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Featured Scientology Breeds Fanaticism

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Gadfly, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Have I read . . .?

    Yes, Sweetness, I have read Bent ( and lots of others), but not the 'Onion' - I will try to find that. Thanks.
     
  2. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Scitog Onion

    Sweetness, I read the 'Onion' this morn, and no I have never read that before. I have that book so mine must be a first edition. Yes, the 'Onion' pretty much describes what I think Scitog is, and my experiences in the top layer (or two). My reading in the last few decades filled me in on most of the other layers. Not much is still secret anymore - except to those in it . . .
     
  3. Yes...

    Isn't it sad? Those on the outside have more knowledge of facts and history of the Scientology movement than those on the inside. Something really wrong with that picture! :no: Hope everyone can find the freedom to look soon, and to know, and to make up their own minds about things...

    Glad you joined us here, Lurker! :)
     
  4. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    The more you know about Scientology, the less likely you are to be a Scientologist.

    Scientology 'Tech' is about eliminating the ability to 'evaluate' Scientology.

    Zinj
     
  5. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Holy mackerel! - don't know why I have overlooked this thread.. Until now.. And I'm about halfway through the thread.. Need a break now.. Incredible stuff Gadfly! - Very well written and reasoned!

    If not already mentioned, I'm gonna post about the 'Black Panther' principle, where Hubbard intends to persuade us to become unreasonable assholes.. But his logic fails..

    :yes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2010
  6. I have often seen myself in the valence of the Black Panther on the staircase! :p

    Try it, it's very empowering!
     
  7. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Do I want to imagine THAT? Mmmm? :D

    I think we are talking about an entirely DIFFERENT type of "black panther" here. GROWL! :omg:
     
  8. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm enjoying this thread, but may I just comment on this;

    "Scientology isn't like some version of Christianity, such as a sect of Protestantism, where you can accept some ideas, ignore other ideas, and still be a part of that Christian Church with differing or watered-down views."

    Christianity wasn't like that either at one time. How do you think the Crusades and the Inquisition happened?

    Protestantism is the way it is now because (a very simplified version here) some people realised you could have the NT - the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels, the epistles etc. - without the fanaticism. The Scn freezone is based on the same premise regarding the tech.
     
  9. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Excellent point. I am very aware of that. My view is that fanaticism will tend to always appear in the official church framework, where LRH is taken 100% and enforced all of the time. Within THAT environment, NO picking and choosing is allowed, and a rigid viewpoint can only be the outcome.

    In a "looser" environment where people are FREE to pick and choose (thus "Free" Zone), of course, the degree of fanaticism will wane. People in the FZ are free to minimize the value and importance of KSW, PR, Scio-manipulation, and Hubbard's "organizational blabbering". But, always keep in mind that they will be choosing (correctly) to omit various writings of Hubbard's, and to greatly reduce others in importance, whereas the "official" Church of Scientology does not and will probably NEVER allow any such thing! :no:

    To the degree that "alternative" Scio groups and "squirrel groups" form and persist, and to the degree the C of S cannot stop them and itself diminishes, ONLY THEN will the "protestantization" of Scientology evolve.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
  10. Boojuum

    Boojuum Silver Meritorious Patron

    Hypno minds

    Fabulous thread. This should be part of the "I'm finally out of the cult" routing form.

    Hubbard's ability to come up with an inspirational line and method to keep you going in spite of all temptation to do otherwise is impressive.

    LRH was saying, "This is a spiritual stickup. Give me everything or else. Everything!!! NOW!!!" And we complied, at least for a while.

    Reminds me of all the nun's lectures about the various depths of hell and purgatory.

    Sheesh, take a chill pill.
     
  11. Gaijin

    Gaijin Patron

    Growing up in the 60s, this was the height of the so-called Cultural Revolution as led by Mao (or the Gang of Four, take your pick). Every Red Guard member carried their own copy of Mao's Little Red Book, with the sayings of Chairman Mao. People who disagreed were sent for "re-education". A lot of what has been written here seems to have been adopted from what the Red Chinese were doing back at that time. Perhaps this is why they referred to it as "Chinese School"?

