values or ideas. When trying to examine actions and behavior, of anybody, it is a good idea to keep that in mind.

    When it comes to understanding WHY people do things, it is often necessary to examine their beliefs. The motivation lies within the set of ideas they have about something. For example, here are some basic beliefs of a Muslim terrorist fanatic:

    1) Allah is the ruler of the world and the Universe; his instructions are Eternal Truth and must be followed exactly.

    2) Allah states that all Muslims must fight a Holy War against Satan; the entire western civilization is ruled and controlled by Satan.

    3) Satan is evil, against all of Allah's Good, and must be destroyed in all of His manifestations.

    4) A Soldier of Allah is guaranteed to go to Heaven, a place of amazing lushness and beauty, where he can eat, drink and have sex with beautiful women for all eternity, IF the Soldier of Allah dies while fighting the Holy War against Satan..

    These ideas, which in this case, are not based on ANYTHING ever observed or experienced, are believed completely, without restrictions or qualifications. The ideas derive from and exist ONLY in a person's mind. They are not based on ANYTHING except what he has read, studied or others have told him. In other words, even though these ideas can NEVER be verified or proven in any form whatsoever, they are accepted and asserted absolutely. The above ideas, when put together in a very fundamentalist, rigid sort of way are what enable a sixteen-year old, wide-eyed Al Q'aeda recruit to tie ten pounds of plastic explosives around his waist and blow up a bus full of Israeli students. It is impossible to understand the boy's behavior UNLESS you understand the ideas and beliefs that underlie his decisions.

    Beliefs must be analyzed for many types of behaviors to be understood. The key aspect of fanatics though is that they accept and assert their ideas completely, without qualification, without tempering, absolutely, and they place their IDEAS on a pedestal, forever failing to question or examine the legitimacy of these ideas. In fact, when actual facts come along and confront them, that are contradictory to or dispute with any of their beliefs, they cannot even see them. Their ideas are accepted and asserted so rigidly and severely, with such force, that they actually perceive the world differently than others. They see a different reality. They truly live in a different world. THAT is why they do what they do. Interestingly, Hubbard explains this quite well in his talks and writings on the subject of the "Fixed Idea". But also, unbeknownst to most Scientologists, Hubbard was busily INSTILLING fresh (Scientologically-based) fixed ideas into your little heads.

    Scientologists exhibit extreme behavior at times, and these behaviors can only be understood by a close examination of 1) their firmly held beliefs, and 2) how these beliefs connect up together and are used to justify certain actions. Simply, the die-hard Scientologist (Sea org member) also lives in a very different world - because they often perceive and experience it differently than most other people. These beliefs are delineated and discusssed in this thread.

    Introduction to Scientology Beliefs

    There are a few basic beliefs held by most Scientologists. But more importantly, these basic beliefs are always firmly held by senior organization staff members. Without understanding these basic beliefs it is impossible to truly grasp the context within which the staff members and public of the Church of Scientology operate. To get a firm hold on just how the Church leaders view reality and subsequently why they do what they do the reader must arrive at a clear understanding of these basic Scientology beliefs. These are the bricks that form the foundation of the entire Scientology edifice.

    Interestingly, these beliefs might even be valid. That is not the point. The point is how they use these ideas to justify some of their more questionable actions. The point is how these ideas open the door to an absolutism and fanaticism of a type not known to most other people.

    Note: It is possible that certain high placed leaders do not actually believe these things, but simply use these beliefs to control those under them. I have no evidence about this one way or another. If this is the case though, then some of their actions are even worse because they are knowingly using the sincere religious beliefs of others to manipulate their behavior. Regardless of what the top leaders believe the staff and public are controlled via these beliefs whether it is intentional manipulation or not. Without firmly holding and asserting these beliefs Scientologists couldn't and wouldn't do some of the things they do such as pay so much money, work such long hours, attack critics so viciously, lie, spread disinformation, and run such a tightly rigid thought-control operation within the Church.

    You can only understand how any group of people behaves when you get to know what makes them tick. What makes them tick is solely determined by their belief system, and especially by their basic beliefs about reality and themselves in relation to this reality. Read an essay on belief systems and how a person's belief system affects his or her perception and experience of reality.

