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Discussion in 'Staff "War Stories"' started by Karen#1, Sep 28, 2011.

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  1. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Mark Bunker came back and spent another day with me
    to get the stories of what goes on inside the "CHURCH"
    This is a teaser


    For 25 years girl at Int base were forced to have abortions at Planned Parenthood in Riverside. Sometimes it was as many as 5 a week

    The reality of coerced abortions

    In 1997, (on a German TV show )~~ it was revealed that in response to the high volume of Scientology staff sent to have abortions, the head of Planned Parenthood in Riverside, CA (Janet Honn-Alex) said, "I just felt that it was strange that they would all make the same decision. Independent of their individual circumstances, they had all made the decision to have an abortion, no matter how old they were or how many children they already had. We found that almost unbelievable. And when we started asking more questions, in order to find out their individual motives, because we were suspicious, they stopped coming to us altogether."
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2011
  2. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Jesus Karen 1977 was before DM's time. When was that order written to petition?

    I don't know how you stayed so long>
  3. NCSP

    NCSP Patron Meritorious

    Great video. You're a very compelling speaker!

    If you don't mind my asking, what's the origin of your accent? I know you've been speaking English for many years, but your fluency is truly impressive. I know how hard it is to learn a foreign language, so I always like to tip my hat to people who can master one.
  4. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    I'd like to know who rejected the petition and who beat Heber up ... I look forward to finding out when the film is ready for viewing.

    Karen, to lose a son to that cult is hard enough, I sincerely hope you have some girls in your life that feel like the daughter you were prevented from having, you really should have had a little girl, I see that.

    So sad.

  5. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron


    Alexander Jentzsch was born in 1986 and one year later, in 1987 we worked on the petition.

    We attached all stat graphs, commendations, successful missions accomplished on and on and on it was a production in itself !

    Guillame Le Sevre, the then ED INT denied it.

    Miscavige took over the helm in 1982.
    He said some pretty dark things about Sea Org women getting pregnant and how it lessened production and Gross Income.

    You know the "Church" of Scientology has tried hard to ally itself with the Church of LDS.

    Heber was sent to visit with the 12 Elders and so on.
    I am sure the Mormon Church have no idea of how Radical Scientology views children and how abortions were enforced on all continents, UK, Australia, Europe, West and East US ~~ not to mention INT Base.

    I understand why the Catholic Church views the "Church" of Scientology as demonic.
  6. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster Guest

    That quote comes from 1997 WDR German T.V. Expose "The Dark Side of Scientology" for which Janet Honn-Alex was interviewed as cited here and here

    Steve Hall has the wrong date for this quote on the front page of Scientology-Cult.Com
  7. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Didn't know about the church of LDS and the CO$. Are there links on this data?
  8. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Another marvelous and compelling addition to Mark's film ("Knowledge Report") by the always elegant and ever-so-eloquent Karen!

    Some of the number-of-years of selfless dedication & servitude casually tossed about by former S.O. members are just astounding! 15 years! 30 years! My God!

    After viewing this vignette, something hung around that I couldn't quite put my finger on. Then.....AHA! A moment of clarity. Just this--

    The more a person gives of themselves to the CoS, the more the cult takes them for granted, abuses them and denies them the enjoyment of their own life.

    Where and when does the Scientologist actually get to enjoy the benefits of the good life that the cult so vigorously promotes?

    Apparently, the subtle transition goes unnoticed. From the early moments when one joins, brimming with hope and excited expectation of a rich and colorfully joyful future. And then the imperceptible shift....

    Who knows how it happens exactly, but one day one arises and the goal is no longer to enjoy life, but to ensure that others enjoy theirs. Thus is the lot of staff members and others recruited into the employ or service of the greater good.

    Where are the simple pleasures and happiness that so many glossy promotional photos depict? These are not part of the life of a fully committed KSW Scientologist or S.O. member.

