Scientology's End - less wishful thinking please

[Veda]

That would be interesting, but I think my point is still valid. Even if the current corporate church went down, a new one would be created by the faithful to follow LRH policy, most likely, perhaps even by some of the same people who created RTC. Nothing could be done to stop that, really, even if the old corporate entity owed money, the new one would not, any more than Christianity would be ended if the Children of God were destroyed. It would be a victory over this incarnation of the Church, but without a change to the amendment, nothing stops the next Church of Reformed Scientology to start. Certainly, RTC's death would be entertaining, and the current Church of Scientology would be destroyed, but you can't kill an idea. I would grant that without their current money and corporate structure, they would be unable to do the harm to people that they are currently doing, though.

Wow. You're really in some agreement with the "Scientology is a religion" meme. Forgive me for asking, but does that, at least in part, derive from your association with Sarge Gerbode, signer of the 'Peace in the valley' settlement agreement? I ask, at the risk of seeming rude, as Scientology Inc. fights "wars of attrition" - a little bit here, a little bit there.

Since the "religion" meme is being forwarded on this thread, both by yourself, and by the op, I'll drop this handy re-post as a reminder to those lurkers who might be interested.


Video on Religious cloaking - the affidavit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZvqeGrbILw

The complete document:

http://www.lermanet.com/reference/brennan-dec.pdf

__________

Excerpt from the above video/affidavit on

RELIGIOUS CLOAKING

7. Based on years of work in the senior most legal bodies of organized scientology as covered above I have dealt with directly or supervised the handling of hundreds of legal matters involving the organizations of scientology which directly or indirectly had to do with using religious cloaking...

8. It was determined that the only way to handle many of the legal matters in front of us and still apply Hubbard’s policies that had to do with staff, ethics, sales of services, money, delivery of services and the like was to develop and use a religious cloaking saying scientology was a religion, its services religious, its staff members of religious orders and the like. I can state without doubt that the overwhelming main reason that organized scientology developed and pushed its religious cloaking was to avoid a myriad of real or potential legal problems that would exist by following Hubbard’s policies if it were not considered a religion. By developing this religious cloaking for organized scientology it was hoped to avoid legal requirements around the world that might otherwise have to be followed that would make it impossible to follow Hubbard’s policies. In developing the religious cloaking for organized scientology, the following were considered a few of the “benefits” so that Hubbard policies could be applied. There are countless examples but the below are listed simply as a few of them:

(i) minimum wages would not have to be paid;

(ii) staff could be sent to different parts of the world and be able to stay locally as religious workers;

(iii) standard employee rights, such as those found in laws like the Fair Labor Standards Act, could be discarded and thus Hubbard policies involving such things as ethics conditions, the Rehabilitation Project Force and the like could be applied without outside interference;

(iv) less scrutiny would be allowed on the controls of the funds of scientology and the intermingling of funds between the corporations and other legal fictions of organized scientology;

(v) it was hoped that the treatment of public scientologists and the use of their funds would be considered outside the purview of governmental bodies;

(vi) couching the demand for and flow of monies within organized scientology using “religious” terms (such as by saying that clear cut mandatory payments for services were “fixed donations” and were mandated by the scripture of “exchange”) was hoped to cut off attempts by governments and others to look into them further...


11. Two of the things that organized scientology felt were of the most importance in order to avoid compliance with many laws that were contrary to Hubbard policy were the religious cloaking as covered above and a corporate restructuring to make it very difficult if not impossible for outsiders to ever get to the main assets of organized scientology and to ensure that the real leaders of organized scientology could be insulated from legal liability by hiding their real controls behind a myriad of corporate and other legal veils. It was considered both a defensive and offensive strategy to have such cloaking (religious and corporate) in place.

Defensively it makes it very difficult for individuals or even governments to force legal compliance of the many types of laws as covered above. It also makes it almost impossible to hold those that really control organized scientology responsible legally or to get to the financial assets of organized scientology spread out around the world. Offensively, it gives organized scientology a “safe base” from which to attack critics and/or anyone it feels is its enemy. Hiding behind religious cloaking and corporate veils it can act as a victim when people point out its crimes and injustices calling them “religious bigots” and even scaring governments, many of whom are not supposed to get involved with “religious matters”. By calling policies by Hubbard or Miscavige that are otherwise abusive or contrary to law “religious scripture” it was hoped to avoid legal scrutiny of same.




