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Scientology security kills man with sword

Discussion in 'Legal and Government Actions Involving Scientology' started by iaxiloll, Nov 23, 2008.

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  1. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    I was being sarcastic.

    It was the royal we if you want.

    I dont personally know of ANY LAPD who are scientologists although I would guess there are a few.
     
  2. NonScio

    NonScio Patron Meritorious

    As far as that goes, suggesting that Anon somehow inspired this man,
    you may just as well say that he was set off by watching
    "The Seven Samurai", or "Teenage Ninja Turtles".
    Maybe he was inspired by the light swords of the Jedi Knights
    fighting the evil empire in "Star Wars".

    As far as the man being a threat...anyone walking around with
    a samurai sword in L.A. is a kook, but, well..it IS L.A.!

    He may have been a kook dramatizing God knows what...
    but probably not much more kooky than the Hollywood types
    that the celebrity center is designed to snare into the cult.
    One witness did mention that he thought it was all part of some
    show. Crazy scenes at the "center", it seems, are not all that
    unusual.
     
  3. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I strongly suspect that he had recently watched the Highlander movie, and felt the quickening while driving by the Church, and decided "there can be only one". Turned out, he wasn't that one.
     
  4. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think they appropriate reference would be Raiders of the Lost Arc where the guy with the swords is quickly shot by Harrison Ford. But I guess this guy didn't watch that.
     
  5. klidov

    klidov Silver Meritorious Patron


    (OT-if that had been the Kurgan with those swords, the $cis wouldn't have had a chance)

    *sigh* Kurgan

    O.K.-back to the discussion at hand......:coolwink:
     
  6. Kookaburra

    Kookaburra Gold Meritorious Patron

    By WHAT anon??? Alex, you're really pushing the boundaries of known facts here.

    Then perhaps this is a sign that you have been in Scientology for too long.

    It seems to me that you are making a great effort to distract and derail this thread. Stop trolling!
     
  7. Spirited

    Spirited Patron with Honors

    Of course CC is a vatican. Lets not get carried away with the Vatican thing here as something literal.
    Aside from the Swiss Guard, The Vatican also has a Civilian security force that protects its personnel, treasures etc. however Its neither here nor there. Maybe I should have mentioned the “Oscars” or something. No offense meant by any stretch.

    My point was that ANYWHERE where there are “Celebrities” there will be armed security.
    Definition of a celebrity? A person who is an opinion leader in their field, it is not just isolated to the Arts.

    My comment was merely in response to earlier posts regarding the surprise at a security guard packing a gun at CC Int.
    Anywhere where there are High profile celebrities, diplomats, money, sensitive Information, opinion leaders etc, there will be armed security. It’s the norm across the world.
    CC Int is a building that is supposedly frequented by “celebrities” and holds sensitive information etc and falls into above category because of this. That’s all I was actually saying on it.

    Regarding the incident itself, the Truth is We don’t have all the facts on it at this stage and do not know which way the media will go. Its all speculation at the moment. I dont want to get into banters about it personally. :)
    I don’t have enough data to pass judgment on the situation at hand, I just don’t condone violence toward members of the organization or anyone else.
     
  8. Spirited

    Spirited Patron with Honors

    is NOt a vatican is what I meant to say
     
  9. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yeah speculation on stuff like this kills me. At this point nobody has a clue what was going through this guy's mind and the odds of being wrong are about 99.999%.
     
  10. Kookaburra

    Kookaburra Gold Meritorious Patron

    Kha Khan makes some very sensible points here. I think we should all heed.

    Much as Co$ would have loved it if the guy that got shot was a leader of Anonymous trying to 'terrorise' the Church, he wasn't.

    Much as the critics would have loved it if it had been a Scilon security guard overeacting to some kid with a cardboard sword, it wasn't.

    From facts determined so far, it was a hired security guard appropriately responding to a very real threat from an obviously disturbed individual.

    What caused that individual to be so upset remains to be seen.

    Wild speculation doesn't help anyone.
     
  11. klidov

    klidov Silver Meritorious Patron

    I have the radio on. A Clear-Channel Station near Tampa. It is now our "top story".

    The guard "shot the man protecting himself, and two other people".

    That is the official line.
     
  12. Once bitten

    Once bitten Patron Meritorious

    ^^^^^THIS^^^^^

    Alex, I don't know what you hope to achieve from your posts, but they certainly don't help the situation. No one knows what drove this guy to do this.
     
  13. Rmack

    Rmack Van Allen Belt Sunbather

    Remember, the early reports mention him somehow being connected to the cult, but that it was "unclear" how. Whatever he was freaking out about almost certainly involves Sci. It wasn't just a random nutjob.
     