    Only other people's happiness counts. Only their quality of life, only their prosperity, only their wins and smiles.

    What is the purpose then of Scientology if people who are within it cannot participate in their own lives?

    What is the purpose of knowing all the tech of the "2nd Dynamic" if one needs permission to have a child? And is promptly denied it?

    It's hard to think of an apt analogy, but this might give some sense of it.

    Scientology is like standing in line for days to buy a ticket to the greatest rock concerte ever given. Thru rain and sleet and snow and ice, one suffers each trudging step forward towards the ticket office. And finally one buys the ticket!!! YAYYYYY!

    But, not so fast, the ticket is taken away from you by it's rightful owner who hired you to be a "placeholder" in line so they didn't have to do it themselves.

    They go to the rock concert. You don't.

    It's all done on some sort of wacked-out cult system of "accrued pleasure". You don't get to actually experience the pleasure now, but at some future point you get to collect on it.

    But, not quite yet.

    And, confidentially, not quite ever.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  9. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

  10. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    LOL. The Mormon Church would never align itself with another church.. period. I grew up in Mormonism.

    Heber grew up in a Mormon family; the son of a polygamist father. Wikipedia claims he was never baptized a Mormon; if Heber grew up in the LDS faith, I doubt this is true.

    Heber may not have entered a Temple or gone on a fulltime mission, but if he was still in the Mormon Church at the age of 12-13, he would have been baptized. His father's ex-communication from the LDS for practicing polygamy wouldn't have prevented Heber from being baptized, unless his father held him back from doing so.
  11. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron


    I did not say that the Mormon Church aligned with the "Church" of Scientology.

    I said
    You know the "Church" of Scientology has tried hard to ally itself with the Church of LDS.

    It had "Interfaith Programs" within OSA to befriend other religions so that they stood by each other with AMICUS BRIEFS (Friends of the Court) pleadings when the Church was in a Lawsuit that looked rough to win. There were always lots of reasons why the the Management of the "Church" wanted friendship and recognition from other Religions.

    It also paid out handsome fees to Scholars and others with credentials to write favorable essays and papers on Scientology within the field of comparative Religion.

    Scientology paid cold hard cash for good reports $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    on itself as a religion. It was in the OSA budget.

    But as more and more got revealed of the sadism of the RPF, the enforced abortions, the shunning/excommunication and disconnection of parents and children, brothers and sisters, family members, the vampire regging (forcing to pay $$$ to the Church), the brutality of INT Base lock down, the beatings of David Miscavige, some Religious Scholars starting thinking 2x about endorsing the Church, even for paid $$$$$

    James Lewis did a very public withdrawal see above.

    And I am sure my dear SMURF you know a whole lot more than me about Mormonism

  12. MostlyLurker

    MostlyLurker Patron Meritorious

    I think these incidents to be pertinent and should be reported to the Fair Work Ombudsman. I mean, does someone volunteering need to ask permission in writing to be allowed to have babies? And be denied that right?
  13. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    That just makes me feel so sad. Thinking of a man getting beaten for wanting another little baby - I imagine that and my heart breaks a little. I am so sorry for both of you. Thank you for sharing that story.
  14. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Some thoughts...

    As I recall, the "Church" of Scientology has been - for specific purposes on specific occasions - seeking to position itself with Mormonism since the 1970s.

    As for Miscavige taking over the helm in 1982, apparently that's not entirely accurate, although it probably seemed that way to many Scientologists, and there are some who still wish to believe it.

    Hubbard, circa 1982, was still "at the helm," albeit in cowardly hiding.

    Some years ago, I was asked to do some "paralegal" work on a court case (having to do with Scientology suing over someone calling Scientology "Church" President, Heber Jentzsch, a professional liar.) Amongst other things, I studied a court-obtained photocopy of the President of the Church of Scientology Check sheet. It was a re-tread, dated 1988, and I had the feeling that it was a punitive retread, so it does not surprise me to hear that Heber fell into disfavor sometime before this.