_________​

___________​

Quoted posts by others from Ex Scientologist Message Board are in sienna (brown).

By Rmack:

I just had to vent a little about a pet peeve I have. People who, even though critical of this cult, still call it a church.

It's well documented that the whole church facade was taken on by Laffy for the benefits it bestowed, like potential tax exemption, the e-meter being protected as a 'religious artifact' to avoid being prosecuted for using it to treat medical conditions, etc. They went from being a clinic with 'doctors' to a religion with 'ministers', but the practices stayed pretty much the same.

Scientology is a money making fraudulent cult, not a church.

I like the adage attributed to Abraham Lincoln that goes 'How many legs does a dog have, if you call the tail a leg? Answer; four. Calling the tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.'

__________​

Tax exempt status had been sought by Hubbard since he first launched his "religion angle," complete with ministers in clerical collars, crosses on "Churches," and the accompanying benign-sounding 'Creed of the Church of Scientology', meant to invite agreement from "wogs," as they were "gradiently" led into agreement with the idea that Scientology is a "religion."


It's the religion angle and religious cloaking that allow Scientology to get away with so much fraudulent and abusive behavior.

___________​

Video about the IRS deal with Scientology:

[video=youtube;ewQ8bgMMqnQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ewQ8bgMMqnQ[/video]

__________​

From Hubbard Communication Office Policy Letter of October 1962, 'Religion':

"Scientology 1970 is being planned on a religious organization basis throughout the world. This will not upset in any way the usual activities of any organizations. It is entirely a matter for accountants and solicitors."


This man was convicted of "interfering with a religion," for picketing outside Scientology's heavily armed, razor-wire enclosed, base outside Hemet, California. He was sent to jail.

Here's the law on the case: http://lists.ucla.edu/pipermail/religionlaw/2001-May/002573.html (Thanks, Teanntas.)

__________​

From Dulloldfart:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scientology_organizations

Principal Organizations
Religious Technology Center (RTC)
Church of Spiritual Technology (CST)
Church of Scientology International (CSI)
Church of Scientology of California (CSC)

Trademark Service Organizations
Inspector General Network (IGN)
IGN International AB
Dianetics Centers International (DCI)
Dianetics Foundation International (DFI)
Hubbard Dianetics Foundation (HDF)
WISE, Inc.

Financial Trusts
Author's Family Trust
Church of Scientology Religious Trust (CSRT)
Scientology International Reserves Trust (SIRT)
Trust for Scientologists
United States Parishioners Trust
Flag Ship Trust (FST)
International Publications Trust
Scientology Defense Trust

Financial Service Organizations
SOR Services Ltd.
Nesta Investments Ltd.
FSO Oklahoma Investments Corporation
Theta Management Ltd. (TML)

Publishing Houses & Publication Organizations
Golden Era Productions
Author Services Inc. (ASI)
Bridge Publications Inc. (BPI)
New Era Publications ApS
Scientology Publications Ltd.

Secular & Social Management Entities
Association for Better Living and Education International (ABLE)
Applied Scholastics Inc.
Citizens Commission on Human Rights International (CCHR)
Criminon International
Narconon International
Way to Happiness Foundation International
World Institute of Scientology Enterprises International (WISE)

Other Management Organizations
Church of Scientology Celebrity Centre International (CC Int.)
International Hubbard Ecclesiastical League of Pastors (IHELP)
Scientology Missions International (SMI)

Service Organizations
<snip mostly Church names>

Membership Organizations

Unincorporated Associations
International Association of Scientologists (IAS)
Hubbard Association of Scientologists International (HASI)

Membership Service Organizations
International Association of Scientologists Administrations, N.V. (IASA)
Membership Services Administrations (UK) Ltd. (MSA)​

There are 41 names there, only 5 of which include the C-word. Local service orgs in the US and other religion-favouring countries usually include the C-word, and in countries that don't favour religions they don't. Expediency reigns supreme.

