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Scientology, Ron Hubbard and Hypnosis

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by mockingbird, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes, yes, yes...

    Repetition can induce a trance...

    The Comm Cyle is NOT repetive; the PC gives a fresh answer each time
     
  2. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    LRH used many conman tricks but like it or not the sonofabitch is recognized as a genius by many of his most serious critics; e.g. Time Magazine
     
  3. Dotey OT

    Dotey OT Cyclops Duck of the North - BEWARE

    But the comm cycle IS repetitive in auditing, for both the pc AND the auditor. And it is that way in TRAINING and AUDITING. Doesn't matter about the words, but there is more that is wrong with auditing than the repetitive nature of it.

    First, If you want to believe that TR3 is correct, you can get the effect of "A Blur with other questions." I have seen very few auditors with "TR'S worth a lick. Oh my god!

    Have you seen people drilling TR's and passing out?

    Have you seen auditors falling asleep while auditing?

    With my eyes anyway, that's what I've seen. At some point you gotta wonder. I did back then.
     
    JustSheila likes this.
  4. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    I'd go with "evil genius." Beginning as a 2nd-rate pulp writer, he became a multi-millionaire with his own private navy and thousands of followers, some of whom would have died for him. He conducted Operation Snow White.

    "This project included a series of infiltrations into and thefts from 136 government agencies, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology, carried out by Church members in more than 30 countries.[1] It was one of the largest infiltrations of the United States government in history,[2] with up to 5,000 covert agents.[3]"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

    He was a lying, cheating conman, but quite a brilliant one.
     
  5. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    I'll go with he knew how to con brilliant people to do what he wanted. :yes:
     
    tesseract likes this.
  6. mockingbird

    mockingbird Silver Meritorious Patron

    Uh, you are not addressing every aspect of Dianetics and Scientology. some parts do use repetition.
     
  7. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    :D

    I wish it had been that easy Birdie ... but it wasn't (actually in the end it was unbelievably easy, so you are right, but getting to that point took a long time).


    I quite liked the SA lists and I didn't mind life repair either but that is where it stopped being interesting for me ... I did do the grades because I had no choice but I got through them fast (they were as boring as).

    The bottom line is ... there was (ahem) ... nothing wrong in the first place. I didn't need or want his tek, but the trap had been set and I had wandered in so I had to go through all the usual things we all went through in order to get back out intact (ie in good standing) while trying to keep the losses to a minimum (my family) and that didn't work out very well as it happens.

    The OT levels really annoyed me and that was the actual and immediate end of my involvement in the cofs (though it still took ages to free myself).

    Ah well, live and learn eh?
     
  8. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    well, sort of like that for me. I ran a few hundred dianetics hours but never experienced an engram. I tried, I tried to see a full mental image picture, but never happened. I did cry during some sessions in recalling things, but I do this all the time if one were to ask me about a dog friend who died or even if a friend said his/her dog died, or even watching a emotional movie. You know what I mean.
     
  9. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I kind of don't think with the subconscious idea anymore.
     
  10. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    I know exactly what you mean but you know, the fact that he even came out with 'natural clear' (and a few other similar versions of 'clear') suggests to me that you and I were not alone and lots of people must have been experiencing something similar ... there could have been loads of people like us who didn't really want to know about auditing and were just going through the motions ... because there was nothing wrong in the first place.

    We couldn't discuss things with each other though ...

    Allowing us to attest and then go straight to the oatee levels kind of says it all.

    :D
     
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    well, I did want to know about auditing, I used to read the HCOBs on everything about clear, couldn't about OT cuz confidential and not available.

    I even once read my latest PC folder, not all of it, just opened it up and took a look, didn't find anything, I was just curious if I'm sort of clear or not.

    Got in a bit of trouble, but nothing bad.

    It was the mystery of it all.

    LOL
     
  12. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Yeah, I wanted to go 'clear and OT' too but the road to getting there was unnecessary and excruciating (as was clear and OT, we know that now).

    It was a well baited trap to nowhere.

    :D
     
    Gib likes this.
  13. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    yah, it's like I keep saying sometimes well any two people are supposed to clear themselves using Dianetics book alone. What a load of crap. that was never true from the get go.
     
    ThetanExterior likes this.
  14. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    True, because there is no such thing as clear/OT but an uncluttered mind is attainable, many people have one of those (people who have never even heard of scientology or dianetics).

    I think the most valuable part of scientology was the Self Analysis lists ... they were cool. I believe they picked up any bits of upset or trauma for many people and cleaned it up but ... they were part of the original bait so even they had hidden hooks attached.
     
    ThetanExterior and Gib like this.
  15. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't doubt your report for a second DOT

    but...

    to answer your questions...

    no and no.

    I trained in SF '71-'72 and was staff at FCDC '72-'74. SF is always a special place but more so then. FCDC set some great records in HGC and Academy when I was there and my wife and I had a sunny, spacious modern, two room apartment with kichenette and full bath on staff pay.

    We did things well and to large extent right...

    But things got noticeably screwed up with the introduction of two hour blinkless TR-0
     
  16. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I did the SA lists with my sister, I wanted to help her. We ran the questions and we had fun, who wouldn't it's talking about past fun times with a few added things such as perception, time, etc, whatever the wheel said to perceive in our minds. We laughed a lot.

    We do this all the time with meeting friends or new people when I think about it.

    Here's the thing, I never told my sister about the purpose of doing this SA lists. We had fun doing them but she never reached to do more.

    That's why I say if you haven't read about what it is all supposed to mean, the significance of it all, why that is Hubbard's rhetoric of persuasion, or even the word indoctrination. We fell for the significance of clear and OT. My sister did not because she never read the books or listened to the lectures by Hubbard.

    Hubbard said books make booms, should be reading his books mean being indoctrinated or persuaded.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  17. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    It's not hard to think of him as an evil genius and I too can suspect him of it.

    BUT!!!

    I read "Mission Earth" very carefully...

    No.

    My fellow Granitestatesman, dear friend, a founding hippie, a Tibetan Red Hat Buddhist and Christian a mage, a student of many things including Alister Crowley, the late great River Raven may he rest in peace said he saw Elron as one of those mages who shifts back and frt between the Right Hand Path and the Left Hand Path...

    Good call I'd say
     
  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes I know and perhaps some of those ways can induce trance but "repetitive auditing" has the variable of th PC response.
     
  19. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    So you did OT levels?
     
  20. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yeah...

    "we couldn't discuss things..."

    In SF we could and DID!

    At FCDC on staff it was much more muzzled...