    It should be noted that there is actually nothing "wrong" with many of these Scientology beliefs, though they are a bit severe by many people's standards. The problem with Scientology, and with any group that pushes the envelope of rational behavior, is what they DO WITH THEIR BELIEFS. How do they USE their beliefs to justify behavior that harms others? How are these these beliefs USED to justify suppressing free speech? How are these beliefs USED to justify blatant lying and misrepresentations of facts?

    As an example, many millions of people have believed and practiced Christian beliefs throughout the ages, and most of them never harmed a fly in the name of their religion. But there was that small segment, having exactly the same beliefs, who tortured and murdered because of the severity with which they interpreted their beliefs. The friendly Christian neighbors down the street who are the nicest people one can meet have pretty much the same beliefs as those more rigid Christians who burned witches and tortured heretics. What is it that determines how one or the other ACTS upon their beliefs? How does the fanatic torturer stress the ideas differently, connect them up and give certain ideas exaggerated importance? It is this difference, how the fanatic transforms the same ideas into destructive actions, that must be taken into consideration. The ideas and beliefs are usually not harmful in themselves - it is what the fanatic does with them that makes them harmful.

    A fanatic tends to interpret ideas absolutely and usually is unwilling to mitigate the fundamentalist meanings that permit him to walk the path of severity, harm and destruction of others. Simply, the fanatic justifies his severe ACTIONS through his unwillingness to compromise his rigid ideas. Scientology has a similar fanatical side to it. There is a ruthlessly persistent and dedicatedly determined aspect to Scientology that is utterly unwilling to and incapable of compromise. Part of the problem with Scientology though is that the fanaticism is largely built right into the dogma of Scientology. It is difficult to separate the two. It might be impossible for an "exact and accurate rendition" of Scientology, as the subject materials of L. Ron Hubbard currently exist, to lead to anything other than fanaticism.

    In Scientology, most public and staff members do not harm anybody. Most of them would consider the idea abhorrent. But, as with Christianity, there is the small, secretive, elite section within the Sea Organization that does viciously instigate harm to others as a routine behavior. These activities are successfully kept hidden from or misrepresented to the majority of the not-so-fanatical Scientologists, though granted, most people would consider almost any Scientologist's behavior at least somewhat tinged with some fanaticism after reading through this section and understanding their beliefs. But also, severe restrictions on free speech and free access to information occur throughout the entire Scientology organization as a matter of routine and this is nothing but due to the fanatical side.

    Certain actions of the Church of Scientology are highly questionable. These are described in detail elsewhere. The best way to understand any person's or group's actions is to understand what they believe. It is their ideas, their strictly held opinions, their beliefs held with conviction, that determine their responses to situations and decisions to act. You will better understand WHY they do what they do once you understand what makes them tick - their belief structure.

    In Scientology all beliefs, assertions, agreements AND actions stem from the writings and taped audio lectures of L. Ron Hubbard. An examination of what L. Ron Hubbard instructs along certain lines proves very enlightening. Hubbard left very specific instructions on what to think and believe in all sorts of situations. Hubbard's instructions form the foundation of all beliefs and actions in Scientology. If it's believed, Hubbard said to believe it. If it's studied, Hubbard said to study it. If it's done, Hubbard said to do it. If it's not done, Hubbard said not to do it. Nothing is accidental in Scientology. Everything stems from Hubbard's very exact instructions. That is the FIRST thing the reader needs to understand. Severe control is taken to unimagined new heights by Hubbard in micromanaging every aspect of Scientology reality.

    While Hubbard's information and instructions can often be very helpful for an individual person learning about life, trying to improve life's conditions or becoming more successful, this same information can be used quite destructively and harmfully when used by the organized Church in it's attempt to "win", "expand", "clear the planet", and defeat its real or imagined "enemies". Also, there are specific bodies of information for the self-help aspect of Scientology and separately unique bodies of information, often hidden and confidential from regular members, for dealing with critics, enemies, belief manipulation and opinion molding. The Office of Special Affairs (OSA) is an extremely secretive "intelligence-type" outfit, and it has secretive policies and often conducts very nasty activities, which are very much hidden from the rest of the staff and public.