Question for any residents of the "non" countries: when the cult hits the news there, is the main organization ever referred to, or is it just the name of the local branch? For example, does the media in Russia ever refer to CSI spokeperson Karin Pouw by name and title?

Paul

__________​

Scientology has a decades long history of using the "religion angle" and "religious cloaking" to gain advantage, and to exempt itself from inspection and from laws.

Scientology is a for-profit blackmail-collecting global scam masquerading as a religion.

Prof. Steven Kent on 'Is Scientology a Religion?':

http://www.bible.ca/scientology-not-religion-kent.htm


Those who dislike religion, and think they're criticizing Scientology by criticizing religion, are being tricked by Hubbard's religion angle, and Scientology's religious cloaking, every bit as much as those who like religion and defer to Scientology because it's a "religion."


It's rare to encounter a Scientologist who knows what Scientology is, not because they're stupid, but because Scientology discourages its followers from finding out what it actually is and, ultimately, places them in a state of mind where they don't want to know even when they have the opportunity.

A few bus loads of people such as this are useful for Public Relation purposes, especially when they are wearing big yellow Scientology is my religion buttons.

These are the well-intentioned dupes, and are an essential component of the Scientology charade.


Responding to the assertion by another poster that Scientology's status as a (tax exempt, and exempt from various laws) "Church" is a "done deal":

_________​

From Div6:

I'm with Veda on this. Only in the US is it anywhere near "a done deal". In mexico it is a "philosophical society."

___________​

From Senator Nick Xenophon:

What we are seeing is a worldwide pattern of abuse and criminality... On the body of evidence, this is not happening by accident; it is happening by design.


In 1955, L. Ron Hubbard secretly authored this booklet http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?2697-Table-of-Contents-Psychopolitics-revisited to be used as a black propaganda vehicle for attacking his critics, by identifying them with Russian Communism. Some years later, the booklet slowly faded into obscurity. It was no longer useful as a propaganda vehicle. During the period of the Vietnam war, Hubbard had decided that "Nazi," not "Communist," was a more effective "button" to push, to influence public opinion to Scientology's advantage. Another reason for this booklet fading into obscurity was that Hubbard was now using many of its ideas and methods on his own followers, and on others. Hubbard had been doing this for many years prior, but it was now intensified. These ideas and methods are interwoven into Scientology doctrine, and integral to that doctrine.

Senator Nick Xenophon continued:

Scientology is not a religious organisation. It is a criminal organisation that hides behind its so-called religious beliefs.


It's noteworthy that the first official body to recognize Hubbard's use of this booklet's ideas and methods was from Australia in the 1960s and, now, another Australian official is continuing the tradition of insightful and courageous truth-telling regarding the secretive cult of Scientology.

__________​

From Free to shine:

Why not just call it scientology???

I have never called it a church and I never will. I don't even use a capital S unless it's the start of a sentence. I was there when it was decided that it should be a religion, and I know what a farce it was.

I think it's only those who feel the need to be politically correct who use the word "Church", in the media and so on to avoid getting dogpiled for 'religious discrimination'.

_________​

From Lermanet:

In 1994, one of the used (Im not saying correct, just one of methods used) ways to guess who was either OSA or duped by osa or too dumb to be of any worth to the expose scientology movement anyway, was to see if they could say "XENU"...

Ten years later, the rule of thumb *I* use, on all except for the very-newest-escapees, to determine this is DO THEY CALL IT A CHURCH or refer to it as a RELIGION. I feel it works for me, you're mileage may vary.

Thoroughly understanding the materials collected on my RELIGIOUS CLOAKING PAGE leads to the inescapable conclusion that $cientology is an elaborate hypnotic FRAUD that has been CLOAKED using RELIGIOUS CLOAKING.



This point is not lost on their own lawyers, and thorough application of such comprehensions demonstrated here.. in the last time $cientology tried to depose me in 1997 at the Law Offices of Mr Sinclair in Alexandria Virginia, a camera had been set up to video this, if you want proof ask OSA to post this video:
DEPOSITION STARTS
Clam lawyer Rosen asked: Mr Lerma, why do you continue to say bad things about the Church of Scientology???