    Frankly, I'm at a loss as to why anyone would wish to have children while in the Sea Org. As much as I detest enforced abortions, I can't say I care much for the alternative, a Sea Org filled with little Sea Org cadets being brought up in the perverse world of L. Ron Hubbard, Commodore.

    As for the origins of the toxic views expressed by Miscavige, virtually all of it can be traced back to Hubbard.

    If Scientology weren't sexually insane before, it became so, in 1982, when L. Ron Hubbard wrote his 'Pain and Sex' HCOB.

    Yet even before this, beneath the children&family-friendly facade, Scientology, under Hubbard's direction, was anti-child and anti-family. Children were tolerated to the extent that they could be used, and that was all. Any man who had a 13 year old girl follow him around with an ashtray into which he flicked his cigarette ashes, or who had small children placed in a chain locker, or who abandoned or disowned his own children, or who threw his wife under the bus, allowing her to go to prison for crimes that he originated and directed, has - shall we say - a "blocked 2nd dynamic."

    Here's some background for both the contempt for families and the support of abortion. This, combined with the (Hubbard created) totalitarian system of the Sea Org, and the earlier (1961 Sec Checking for both adults and children) trend toward thought-policing, were not likely to lead anywhere good.

    From the 1952 Philadelphia Doctorate Course:

    "We mustn't mention this because, God help us, there goes the moral code. Penicillin took out the disease level and now... [a person] can take a couple of beams of energy.... and terminate a pregnancy. Nothing wild or forceful or upsetting or anything like that. Just make sure the tube opens. It's very simple. There are muscles and so forth that contract and expand at a certain period every month, and that sort of thing.

    "Pregnancies that have been as much as three months advanced have been terminated that way... Isn't this fascinating? So you've got something like birth control sitting right there in theta clearing... It's just deadly. One, two, three!"

    And, from a precept from 'The Way to Happiness' booklet, written, in 1980, as PR cover while Hubbard was in hiding after the exposure of his amoral, immoral, and criminal teachings and activities:

    On the topic of sex, in 'TWTH', one precept advises against promiscuity, explaining that, "A 'feeling of guilt' is no where near as sharp as ground glass in the soup."

    Note that "feeling of guilt" is in quotes.

    As early as 1951, Hubbard had spoken dismissively of "conscience." In the lecture, 'Cause on All Dynamics', he said:

    "What is conscience? It is simply a negating against your own, not somebody else's, causes. If there is such a thing as conscience, it would be that...

    "Now, you want to know anytime in your life when you have felt guilty... you go back earlier and find the postulate that you are guilty of disobeying [and erase the postulate]."

    Hubbard expressed the idea of being free of the "impediment" of conscience more simply, during a ('PDC') lecture in 1952:

    "Never be the effect of your own cause."

    In this video, Mike Goldstein and Jim Dincalci had these observations, including about Hubbard's son Quentin, who was gay:

    "The GE [Genetic Entity] is a family man. The GE is lost without the family. It's very strange but Homo Sap is a family unit. The GE is built on that basis...

    "And your thetan, by the way, can much more easily go into a group. Families are not good groups."

    From 10 December 1952, PDC lecture series.
  15. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I was the OSA Int course sup at that time in 1988. The entire staff were doing new hat checksheets. There had just been a huge compilations project, which I was also involved with, although my part in that was the mechanical one of sorting and compiling the printed issues into packs and not preparing the issues or checksheets.

    This was just after the new OSA Network Orders series was released. The OSA NW Orders contained Hubbard writings from earlier issue types, like Guardian Orders and also some taped lecture quotes.

    The new OSA checksheets covered the entire org board, at the levels of OSA Int, OSA Cont, and OSA area/org. The checksheets were modular, with maybe one post containing 11 sections out of the 29 (I don't know the actual figure), another post 13 sections with some overlap, the Div Head 23 sections, the CO OSA Int all 29. There would be other items too, but the modular design made it much easier to compile the issues into hat packs. The hat project compiled these hundreds of hat packs and they got shipped out worldwide to all the OSA units.