    The beliefs mentioned throughout the posts here form the basis of the Scientology belief edifice. This examination has no "slant". These are the beliefs most Scientologists accept and assert. Hubbard wrote them clearly. If anyone tells you any different, they are lying (probably for some PR reason). That is what they do. If they deny this or argue that people shouldn't examine their beliefs, then they are trying to skirt around the issue. The official Church of Scientology is notorious for not tolerating any examination or investigation of their policies or actions that they don't fully control or approve. In fact, it is impossible to get any critical view about Scientology from any Scientologist because of the following policy by Hubbard:

    "10. This group refuses to speak ill of Scientology or criticize it to outsiders.

    11. This group will not talk about Scientology to members of the press."


    The only way anybody can ever gain factual objective information about the Church is by contacting and communicating with people "outside" of the Church. The Church of Scientology will never discuss itself with anyone, by strict Church policy. The Church of Scientology will never allow any of its members to discuss Scientology with anyone, by strict Church policy. As seen in the past posts of this thread, the Church of Scientology takes its policies very seriously.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2009
  2. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor


  3. sallydannce

    sallydannce Gold Meritorious Patron

    Stunning stuff Gadfly!!!!

    I am officially in love with your mind!!!

    You nail the sources/depth of the phobias installed in scientologists.

    You nail the brutality, the loveless system, inherent in Hubbard’s writings.

    You nail why it is so emotionally rough getting one’s head straight after exiting this cult.

    You nail how this whole mind-controlling gig was set up.

    You nail what this whole mess is about.

    Thank you! Really really…thank you!

  4. aaron saxton

    aaron saxton Patron with Honors


    Messiah or madman?

    Clearly a madman. Great thread post. Terrific. Just terrific.

    I got to go now! Ive only got 5 years left!!!!


  5. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Gadfly, the above essay, "Understanding Anybody" re: Beliefs vs Fanaticism is EXCELLENT!
    Thank you for posting it. :)
  6. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    This total responsability thing is really interesting. It's so ingrained in me that I find it hard to not want to correct everything at the same time. It would be more effecient to take on things one at a time, but when I see things that I dont like I feel it's my responsibility, go into panic mode and fail to do anything.

    I think Ive decided to disconnect from the founder of the cult, he was surpressive!
  7. AngeloV

    AngeloV Gold Meritorious Patron

    Excellent essay. Thank you for taking the time to write it.
  8. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I am glad that some are finding these posts useful. I do think that they aim at the core of the problem known as "Scientology". Feel free to cut and paste, and place them anywhere that you'd like.

    NOTE: These basic fundamental Scientology ideas existed in 1965, in 1975, in 1980, in 1990, and they exist today. It doesn't matter WHO the leader is, because the nature and setup of the subject based on many exactly specific LRH policies make any version of Scientology, at any time or place, just what it is. People who try to look before the 1980s, when Miscavige took the helm, and describe the Church of Scientology and the Sea Org as "nicer and different" are either dumb or delusional. As long as these MANY policies exist to form the foundation of the Scientology "belief structure", it will always take a form that is severe, uncompromising, deceitful, manipulative, dishonest, controlling, abusive, or in other words, FANATICAL. People listening to Marty Rathbun and company, who accept the notion that David Miscavige is the "real problem", and that Scientology without him would be all peaches and cream, should read this information about the Scientology belief structure. Yes, David Miscavige is a cretinous slimeball, and he most surely adds to any already existing lunacy, BUT he is NOT the "source" of the problems (LRH is SOURCE - just as he claims). Hubbard is the source of any idea that any of you ever accepted, adopted and "thought with" while involved with Scientology.

    Be very careful what you accept and adopt as a "belief", because they become "postulates" and "axioms" for your current life viewpoint. It is important to realize that you actually co-postulate and create belief when you find an idea attractive and "agree" with it. Hubbard had a reason for pushing the whole "ARC" thing, because it is the tool used to CREATE BELIEF in you. Belief is largely created by agreement - it defines what is accepted as "real" for you.

    The problem was, is and always will be the BELIEF STRUCTURE created in any person who allows these ideas to become part of their consciousness - through participation in and with the Church of Scientology. That is true for anything, whether involving a dstructive cult, your involvement with a political party or choosing which deodorant to buy or not (because it may have "aluminum" in it). Your life is largely defined and determined by your (largely unconscious and quite unaware to you) structure of BELIEFS.

    If Rathbun and others help expose the lunacy of the Church of Scientology, that is great. But, be very wary of anything else they might have to say or imply.

