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Techy II, OT VIII Is Defective (aka Techy II, The Return of the Tech Post)

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Kha Khan, Jun 10, 2010.

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  1. Kha Khan

    Kha Khan Patron Meritorious

    Interesting and important tech comment from Marty's blog:
    If Scientologists who actually care about the Tech learn about this and believe it, it will be major. A huge "overt" and major slap in the face.

    Scientology auditing levels are supposed to be separate and discrete. Each typically has a cognition / end phenomenon (an "Oh, I get it!" Like, "I mocked up my reactive mind!") and a specific ability gained (e.g., "ability to communicate freely with anyone about anything," "return of self-determinism"; see grade chart at bottom of the post).

    A pre-clear or pre-OT is NOT supposed to stop at the middle of a level. An auditor who abandoned a PC or pre-OT during the middle of a level would be in big trouble. A person who, without just cause, prevented a PC or pre-OT from completing a level would be in big trouble.

    Further, nobody (including the PC or pre-OT) would expect a PC or pre-OT who failed to do all the processes of a level and complete the level to obtain the cognition / end phenomenon and ability gained for that level. It would be impossible. Such a person would be, in Scientology terms, an "incomplete product." Or, worse, an "overt product."

    Here we have evidence that DM decided that the people at the very top of the auditing bridge should receive only a half, fatally defective level that could not possibly work. That DM was deliberately creating "incomplete products" or "overt products."

    If Scientologists who actually care about the Tech learn about this and believe it, it will drive more of them out of the Church of Scientology.

    On the other hand, this may be bad news for the Anons who not only want to bring down the Church of Scientology and (perhaps) in addition eradicate the religion of Scientology as it is currently practiced, but also want to eradicate the religion, philosophy and ideology of Scientology from the face of the earth (which, of course, isn't going to happen anyway). The above revelation will give Independent Scienologists, Freezoners, and other defenders of the Tech yet another excuse for why the Tech does not work. Their reasoning will be, "No wonder our OT8s are not bright and shiny and look so bad! DM caused them to receive incomplete auditing! DM was deliberately creating overt products! Obviously, when these people receive any necessary repair auditing and the full and complete OT8 they will be true OT8 products! Yeah!"

    WWP Thread: [Marty]: Techy II, OT VIII Is Defective (aka Techy II, The Return of the Tech Post)

    /


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
  2. Kha Khan

    Kha Khan Patron Meritorious

    Even assuming you are right, do not fall into the trap of making the best the enemy of the good.

    /
     
  3. GoNuclear

    GoNuclear Gold Meritorious Patron

    Bait, switch, and horseshit

    It's all bait and switch horseshit. OTVIII as stated on the early seventies bridge chart claimed an EP of being totally at cause of matter, energy, space and time, subjective and OBJECTIVE. When it was finally released it was none of that nor did it claim that EP. The older OT levels that did claim eepee's of value such as projection of intention and being able to operate exterior are all gone now as well, all in favor of chasing beetees, aka
    Xenu-ology.

    Pete
     
  4. Kha Khan

    Kha Khan Patron Meritorious

    Interesting. The switch from the "old" OT levels to the "new" OT levels is something that has just been brought up on Marty's blog:
    As I note in a comment on Marty's blog that is awaiting moderation (and to be fair to Marty, he has yet to reject one of my comments), this is something that has been discussed outside the COS for years. Indeed, I recall seeing material on this in the old ARS (the usenet newsgroup alt.religion.scientology) days in the mid-90s.

    It is interesting to see people who are newly out of the COS on Marty's blog (and here) who are learning things about their former Church and "catching up" on things other people have known, discussed and debated for years.

    /
     
  5. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    It's quite true, I've been telling people that for 2 years.
    It's obvious (or should be) to anyone who's done New OTVIII.
     
  6. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

    Poor thetan shooter got shot.
     
  7. Pooks

    Pooks MERCHANT OF CHAOS

    Thanks for posting these interesting comments. I have a hard time working my way through all the comments and ass kissing that goes on over there.

    One question. How do you link directly to a specific comment?

    like this onehttp://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/ot-viiis-to-objectives-the-latest-in-reverse-scientology/#comment-30663"

    How do you get that url? I never figured this out.
     
  8. Kha Khan

    Kha Khan Patron Meritorious

    You get the url from placing your cursor over the text: June 9, 2010 at 2:32 am at the top of the comment (unlike here, it won't be underlined), right click, and then select "Copy link location." Then paste the link where you want it.

    Or at least that is how I do it using the Firefox browser.

    /
     
  9. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Solo Nots came out during 1980 (not 1983 or 1984). The old OT levels 4 -7 were dropped in 1981. According to David Mayo, L. Ron Hubbard authorized these changes, just as he had authorized the other changes in the Grade Chart (dropping PP, R6ew, and CC for "Dianetic Clears").

    This might be hard for the the Marty Hubbardites to accept - that Hubbard had other priorities, and that the "tech" was secondary.