    I didn't see much of Heber in my courseroom. One time he had been at Int (Hemet) doing the Personal Grooming Course (that's a new-recruit basic course) because some senior at Int hadn't liked his haircut or something.

  16. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Having a family is a very strong human instinct and a basic human right, but I do understand your point. The Sea Org is a terrible place to grow up, as for children in many other places and circumstances around the world.
  17. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Purple Rain.

    Heber did not get beaten physically this time. I meant it in the sense of humiliated, degraded, punished.

    He was beaten up physically plenty of times by Miscavige who hated him later at INT BASE.
    Also, in freezing November at St. Hill in England, Heber was thrown into the lake
    along with other Execs as daily punishment.
    Heber has only been able to see Alexander his son a couple of times in the last 8 years.

    Because Heber was in complete lockdown in the SP hole, he was unable to communicate to his son and to his (now EX-wife) Jane Jentzsch.

    Jane was an auditor at OSA INT. She blew (fled) after Heber did not communicate with her for 3 years. OSA INT was very careful to NOT SP declare Jane. She had a LOT of OSA sensitive information. She is somewhere in the Los Angeles area with a new boyfriend/fiance.

    Miscavige personally ordered Heber to divorce Jane which he did after she blew.

    While Alexander Jentzsch was having sexual intercourse at the Flag Land Base in Clearwater when he was 12 years old with a Sea Org 40 year old called Marie Warren, the Church covered it up without reporting to Law Enforcement and never told Heber or myself.
    Heber was on a punishment detail steam cleaning Sea Org buses morning til night at INT BASE at the time Alexander was having sex at 12 years old. I was already ex-SO 3000 miles away in Los Angeles, Heber was at INT base and Alexander was having intercourse at the Flag service Org. He got no schooling and was cleaning toilets and bannisters at the Fort Harrison as Slave Labor. Still, he doggedly wanted to stay in the SO always looking for approval from Heber.

    Alexander was severely indoctrinated to NEVER speak about the sexual intercourse.

    A whole bunch of people came forward and gave me the documentation on the cover up of the statutory rape.
    I did send it to Clearwater PD and a whole host of other Law enforcement so they understand the "JAN EASTGATE" type cover up repeats itself over and over for CHURCH "PR" reasons.

    [/B]I have to tell you the End Result on being part of the CHURCH for 35 years.

    Destroyed family.
    Son ex-communicated from me. (Disconnection)
    Heber is in sadistic lockdown at 76 years of age.

    Alexander and his wife with one forced abortion
    and 2nd time miscarriage

    Jentzsch family utterly torn apart.

    Alexander has a father in lock down he cannot see
    Alexander has a Declared SP Mom

    Such is the "EP" End phenomena of a LIFETIME in the Church of Scientology !
    Imagine how I feel that I put in 35 years of my life into THIS !
    And to crown it all, (the dummy that I am, I PAID them high five figure Sea Org Free loader Bill)


    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  18. Jachs

    Jachs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Karen ,

    do you think Ron Hubbards policies have any role in the abuse you or Heber have suffered?
  19. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    They have ripped your little family to shreds, and stolen something precious that you can never have back. But the sun rises new every morning. If you haven't already I hope that you meet someone wonderful to put a smile on your face and chase away the shadows. I wish healing and freedom for you all and a brand new beginning. You never know what is around the corner - you can't control what your son does, but I am sure that no matter how grown up he may be he has not stopped thinking of you or longing for you. I'm sure that he would have a secret place that aches for his mother, as he has always done for his father. I can really empathise with your pain, Karen. I hope one day they will pay for what they have done to you and to Heber and to Alexander, and your little unborn grandchild. I hope you will at least have justice.

    All my admiration for your courage,
  20. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    That's how I feel too.