    It is interesting that LRH and Scientology push, with intense PR, the idea that "nobody has to believe anything in Scientology". While you may not "have to", you sure do end up believing very MANY things through activity and involvement with the C of S. Examine whatever beliefs you accepted while there. Let them go on whatever gradient and in whatever way works for you. Be willing to examine yourself and QUESTION the nature of your own belief system. Of course, LRH and Scientology frown heavily on "introversion" - they sure don't want you realizing any of this.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2010
  9. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa


    I'm gonna look so much smarter now because of Gadfly.

  10. Gloria Manchenburg

    Gloria Manchenburg Patron with Honors

    What breeds resentment for the outside world and a fanatic paranoid state is the siege mentality that Scientology breeds; mostly because of what a paranoid delusional son of a bitch Ron was.
  11. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Excellent work, Gadfly. Thanks very much.

  12. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    More on Key Belief Number Two

    Staff members of the Church don't hold back on this at all. I have a friend who was discovered viewing anti-Scientology information on the Internet. He was taken into a room and three OSA (Office of Special Affairs) staff members basically screamed and yelled at him for fifteen minutes, accusing him of supporting "the horrible enemy" and threatening to take his chance for eternal freedom away. This is not an uncommon occurrence. Your possible future "spiritual freedom", and its threatened loss, is their ace up their sleeve that they will resort to when necessary to exact compliance to their demands. It can be tremendously intimidating and smacks strongly of coercion and duress. But the large majority tolerate it. Why? Again, so they can "get" their "spiritual freedom". It is extremely pitiful that the group that actually owns and controls a subject that possibly can enable at least some degree of "spiritual freedom" behaves like such brutes, dullards and totalitarians. But then that is explained by going back and looking at Key Belief Number One again. Belief One pretty much explains and justifies everything. It really need not necessarily be that way, with so much ruthlessness and force, but that is how the current senior members of the Church choose to play the game. And, Hubbard did write that attitude and view right into many of the poilicies.

    This is partially why RTC works so hard to maintain a rock solid monopoly on the copyrights and trademarks. If they lost a tight hold on that then people could go anywhere to do Scientology services - they would then no longer have that tool of enforcement and control at their disposal.

    "Do what we say or else you will be expelled and lose your sole chance for Spiritual Freedom"

    is a looming and constant threat in the current environment of the Church of Scientology. It might not be spoken about much, surely never mentioned out loud, but the idea and threat is never far away. It is a constant undercurrent, it is extremely pervasive, and though somewhat subtle, it is crystal clear to just about anyone who has been around the Church of Scientology awhile. If you could actually get any Scientology public or staff member to answer honestly, without fear of intimidation, threats of severe ethics actions, or expulsion, and they do discuss these things at times amongst themselves when they are sure nobody is listening, many and even most would confirm the above description of what makes Scientology tick these days and why they tow the line as they do. The fear and intimidation factor is not minor.

    But, for the most part, current Scientology staff and members won't ever talk about it, because they know what will happen if they say anything derogatory (even if true) about the Church or Church leaders. The only place to locate people who will speak honestly is among ex-members who no longer have a reason to behave as required. When you speak with ex-members you are talking to people 1) who have been there, 2) who have real experiences usually over extensive periods of time, but most importantly, 3) who are no longer intimidated into compromising and hiding their honest views and true opinions about the behavior of the Church of Scientology. This description of reality within the Church of Scientology, sadly, is amazingly accurate.

    As far as promoting the idea that ONLY Scientology can deliver real salvation and solve the world's troubles, here are a few more quotes from L. Ron Hubbard's writings:

    "The Product of an org is well-taught students and thoroughly audited pcs. When the product vanishes, so does the org. The orgs must survive for the sake of this planet".

    (HCOPL 17 June 1970B Issue I TECHNICAL DEGRADES)

    "We have some time since passed the point of achieving uniformly workable technology. The only thing now is getting the technology applied."

    (HCO PL 7 February 1965 KSW Series 1)

    "Orgs are in the very new, for this universe, business of setting people free. So, just do it, man, do it!"

    (HCO PL 13 January 1983 THE BUSINESS OF ORGS)


    You see, we are not dealing with "just another self-help subject" or a "make people feel better".