Lerma: Mr Rosen, in your question, are you referring to the international psychopolitical terrorist organization running a rapidly shrinking but still brisk fraud upon innocent citizens worldwide dba scientology and related entities and front groups???

Rosen (Face gets red) said (acting angry) (waving arms around) : Mr. Lerma, you can't describe the CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY that way.

Lerma: Mr Rosen are trying to trick me into committing perjury on your behalf?

Rosen: This deposition is OVER.

THE END.

__________​

Because it's protected as a religion... it's able to get away with a lot of things.

Lawrence Wright, 2013

__________​

"Scientology 1970 is being planned on a religious organization basis throughout the world. This will not upset in any way the usual activities of any organization. It is entirely a matter for accountants and solicitors."

L. Ron Hubbard, 1962

__________​

Hard Sell, a.k.a. Crush Sell, has been part of Scientology since the 1960s. The idea is that people ("wogs," "Homo Saps," "Raw meat" and, apparently, even Scientologists) are naturally in a sort of hypnotic daze, and will respond to being told what to do, if that telling is done effectively.

__________​

"Make money. Make more money. Make other people produce so as to make more money." L. Ron Hubbard, 1972

__________​

Hubbard's "religion angle" and "religious cloaking" were aimed largely at achieving tax exempt status. When this occurred in the USA in 1993, the kind of pure-money-sucking that's now done in Scientology became realistic. Donations to Scientology are tax exempt, and those donating can make deductions on their income tax returns. In effect, the United Sates government is supporting the Scientology cult, just as Hubbard had envisioned.

However, even before the Scientology money-sucking vacuum cleaner engine was turned on full, Hard Sell was going strong in the "Church" of Scientology.

__________​

"He [Hubbard] stated [that] coming ashore would be profitable, because we could get so many more people to the Flag Land Base, as it was to be called, for auditing and training, and he wanted to concentrate on getting professionals to the Land Base because, of course, they had more accessible money. They had pension funds. They had children's education funds, and some of these he named, that were accessible."

Hana Eltringham, from the 'Secret Lives' BBC program:

See 3:20: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhULw6qarW4


"He [Hubbard] told me he was obsessed with an insatiable lust for power and money. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn't get enough."

David Mayo, 1986, from an interview with author Russell Miller

_________​

Author Lawrence Wright, from a recent interview:

In 1993, the "Church" owed a billion dollars in back taxes. They had decided not to pay taxes, and desperately needed a tax exemption or they would go out of business. We would not be talking about the "Church of Scientology" if they had not gotten an IRS tax exemption.

David Miscavige [had] launched 2,300 lawsuits against the IRS, and individual agents, hired private investigators to follow individual agents around, and part of the deal, whatever the merits of the case, was that the IRS would give the "Church" tax exemption, forgive the billion dollars, and the "Church" would call off the private investigators, and drop the lawsuits...

When the IRS made that determination, then the protections of the first amendment, freedom of religion clause, came into play, and those are vast protections, and it's because of those protections that the "Church" is able to operate today...

__________​

One of those followed around by private investigators was the IRS Commissioner, and the topic of the possible blackmailing of the IRS Commissioner, is another disturbing area.

__________


This is the person who runs Scientology Inc.

Scientology Inc. claims to be a "religious institution."​

 

[FascinatedNeverIn]

Is that supposed to be news? Scientology Inc. has always been a weird little cult. Unfortunately, it's affected many thousands of people, and some of them seek help and information and, sometimes, communication.

You're miniscule. Does your life matter?

I bet you feel that it does, and you're right to feel that way.

Funny how that works out.

Hi - I was primarily addressing the hype about the end of Scientology. I wasn't calling into question the righteous indignation of those wronged by the church. I want the end of Scientology to come quickly; I just thought people were going a bit overboard at their descriptions of its demise.

 

[FascinatedNeverIn]

Wow. You're really in some agreement

Snippingtons!

Am I reading you correctly that you are taking umbrage at the definition of Scientology as a religion?

I'm not sure I really held it up as a religion in my posts. It's not a religion in my opinion. It is a bastard of Mr Self and Miss Help that's decided to rob its parents and has barricaded itself in a squat and dares not touch the light switch.

