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Scientology security kills man with sword

Discussion in 'Legal and Government Actions Involving Scientology' started by iaxiloll, Nov 23, 2008.

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  1. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Too funny. Moral of the story: if you have a grievance with the Church, probably best to leave your swords in the car.
  2. klidov

    klidov Silver Meritorious Patron

    To begin with, I typed my answer before I saw that little tid-bit. (ie: the tapes).

    Second, re-read my answer. I covered the point this is not a winning situation for protesters.

    I do not, nor have I EVER supported illegal activity. I do support peaceful protests (complete with the proper paperwork filed with the city).

    AND, till this story happened, Anons were attacked by Church members (as caught on film). Anons did NOT attack $cis.
  3. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I took a handgun class many years ago that was taught by 2 city policemen. This entailed how to load it, how to hold it, what a "target picture" is, and some practice in a shooting range. We used Ruger 22s to learn because using a larger caliber has more kick and will cause a student to develop a bad habit flinch which affects accuracy. (At the end I did test/qualify for a cert as "sharpshooter"... the only one in the beginner's class that did so.)

    I know about the rule of shooting into the middle of the chest to stop a deadly assault. I just don't keep up with whatever the latest practices might be... years later. I didn't know if it was still the same now as it was way back.
  4. NonScio

    NonScio Patron Meritorious

    Well, whatever the details tturn out to be, the fact is established that
    a man was shot and killed by a scientology armed guard "defending"
    a scientology "church".

    What this may say to the public is:

    1: This is a dangerous place, akin to the areas where
    drive by shootings occur.

    2. What kind of "church" is attacked by samurai sword
    wielding "ninjas"?

    3. What kind of nieghborhood "church" is defended by an
    armed guard..ready to shoot to kill anyone percieved as
    a "threat"?

    4. There's something really wierd going on here, there's something
    wierd about scientology.

    5. Scientology, like drugs, is dangerous. Stay away from it.
    When approached by anyone involved with it, walk away...
    "Just Say No" to scientology!
  5. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free,0,6552577.story
    (new news bolded)

    A security guard at the Church of Scientology's Celebrity Centre in Hollywood Sunday shot and killed a man wielding two samurai swords, police said.

    Police detained the guard for questioning but said that a surveillance tape at the facility backed his claim that he fired his semiautomatic handgun to protect himself and two colleagues.

    "The evidence is very clear the security officers were defending their safety," said Deputy Chief Terry S. Hara of the Los Angeles Police Department.

    Police did not release the name of the guard or the man killed in the 1:30 p.m. shooting. An investigator said the man had a history with the church but was not a member now. The tape showed the man arriving at the Celebrity Centre's Bronson Avenue parking lot in a red convertible, getting out of the vehicle and approaching a trio of security guards and waving a sword in each hand, Hara said.

    He said the man, who was described as being in his 40s, was "close enough to hurt them" when the guard fired. The man was taken to County-USC Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead.

    Det. Wendi Berndt said the man was involved with the church "a long time ago."

    "There was a previous relationship, but it is unclear to what degree," she said.

    A teenager who saw the man arrive in the parking lot said he stopped the car abruptly in the driveway and climbed out with a 5-foot sword in his hand and an angry expression on his face. Tony Marquez, 17, said the man, who was bald and had tattoos on his arms, walked toward the building, then returned to the car to get the other sword.
    "I thought it was part of a show," said Marquez, of Ontario. He and his mother entered the building before the shooting began.

    Police said the guard worked for a private security company. Detectives cordoned off the Franklin Avenue complex with yellow tape as investigators combed through the man's Toyota Solara. The incident occurred at one of Hollywood's most distinctive landmarks. Originally a luxury hotel, the eight-story building was built in the style of a 17th century French castle with a striking white facade and turrets that loom over the nearby Hollywood Freeway.
  6. Kha Khan

    Kha Khan Patron Meritorious

    Unfortunately, the answer will be a church that is the victim of religious discrimination and bigotry that has now reached the level of violence.

    I'm sorry, but again, people who think that this event is bad publicity for the Church of Scientology are simply mistaken. Fairly or unfairly, this will be bad publicity for Critics and Anons. This will tend to convince the public, law enforcement and judges that the Church of Scientology does have some reason to fear physical violence.
  7. Lovesnightsky

    Lovesnightsky Silver Meritorious Patron

    The press should also be told that this is not the first scientology related death.

    Scientology has a long list of "suicides", murders and suspicious deaths.
  8. Lovesnightsky

    Lovesnightsky Silver Meritorious Patron

    Only the guy is an ex scientologist. Can't claim terrorist there.
  9. Spirited

    Spirited Patron with Honors

    Imagine causing a flap in the Vatican with a couple of swords and see how many guns you have in your face in short order.
    It is normal for any security guard to have a gun. Standard tool of that hat. No issue there.

    I’d have to say that if someone was waving swords around in my vicinity with the intent to harm, I wouldn’t be trying to reason with them tone 40 or otherwise, nor waiting around to find out if he was going to stick it in my face, or my colleagues before acting on it.
    Emerging Evidence points to some nutter trying to hurt people. Regardless of my thoughts toward scientology, I do not condone that sort of dangerous behavior from anyone to anyone. It appears that the security guard was acting in self defense to protect not just him, but others as well.

    I agree with Kha Kahn in regards to his comments about things being turned onto the critics if they see a “window”. We all know how good the organization is at manipulating situations to its advantage.

    As an Ex I do not condone life threatening actions by anyone towards members of the organization or anyone else, regardless of whatever this sword wielders “beef” may or may not be.
  10. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    One wonders if the rhetoric and invective thrown around by the anon could have provoked this poor guy to go off the deep end and show up with swords...
  11. klidov

    klidov Silver Meritorious Patron

  12. Lovesnightsky

    Lovesnightsky Silver Meritorious Patron

    You would, wouldn't you.
    The answer is NO. Anon is publicly pro legal actions and non violence, which is why this (me) ex scientologist supports them.
  13. klidov

    klidov Silver Meritorious Patron

    quite a stretch there, alex :duh:
  14. Lohan2008

    Lohan2008 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Samarai Jack

    the Church of Scientolgy will tarnish the victim's reputation, just so they can say anyone who attacks Scientology must be crazy :nervous:
  15. Good twin

    Good twin Floater

    Exactly! Why does a church need security guards? And why are ex members showing up with swords? It may not make critics look good, but critics only exist because there is something more to know about the cult.

    Funny, but when I was in I felt that any publicity was "good". Now I feel the same way. Anything that gets people to look and question what is going on in the cult is good.

  16. Lovesnightsky

    Lovesnightsky Silver Meritorious Patron

    It's a two edge sword... no punt intended. If they say he was crazy then they run the risk of it coming out that they, and their dangerous mental practices, drove him crazy.
  17. Pascal

    Pascal Silver Meritorious Patron


    What ever happened to tazers and pepper spray?

    A nice PR flap for DM to handle.

    So much for a safe space for the "movers and shakers of the world".

    Life is putting in ethics on CoS on a gradient it seems.

    Things will get uglier in time until DM and his out-ethics culture are banished.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  18. Kha Khan

    Kha Khan Patron Meritorious

    Because it is the victim of religious bigotry and discrimination that has now reached the level of physical violence.

    Violence which people here are apprently reluctant to condemn and distance themselves from.
    If you make this argument, you will be perceived a blaming the victim.
  19. Lohan2008

    Lohan2008 Gold Meritorious Patron


    {Sarcasm} but CoS is the most ethical group on the planet, it is EVERYONE else who does not understand
  20. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Is this your opinion or what you think will be put forward?
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