  14. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    The issue to be determined is "was lethal force justified?".

    We know how the cult will spin it, and that they are joined at the hip with LAPD, so a fair hearing is not likely.

    From: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/lethalforce.html

    "If he isn't trying to kill you right now, you aren't justified to use lethal force.

    It doesn't matter if he is standing there screaming and threatening to kill you, or if has said that he is going to come back and get you or -- in many states -- has just pointed a gun at you, demanded your wallet and is now running away -- those are not considered "immediate threat of death or grave bodily injury." Because he isn't trying to kill you at that exact moment.

    Not understanding the meaning of this term will put you in prison for murder. At the very least it will endanger everything you own to litigation....and, odds are, you will lose if you pulled the trigger at the wrong time.

    In theory, someone standing across the room waving a knife threatening to kill you isn't offering you an immediate threat. Which means that you cannot legally shoot him. On the other hand, when he starts charging across the room, then you are in immediate and immanent danger of death or previous bodily harm. The reason being is that a knife is a close range weapon and by rushing at you, he is now capable of harming you. Now granted his brandishing the weapon in a threatening manner is in and of itself a crime, but not enough to warrant shooting him."

    IANAL

    YMMV
     
  15. Rmack

    Rmack Van Allen Belt Sunbather

    I have.

    Just a few months ago, not sure how long, maybe about a year, some guy invaded a Christian church in Colorado with a previously written intent to kill many people, and after only killing three (I think) was killed by an undercover female security guard. More churches have them than you might think.

    This was handgun versus handgun, though.

    What pissed me off is the fact that the main stream media first garbled the story, claiming the guy shot himself, then had to backpedal when the facts started coming out on the internet. There where other details distorted that amounted to deliberate spin.

    You see, the Powers That Be want guns-especially handguns-to be seen as evil, (except in the hands of state controlled police) and didn't want any stories about lives being saved by courageous ARMED private citizens.

    Today's shooting sounds rock solidly a good shooting. I bet it was suicide by cop, or in this case security officer, as has been previously suggested.

    I agree with everything Kha Khan has said. This positions Sci as being the innocent persecuted victim defending itself from crazies.

    If you're so ignorant as to not be kept away from the cult by the mass of info negative of it, a little heroic security guard shooting isn't going to change your mind!
     
  16. Maybe he had out-lists. Maybe he had an MU. Maybe he had a miswithold. I remember once Alex, that you were put off about speculations about something people were suggesting about the Church (rightly so at the time).
    What I know is that I don't know. I don't think I'll ever know. I listen for the facts as they are released, and then take everything into consideration. But speculation without data can lead to witch hunting and superstition. My first thought is that it is not something that happens everyday. Wait and see, and then form an opinion.

    The Anabaptist Jacques
     
  17. Rmack

    Rmack Van Allen Belt Sunbather

    :clap:

    That has got to be one of the top ten best moments in cinema.
     
  18. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yeah some of the non Americans here may not realize how many guns are in the US. It doesn't do you much good to compare it to other places. But even the Pope was shot once or was it twice? In any case the tension is high now and the fact that scio guards carry guns now makes that clear. I really don't remember if they carried them when I was there. But I noticed things getting a lot more serious the last time I went to CC and a guy asked for my name just to walk on the property. That was a first. But this is a place frequented by some pretty famous people so it shouldn't really surprise anyone that they hire independents with guns as there is no shortage of "nutjobs" in Hollywood. But the fact that this was an ex does make it more damaging to scio than if he wasn't IMO, if that is true. Why would the church need to defend itself from former members? To me that is different from anon. It should draw some questions and who knows what they will find. Maybe they will find some letter in his apartment who knows? But I think most will see this as an isolated incident and not really make much of a generalization about it. And just one of the thousand cuts that will bring this place down.
     
  19. ScudMuffin

    ScudMuffin Silver Meritorious Patron

    The Church Of England.

    Seriously, there was an instance of a guy over here running into the middle of a service stark naked and with a Katana.

    It's nothing new over here, we don't have firearms that readily available (since the Dunblaine and Hungerford massacres) so you can't shoot up an entire street after going batshit, but you can grab a machette or a sword or whatever.

    There was an incident in handsworth/Lozells where some nutter grabbed a machette and went mental down the high street, the same city as me.
     
  20. ScudMuffin

    ScudMuffin Silver Meritorious Patron

    Vatican City - Swiss Army Unit

    Various UK Mosques - Armed Police Guard
     
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