    Gaijin
     
  12. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Yes. Many of the changes that Hubbard placed into Scientology in the mid 1960's originate from Maoist reconditioning techniques.
     
  13. cantsay

    cantsay Patron Meritorious

    Since leaving the church I have developed a deep dislike to fanatacism of any type. It disgusts me because of the way it causes a person to disregard the opinions and wishes of those they interact with.

    Bleughh.
     
  14. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    Gadfly, this thread and your posts, utilizing Hubbards own policy letters is fantastic! Reading the policy letters today makes me shudder, recalling my utter belief I was reading THE TRUTH. You have stated your case so factually that I hope people coming out of the Co$ read this thread. Had I done so 12 years ago I would have saved myself a lot of doubts. Definitely recommended for for any one wanting see actual policies of what a $ci is told to think...how could I have been so foolish...sigh.
     
  15. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I think this is one of the best threads on ESMB ever.
     
  16. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I fanatically believe that all fanatics should be killed. A fatwa on all of you.
     
  17. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    I fanaticlly agree but my fanaticism has been declining through the years. Mind if I meekly foam at the mouth instead? lol.
     
  18. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    I'm very tired of organized religion.
     
  19. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    The simple reality is that Hubbard never hid his intentions. He spells it out clearly, over and over, in writing and on tapes.

    One needs to understand just how strongly any person's beliefs (agreements, fixed ideas, strong opinions) directly affect and define a person's actions. This is especially true and easy to see with religions, though political ideologies follow closely behind.

    Hubbard and Scientology constantly push and ram these basic Scientology beliefs down your throat. Take those away and there can be no more insidious control, or even a C of S as it currenly exists.

    The Church PR machine, and dumbos like the Marty brigade, routinely underplay and try to avoid any mention of the basic BELIEF structure and psychology involved with HARD-CORE BELIEVERS of ANY sort. This aspect is key to what Scientology "does" to people.

    It is basically all about controlling a person's thoughts. That is why so many people get declared SPs - to get the infected questioning thoughts OUT of the accepted party-line thought pool.

    I think most people interpret or misinterpret much of what Hubbard says while involved in Scientology (thereby somewhat minimizing the extreme fanaticism involved), but the severe "don't talk about it" vibe (No Verbal Data) within the Church environment keeps those (common) misunderstandings and misinterpretations out of view. Everybody imagines that they all happily agree with each other, but really, deep down, people have largely different opinions and views about the Church, Scientology and Hubbard. The don't-talk-about-it vibe and a very higly controlled oppressive environment (KRs, severe ethics, fears of disconnection, etc) creates an ILLUSION of high-toned agreement that actually isn't there.

    But, when it comes down to it, the basic Scientology beliefs, accepted and acted upon by Scientology lemmings of all sorts, are what keep the machine rolling. If THOSE were chipped way at, and exposed as the large abusrdities that they are, well the Church would have a tough time of it. :thumbsup:
     
  20. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    Gadfly, it's ironic that people are looking for an answer or answers and so many have found $ci. only to be very disappointed( works for every one, huh? lol) I read dianetics and FoT when I was 14, did a comm course when I was 15, collected more books and was impressed with what I had read and applied. I would book 1 audit through the years and didn't hear any negatives through the years until I joined staff. It was when I started reading policy and dealing when the public, asking questions regarding the Co$ that my doubts started. Why does the Co$ want so much $ for services? Why do people leave? Why are people antagonistic towards $ci.? Why does Hubtard come across so hard ass in his PL's? Whats OSA? Why am I so friggin tired working full time and putting in 6 to 8 hours a night for $ci? Yeah, questions lead to members thinking for themselves, hence being Declared and FREEEEEEEEE.