 

[Veda]

Am I reading you correctly that you are taking umbrage at the definition of Scientology as a religion?

I'm not sure I really held it up as a religion in my posts. It's not a religion in my opinion. It is a bastard of Mr Self and Miss Help that's decided to rob its parents and has barricaded itself in a squat and dares not touch the light switch.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Veda]

Hi - I was primarily addressing the hype about the end of Scientology. I wasn't calling into question the righteous indignation of those wronged by the church. I want the end of Scientology to come quickly; I just thought people were going a bit overboard at their descriptions of its demise.

Thanks again for the clarification.

Yes, people have been excitedly predicting the end of Scientology Inc., since the late 1970s.

It's one of those things.

 

[uniquemand]

Wow. You're really in some agreement with the "Scientology is a religion" meme. Forgive me for asking, but does that, at least in part, derive from your association with Sarge Gerbode, signer of the 'Peace in the valley' settlement agreement? I ask, at the risk of seeming rude, as Scientology Inc. fights "wars of attrition" - a little bit here, a little bit there.

No, the reason I mention "the religion angle" is that it demonstrates that religion is essentially undefined, legally, and therefore, Scientology will be back if you destroy one of it's corporate incarnations. I don't see a way around this other than revision of the 1st Amendment, and I don't see that happening, though I would welcome it.

I am quite proud of my association with Gerbode, regardless of your insinuations. I appreciate any information you can bring to bear on this, but I don't like the associations and implications you're drawing, and I don't appreciate your attribution of intentions to me based on these unsubstantiated insinuations. If you want to ask me a question, please stop beating your wife, first.

 

[Gib]

The OP seems to be making the point that why is anyone on this board or anywhere else bothering with such a piss-ant, insignificant cult that has no real effect on the world at large? My answer to that is:

(1) if the work by the ex's and critics above had never happened, the Church would not now be an exposed, dying creature - so thank god for them!;

(2) there is an extremely cathartic effect in speaking out, even if just on an internet chat forum, for those who used to be in and had their communication and lives suppressed for so many years - it really does help to get it all out and be acknowledged by others who have been in the same boat;

(3) now that it is dying - and it really is dead and just doesn't know it yet - it's fun to watch it go down for the count. And some of us still secretly harbor the belief that maybe, just maybe, we can reconnect some day with lost family and friends and significant others, so we keep track of what is going on.

Those are my two cents.

(1) the numbers of people speaking out is going straight up & vertical expansion. The first step seems to be "underground".

(2) the talk therapy is finally working

(3) one day there will be nobody left in orgs and missions, and thus no more recruitments to the SO, and one day the local ordinances will shut down the orgs and missions for tax liens. Governments won't have to do something other than the tax liens. Plus electricity, water, garbage bills will pile up and they will lien.

Hubbard was right, the most powerful form of advertising is word of mouth. And the internet and message boards and blogs provide word of mouth, ESMB doesn't advertise, nor does Mike, Africa, Marty, Tony blogs, etc.

 

[Veda]

-snip-

I am quite proud of my association with Gerbode, regardless of your insinuations. I appreciate any information you can bring to bear on this, but I don't like the associations and implications you're drawing, and I don't appreciate your attribution of intentions to me based on these unsubstantiated insinuations. If you want to ask me a question, please stop beating your wife, first.

I don't think you're pushing the "Scientology is a religion" meme with malicious intent, and, IMO, it was a reasonable question to ask about where you picked it up.

 

[uniquemand]

I don't think you're pushing the Scientology is a religion meme with malicious intent, and, IMO, it was a reasonable question to ask.

Reasonable, perhaps, but I'd like to think you'd picked my brain enough over the years to know my character. Perhaps I was mistaken. However, the way you've worded this response leads me to think that you believe I am an unwitting dupe of Dr. Gerbode, who has entered into a dark pact with the Church of Scientology to destroy David Mayo and act as a front for the Corporate Church.

 

[Chris Shelton]

Hi - I was primarily addressing the hype about the end of Scientology. I wasn't calling into question the righteous indignation of those wronged by the church. I want the end of Scientology to come quickly; I just thought people were going a bit overboard at their descriptions of its demise.