    For the first time ever - and this is confirmed with careful historical research - the tech exists to reverse the chaos. Where we are this instant in time is at the reverse point of the universe. You are the one who will make it happen.

    You have the tech now; you have the policy. It is you who are applying it. And by applying it, you have the power to reverse the dwindling spiral that has gone on without pause for more years than you can get into an Earth calculator.

    For the first time ever you have this chance. And it is you who, just by knowing and using relentlessly the policy and tech, will make it happen.

    It may seem large and awesome but it is a fact. You are not engaged in anything superficial.

    And no objective worth obtaining was ever achieved without some barriers arising or industrious dedication.

    So: Make it happen! The stars wait!"

    (HCO PL 31 January 1983 THE REASON FOR ORGS)

    "Only a Scientology Organization has an unlimited horizon".


    "Auditors have since the first session of Scientology been the only individuals on this planet, in this universe capable of freeing man."

    (HCO PL 31 May 1968 Issue II AUDITORS)

    "Throughout the ages, man has struggled with the subjects of right and wrong and ethics and justice.

    Unfortunately, until now, there has been no workable solution, as evidenced by the declining ethical level of society.

    The breakthrough in Scientology is that we do have the basic technology of ethics.

    This is a brand new discovery.; before Scientology it had never before seen the light of day, anywhere."


    "You are a clear. This state has not previously been attained in this universe and we must work towards getting more people - many more people - up to this level.

    I expect and need your help to carry out the broad mission of de-contaminating this area of the universe".

    (An Open Letter to all Clears by L. Ron Hubbard)

    "In this minute particle of time we have the opportunity to reverse the downward spiral of life.

    There is no longer any question if it is the right road.

    It is no longer a question of whether standard ethics and policy work.

    It is only a question of whether or not YOU apply them."

    (LRH ED 347 INT 31 December 1982)

    ". . . Dianetics and Scientology are the most valuable service on the planet . . ."

    (HCO PL 26 September 1979 Issue III COPYWRITING)

    "If the Captain does not KNOW that Advanced Courses are the most valuable service on the planet he will not be able to understand HARD SELL. THEREFORE HE MUST REALIZE: That life insurance, houses, cars, stocks, bonds, college savings, are all transitory and impermanent and based on things not surviving, or on things that are in fact being destroyed.

    Advanced Courses rehabilitate the Thetan to his OT abilities and last forever and give immortality.

    'Hard Sell' is based on knowing and promoting in this line (TRUTH!) and not being reasonable about people who want 'other things' or 'other practices'. There is nothing to compare with Advanced Courses. They are infinitely valuable and transcend time itself."

    (Flag Mission Order 375, 14 August 1970)

    "You see, despite inferences to the contrary, this tech has not been available before anywhere and was not even known.

    It is the route, which if purely used, uncorrupted and unperverted, will bring you at last to the vast free vistas of freedom and truth and the glory of being really you."

    (LRH ED 348 INT Ron's Journal 37, 13 March 1983)

    "The business of Scientology involves the future of this population and planet and only the very insane would tamper with that.

    I have been researching upper OT levels and I can tell you this very plainly: If Scn doesn't make it worldwide you've had it - yes, I mean YOU.

    One is not working for just this life. He is working for any future life AT ALL".


    "No such knowledge has ever existed and no such results have ever before been attainable by Man as those which can be reached by a study of this brief volume.

    This book is a summation, if brief, of the results of 50,000 years of thinking men. Their materials, researched and capped by a quarter century of original search by L. Ron Hubbard, have brought the humanities, so long outdistanced by the "exact sciences", into a state of equality, if not superiority, to physics, chemistry and mathematics.

    What has been attempted by a thousand universities and foundations at a cost of billions has been completed quietly here.

    This IS how life works.

    The use or neglect of this material may well determine the use or neglect of the atomic bomb by Man.

    To a Scientologist, the real barbarism of Earth is STUPIDITY.

    There is not much Earth time. We must work.

    The criminal is ignorant and stupid. Ignorance and stupidity may therefore be called criminal.

    There is not much Earth time in which to distribute this knowledge. This is THE solution to our barbarism out of which we would lose all. Scientology works. WE must work, all of us."

    (Fundamentals of Thought, 1975 printing, Introduction)

    "With Scientology man can prevent insanity, criminality and war. It is for the betterment of man.

    The only race that matters at this moment is the one being run between Scientology and the atomic bomb. The history of man, as has been said by well-known authorities, may well depend upon which one wins".

    (Fundamentals of Thought, 1975 printing, Chapter 12 Exact Processes)

    "Scientology is the most vital movement on Earth today".

    (Fundamentals of Thought, 1975 printing, The Aims of Scientology)

    Hubbard constantly stresses the idea that Scientology is the ONLY group that has solutions and workable methods to solve the most important problems confronting Mankind. All Scientologists read and accept these ideas early on. These ideas become part of their belief system. Key Belief Number Two is the second primary belief in the foundation of the Scientology edifice.

    The question is not even whether they have workable solutions. Many of their methods can be useful and helpful, to at least some. The point here is that they USE these beliefs to justify their often severe, nasty and shady actions.

    A fanatic is a person who believes that their belief system is far above, more accurate than, and more valid than all others, and the fanatic acts "religiously" (with overbearing, inappropriate zeal and fervor), dedicatedly, forcefully, unwaveringly and often simplistically to realize their goals. They do so because they conceive that ONLY their ideas, plans, views of reality and solutions are valid. They also look down upon all the views of others and any views that contradict or invalidate their own. This description is true for the 14th-century torturing priest of the Spanish Inquisition, the Nazi SS executioner, the door-knocking Jehovah's Witness, the psychiatric Electro-Shock apologist and the party-allegiant Russian Communist KGB agent.

    It is also true, in many ways, to the Church of Scientology.

    Key Beliefs Number One and Two create the ideas of a horrible future, unless the path is strictly followed. The goal is to follow the Path exactly and to allow nothing else. These two beliefs make up the "ends" in the following sentence:

    "The ends justify the means".

    To the person who accepts and believes Key Belief Number One and Number Two, there is ONLY one answer - to do anything and everything possible, without restrictions or boundaries, to reach the goal. In fact, the entire concept is brutally simple. Win, or else, and take no prisoners.

    Having read and understood this about Scientology beliefs should make it easier for ANYONE (ex-members, possible future members, lawyers, critics, governments, etc) to easily see how and why they behave so extreme at times (like any well-indoctrinated fanatic).

    More to come tomorrow - watch for what Key Belief Number Three is all about, and how it relates to the first two.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2009
  13. Great posts, Gadfly.

    And the cult uses Guilt in various forms of 'not doing enough to save the planet' etc etc to introvert. Once introverted and guilt ridden you are now so easy to manipulate and rape your personal resources, your time, your money, your life, your goodwill, your dreams, your compassion.
  14. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    .......your son, your wife your family, your freedom, the freedom of your fellow man......

    Have you read this thread yet? It's called "Scientology vs Godwins Law"

    Last edited: Dec 24, 2009
  15. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron


    Gadfly, you have posted all of the things I had in mine for some time regarding

    LRH references. You have written it better than I could have.

    Because the references you have such a complete job of assembling have been

    used in such a fanatical way does not from a long-established viewpoint make

    them in themselves fanatical.

    I have lost $200K to the fanatical application.

    The workable tech that used to exist has been carefully destroyed, sabotaged, and purposely obscured, at a stepped up rate since the IRS took
    over in 1993.

    LRH was the source of the fanatical application, and as has been so carefully

    pointed out by others, 1963 was the turning point downward for LRH's case.

    The point of writing this was that my own viewpoints on a crumbling society

    shifted radically in 1968 through a series of OT observations in the most

    entheta area of the planet. Late that year I saw we had two years left,

    which just came to me directly, with no knowledge of Scientology. Much later

    in Scientology I read LRH's reference written in 1965 about having 2-5 years

    left pessimistically / optimistically. I believe it was OT-3 that bought us the

    time, as regardless of problems with it, apparently many beings are audited

    and handled on it by the one auditing the level.

    The number of OT-3's being made has been recently drastically reduced for

    many reasons.

    I do believe people who tell me that Knowledgism is superior for handling this

    area, but few therein are doing much about the greater picture either.