A few months ago, I posted something very similar to what you are saying here in this thread, FascinatedNeverIn, but I would like to point out some facts and figures for you from Mike Rinder's blog over the past few days that have caused me to re-evaluate this position. Rinder posted the WUS and EUS OTC stats and reports for the past quarter. They are dismal, near flat-line. The end of the Church really is here at our doorstep. It does not have decades left in its current form. It truly is disappearing right before our very eyes.

While the stories of those who are leaving and the rumor lines are fun to read and certainly interesting, the blog articles and other statistical indicators more than anything else I've seen in recent times, give real credence to the fact that the Church at a Class V org level truly is dead. Scientology internationally is contracting its actions and activities down to the Sea Org bases only and is pretty much giving up on trying to do anything effective or real with the Class V sector. This isn't hype or "positive thinking" but a matter of actual statistical record over the past few years. GAT II is just more PR glitz to keep the "clubbed seals" satisfied that something is happening somewhere, but it's not intended to really do anything for the Class V orgs except give them an excuse to keep their doors open for another year or two.

I don't think it's wishful thinking at this point to predict the impending demise of this organization. It's not going to happen this year or next or even the one after. It's got a lot of inertia from the past decades and there are still tens of thousands of members including the die-hard SO staff. But I have more reason right now than ever before to be encouraged about its lack of longevity. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Veda]

Reasonable, perhaps, but I'd like to think you'd picked my brain enough over the years to know my character.

-snip-

I'm not questioning your character. I have a high opinion of your character.

 

[FascinatedNeverIn]

No, the reason I mention "the religion angle" is that it demonstrates that religion is essentially undefined, legally, and therefore, Scientology will be back if you destroy one of it's corporate incarnations. I don't see a way around this other than revision of the 1st Amendment, and I don't see that happening, though I would welcome it.

I don't know the finer points of your constitution.

As an atheist, I feel no non-secular organisation should have tax breaks because of a belief. I don't see why 'established imagination' should have an upper hand legally over other people doing good work who don't have a special friend in their mind.

Coca-Cola could re-invent themselves as a religion, claiming the ingestion of their sugary drinks moves one closer to God and put it in their sacred texts, cunningly disseminated in magazines as 'adverts'.

Same amount of evidence as Jesus rising from the dead.

Religion should rise and fall on its own merits, not by special protection. It merely shows how weak their arguments are if they need their big brother to fight their battles for them.

 

[uniquemand]

I'm not questioning your character. I have a high opinion of your character.

Well, at least I'm a well-meaning dupe.

I'll leave off. I think you're well-meaning as well.

 

[David C Gibbons]

I take the OP's point. In tune with that, I tell friends and acquaintances that Scientology is a "miserable little cult". I do this in the hope that my little individual efforts will combine with those of all the others who wish for Scientology's failure to at least keep more people from being damaged by it. Indeed, Scientology is tiny from the global or national perspective, but it loomed/looms large in our lives. We hate it.

I also agree with the OP that the ideas of Scientology may well persist for a long time. The best counter-agent I can think of is for those of us that know the true nature of Scientology to keep telling our stories. It is what we can do. Wishful thinking may be unavoidable, and I'm not going to knock people for indulging in it. That is one of the things that keeps humanity going.

 

[Gib]

I don't know the finer points of your constitution.

As an atheist, I feel no non-secular organisation should have tax breaks because of a belief.

I don't see why 'established imagination' should have an upper hand legally over other people doing good work who don't have a special friend in their mind.

Coca-Cola could re-invent themselves as a religion, claiming the ingestion of their sugary drinks moves one closer to God and put it in their sacred texts, cunningly disseminated in magazines as 'adverts'.

Same amount of evidence as Jesus rising from the dead.

Religion should rise and fall on its own merits, not by special protection. It merely shows how weak their arguments are if they need their big brother to fight their battles for them.

I luv it.



Say, have you been reading "History of Man"?