    I'm as pissed off as anyone regarding LRH's out-ethics and his abandonment

    of his case. Also how he picked on beings of superior power to try and

    destroy them, particularly this is ongoing against me right now from a being

    in LRH's personality using LRH as the ultimate Service Fac using LRH's evil

    side to justify his reverse auditing of me. (outside the Church)

    Back to the point: All of the LRH writings above (or most, as I'm familiar with

    them and didn't re-read all of your long posts) are spot on as to where this

    planet is headed (and soon). This is solely from my own observations.

    Alan Walter also agrees pretty closely if you read the early part of "Gods In

    Disguise" which I am now doing.

    If you want to see how close we are to things falling apart look up. Where it

    used to be a bad day when 12 Chem Trails were laid down here, now we

    have countless, estimated as 3-4 dozen daily many days.

    Go look up "LA SCN" thread on the Chem Trails and their purpose and intent.

    I finally read it (5 pages) and it explains how bad it really is.

    The Ethics of the CO$ is so insane that the tech that used to get results is

    difficult or impossible to get now. Ethics and Tech used to be applied with

    some sanity and results. Hard to wander through the Tech minefield today

    and make it out the other side, rather impossible.

    Because LRH warned us of the impending situation on this God-forsaken

    hellhole Earth, is no reason to say that those statements are untrue. Because

    they have been applied with a seriousness ("Seriousness = Mental Mass")

    which is NOT helpful to any possible Spirit-of-Play solution and that does

    seem "fanatical" is no reason to make the statements themselves seem


    It is hard, or impossible for most to confront the future here, so invalidating

    statements of that would seem like a solution.

    IS IT ?


    (Next time I comm with LRH, I'm going to suggest, none too politely that he

    grab a body and sit down and get his major case situations resolved.)
  16. because

    because Patron

    Yes I did read Gadfly's posts.
    The person has to be blindly accepting in the first place to become a fanatic. Not everyone that reads LRH becomes a fanatic. Not everyone takes the comments he has made with equal truth and importance. So of all the people who have read his materials what percentage become fanatics? It maybe that the person that realizes they were a fanatic because they read LRH believes that others who read it will become fanatics.
    Maybe differenciation of data comes easy to me.
  17. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Blue Spirit, I got what you are saying, but I don't agree.

    First, I don't know that the Tech is so horribly "destroyed" as you put it. Oh sure, there is no doubt Miscavige is changing things, but the actual Grade Chart, with the usual actions? Are they so different? Maybe, but I somehow don't think so. L-10, L-11, L-12? Have they been drastically changed? The Grades? I will be the first the point at the alterations, but have they "destroyed" the "wonderful Bridge"? The Bridge has always had its problem - that is why Hubbard was forever ADDING to it. It was NEVER at a point of "completion", all Church PR to the contrary. The Bridge forever was a "work in progress". THAT is the reality of the Scientology "Bridge to Total Freedom".

    The whole Bridge may be useless anyway, in 1963 or now. Just BE 3 feet in back or your head, and get creative. Start! Or, grab onto the back top two corners of the room, hold onto them, and don't think. Do that 1 hour every day for a year or two. You will probably be more "clear" or "OT" than ANY Grade Chart results could ever put you at.

    Second, I had been around in the early 1970s and the functioning of the group was always INSANE. I never saw a time when management wasn't totally fruitcake nutty!

    Third, I never really undrstood or agreed with all the people endlessly moaning about "how much worse everything keeps getting". I have read MOST of the conspiracy books on aliens, New World Order, bankers, Fed Reserve, education, history of psychiatry, Mullins, Coleman, Epperson, and so forth. I have over 2 5-shelf bookshelves filled with all of that "the end is coming and why" scenarios. But, I see it very differently. Earth has ALWAYS been a fucking ZOO! There is no, "it is deteriorating". What exists today is just a different possible version of Earth, given the many numerous and various factors and variables involved. It hasn't really gotten better or worse, not overall, not on an average. Some things get better and some things get worse, and those things ARE DIFFERENT for different people, depending on their viewpoints and goals. Sometimes I actually think the NWO crowd may have a better idea than the rest. Maybe humanity should be herded and bred like cattle. Maybe that is all they deserve - as displayed by their so many unsavory tendencies to harm each other in the name of some stupid "cause". Oh, I know - all the confusion has been created by alien entities and off-world controller forces. Maybe. But, if so, you will NEVER be able to change what is very much then well beyond your scope, knowledge and ability to effect changes. I suspect that Hubbard baited you all with these ideas, and used them for his own purposes - whether the doomsday scenarios are true or not. Just because Hubbard may have been able to point at some things that were wrong or going badly in the world does not mean that he could do anything at all about those things (even though he surely said that he could). It is common for people to make the mistake that because some person or group can point to negatives and outpoints, that this somehow implies that their "solutions" have any merit.

    Fourth, all of this "it is falling apart" is based on the idea or assumption that you actually think there is anything that anyone can possibly do about how this world will eventually unfold. What is, is what is. If you are a thetan, then really, it doesn't matter. Cycles follow cycles follow more cycles, and it all comes and goes - possibly forever. Go with the flow. All this resistance against the "horrible eventual decline of all civilization" helps to CREATE such a reality. Forget about it, and it will probably vanish on its own.

    The factors or variables involved with planet Earth are far too numerous to fathom, much less "control" so as to direct it along some exact course of events. That holds true for whatever "ultimate controllers" might exist. Nothing turns out as planned, and in the end the "random" variable is probably the largest and most relevant, despite aliens, medical conspiracies, genetic experimentation and who knows what else.

    I think some people WANT to believe that it is all falling apart, and those type people find and agree with such sorts of data. I really do think that each person gets EXACTLY what he or she wants and expects - in a so amazingly for-sure, certain way, that I can only laugh watching so much of what goes on. What you see and experience is only and exactly what YOU are. If you see doom and gloom, then THAT is WHO you are! I have this hard-to-explain notion that any person's life and external events of experience, on every level and dynamic, are a sort of Karmic unfolding of the person's own basic true nature (as he or she exists at this moment as a package of beliefs, attitudes, abilities and awareness). If you don't like what you see, change yourself - and you won't see it anymore, because you will find yourself somewhere else! If consciousness REALLY is the basis for each person, and I suspect that it is, then all attempts at effecting "out there" are absurdly ridiculous.

    The only peace anyone will EVER find is INSIDE, right where you are sitting. Trying to "fix it all out there" is a fool's game. It is always changing into something else. Change is the norm in this universe. Let it do whatever it will do, and stop pretending that there is anything that anyone can or will do about it. The ONLY thing any person can change or better is his or herself. I truly currently have the opinion that when I see a person talking about "contrails" and "conspiracies" and "flouride in the water" (which may all very well exist), I see a person who is STUCK out in the external reality. Even if you could "fix it all" out there, the most important factor in the equation, YOU, have been neglected.

    Find peace within. Be it. And then MAYBE the world will follow. But the reverse will NEVER happen.

    I think Ghandi said, "be the change that you want to see in the world". But all other attempts, thoughts and energies are futile. Force against force NEVER improves conditions.

    Be the change YOU want to see in the world. BE IT. In other words, be, feel and SEE the world as if it were the most perfect world of your dreams. Some mystics say that it could and would change instantly right before your eyes - because, the world IS YOU (but you don't know that deeply). And, every external force and negative factor you imagine to exist, exists for you because and only because you think it does.

    Be the change YOU want to see in the world. BE IT.

    All else is useless - I think. :unsure:
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2010
  18. because

    because Patron

    Your posts seems be a warning call and an effort to enlighten others about the pit falls of outragious comments plus your own opinions (which you are very much entitled to). But that is a limited view IMO the fanatic has the flaw of the failure to qualify data and puts emotions in place of it. His personal qual is out. He may dismiss Scn and go elsewhere and repeat the same action, yet a true qualification of any info should resolve any fanatisim.
  19. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I will explain tomorrow why any personal application of judgment within the framework of official Scientology is NOT POSSIBLE. If you do that, then you are doing so UNDER their radar, because official RTC-directed Scientology is a 100% all-or-none proposition, and I will give MANY references tomorrow to show and explain why.
  20. because

    because Patron

    I didn't mention "judgement" or "within the framework of Scn" in my post.

    Your posts seems be a warning call and an effort to enlighten others about the pit falls of outragious comments plus your own opinions (which you are very much entitled to). But that is a limited view IMO the fanatic has the flaw of the failure to qualify data and puts emotions in place of it. His personal qual is out. He may dismiss Scn and go elsewhere and repeat the same action, yet a true qualification of any info should resolve any fanatisim

    Nonetheless I await your reference.