 

[secretiveoldfag]

I would like to do something concrete to counter wishful thinking. I have no sources outside ESMB and can't contribute much but believe it might be convincing to compile a list of the end-of-time changes. We need to confirm them but here are a few to start the ball rolling.

1. Decline and fall in South Africa up to and including bankruptcy of Joburg Org.

https://backincomm.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/pretorias-heydays-over-before-they-began/

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...amp-purposes-bankrupt-Pretoria-Org-in-trouble


2. No Freewind's Maiden Voyage Anniversary Event in 2012 or 2013; usually every year in St Lucia and Barbados or thereabouts. Personal observation, to be confirmed.

3. Superpower opening: some 1500 (or less) went all that way to sit in the rain and listen to the Tiny Hero speak for 8 minutes (or less). Personal observation shared with >9000.

4. EUS and WUS leaked figures currently on ESMB (originally from Mike Rinder).

Galactic Patrol, on this thread
A few months ago, I posted something very similar to what you are saying here in this thread, FascinatedNeverIn, but I would like to point out some facts and figures for you from Mike Rinder's blog over the past few days that have caused me to re-evaluate this position. Rinder posted the WUS and EUS OTC stats and reports for the past quarter. They are dismal, near flat-line. The end of the Church really is here at our doorstep. It does not have decades left in its current form. It truly is disappearing right before our very eyes.

.

5. Profit.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

As time goes on a couple of analogies come to mind, not necessarily fully adequate one or two keep coming up as regards scientology or cults.

One is a circle or even a descending spiral. It is though scientology is like a circle, where each point has an opposite and moving along the circle can only be done by following a curved contracting path and if a person goes around more than once that person moves to the center and becomes a single Hubbardian mind/point of view.

The other is a dirty toilet. but dressed up as a powder room. It may be a place to get some temporary relief, but it is not a good place to hang around for long. It needs to be flushed often. It might contain some components that eventually could become nutrients if highly filtered through nature and reconstituted as in shit is used as plant fertilizer but is not healthy to human beings in fact it is filled with toxicity. As it is, it is a toxic place, like all toilets/cults and is not a healthy next to set up the the dinner table or store your tooth brush.

LOL

still trying to get rid of that necessity part...that ruins the analogy...lol

 

[Freeminds]

I suspect that it's going to be "not with a bang, but a whimper." One day, we'll just look back and see that Hubbardism is over. The weird offshoots aren't a sign that Hubbardism will continue in its Cheapzone guise... they're just fragmentation, like how a sheet of ice breaks up into little bits and pieces, as it thaws.

The thaw is already underway. Do I believe that the funds will be recovered? No... probably not. Do I think that the right people will go to jail? No... at least, not enough of them. But the drip, drip, drip of Scientology melting away, that's music to my ears. Because it shows that the world is becoming a better, healthier and happier place.

I have no power to do anything about Syria, or the OP's "big stuff" that affects the mainstream world, but I can help to clean up some of Hubbard's nasty little mess. So why not?

Now, I could be wrong about Scientology fading away quietly. Who imagined that Michael Jackson would suddenly die, in June 2009? I mean, sure, he was FUBAR and his behaviour gave us a number of causes for concern, but Jackson had been weird for years. He looked set to continue as a celebrity gossip punchbag for many years to come... and all of a sudden, he was dead. Now, Scientology: that's weird and in legal trouble, too. And it's none too rational, and tries to fools itself and the world about what it is. So Scientology might be the next Michael Jackson. We assume we're in for a long, drawn-out, ugly descent into scandal and bankruptcy... but it might just drop down dead, like Michael Jackson did.

Which is rather like when somebody unplugs your TV just as the film you've been watching for the last two hours is building towards a big finish, and you say "Hey! I was watching that..." That tryst between Lady Di and Dodi Fayed was getting interesting, too...

With a bang or a whimper? Who knows. But Scientology-watching has seldom been more rewarding than 2013.

 

[Gib]

With a bang or a whimper? Who knows. But Scientology-watching has seldom been more rewarding than 2013

.

I hoping 2014 will the year of the remaining of the OT7's & OT8's fly off of the merry-go-round.

Scientology, where the scientologist is the last to know.

or however HH puts it.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Scn ? Put a fork in it.

Next please.