    Also, in 1983, I had a conversation with Harvey Haber, who worked with David Mayo, and asked about "OT 8," this being not "old OT 8" - which never existed as a "level" but only as some theory on "failed purposes" - but a supposed "New OT 8" based on Hubbard's more recent notes. That "New OT 8" was piloted by Mayo, after he left the C of S, but was never released as it proved unsatisfactory.

    The C of S OT 8 appears to be a hodgepodge of Hubbard's notes, with some other things tossed in. It's not a "level" - just a bunch of stuff. Miscavige knows this. It has no mystique for him. For the naive true believers - in "LRH tech" - however, that mystique is as strong as ever.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2010
  10. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Thanks very much Kha Khan. You continue to perform a stellar service.

    -----

    Now, the way this is expressed by Tom (Virgil) it makes it sound like Hubbard had fully written up OT VIII as a doable level, and Miscavige/Mithoff committed the heinous overt of chopping it in half. As far as I know, Hubbard only left obscure notes and someone else created an OT Level (or two) from part of them. From what we've read on ESMB it's an overt product anyway. I can't say I feel hopeful that if there is another part to it (and there damn well ought to be with that suspenseful existing "EP" [half-P ?]), then it would turn out a lot better.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
  11. RolandRB

    RolandRB Rest in Peace

    This confirms what I have always thought in that a person should expect OT powers to turn on after completing OT VIII. After all, the valuable final product of OT VIII should be an operating thetan in every sense of the word if only a baby operating thetan. They should be able to do SOMETHING be it only levitating a cent coin. It is now clear to me that David Miscavige has sabotaged the path to OTness. Why does he not want people to become more able and powerful?
     
  12. Kha Khan

    Kha Khan Patron Meritorious

    Whether or not it was Hubbard, it appears somebody (or some group of people) who was (were) technically knowledgeable, trained and skilled authored or pulled together a "complete" level, and then DM chose to arbitrarily cut it in half. Not for any legitimate tech reason -- indeed, contrary to legitimate tech considerations -- but to make more money.

    Imagine how any other level of auditing would read, "feel" and work if was randomly cut in half. And what the hell would the EP of Grade 0, I, II, III, IV, Clear, OT I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII be if they were cut in half?

    "I mocked up half my reactive mind?" "I half mocked up my reactive mind?" WFT? :omg:

    And yes, the "EP" of OT8 has always been weird, open-ended, and unlike the EP of any other level. Perhaps we now know why.

    /
     
  13. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    There were no Grades 0 - 4 until someone selected processes from the 1950s and assembled them into "Lower Grades" around 1965. These were later put into triple flows, then around 1974, or so, into four (quad) flows. Before that there were processes with more than four flows, or with no specific flow, but no "Lower Grades"

    If Hubbard had called OT 2 "Clearing Course part 2," or presented only part (or more) material as OT 2, would Scientologists have objected? Not likely.

    Each step along the way, Hubbard would make changes and then Scientologists would be delighted (except for a dissenting few, who would usually disappear from Scientology, becoming non-people or "SPs.")

    The idea that almost everyone who did much Dianetic auditing was probably a Dianetic Clear, and should skip PP, R6ew, and CC (and go immediately "up lines"), would have been regarded as nutty by any "tech terminal" before 1978/79; after 1978/79 there was an immediate reality-adjustment.

    When I started realizing that most Scientologists were in a trance state regarding Scientology, it was a turning point. That was during the initial "Dianetic Clear" frenzy (begun by Hubbard for $$$$) of many years ago.

    Of course, I was, myself, still in a Scientology trance to some extent, regarding earlier changes by Hubbard, that - to me and most others - were carved in stone as "reality" and "truth."

    That Scientology trance can be hard to break.
     
  14. mate

    mate Patron Meritorious

    You now have only seven days left to get your submission in.

    You have done yours? Thank you for doing it

    You haven’t done yours? Let me ask you some questions.

    Do you feel that family disconnection tears a family apart?

    Are you aware that disconnection occurs in some religions?

    Do you feel that the proposed amendment could handle this?

    Are you in support of the amendment?

    Good! Now, put your answers together in a few sentences and Voila! You have your submission. So send it NOW and I mean NOW.


    David.
     
  15. JBTrendy

    JBTrendy Patron with Honors

    OT8 DM Overt by Kha Khan

    "Virgil Samms // June 9, 2010 at 2:32 am | Reply

    Splog and Tom. It wasn’t as innocuous as that.

    I was the Mission I/C of the original MV – when OT VIII was released. Snr C/S Int, Jeff Walker, told me, two days before we opened the OT VIII courseroom, that DM and Ray decided to only deliver the 1st half of OT VIII. I asked Jeff why. He said: “For money, what else?” He said the other half of OT VIII will be OT IX.

    I went and asked Ray, who was IG Tech at the time, if this were true. He got a little missed withholdy and asked me where I got my info. I wouldn’t tell him and he got pissed at me. He figured it out.

    The next thing I knew Jeff confronted me and called me a rat. I told him I didn’t tell Ray, but he was still pissed and we almost came to blows. But I calmed Jeff down. I told him we cannot deliver just half of fucking OT VIII and that it was a cuttative. He said plainly to me and as sensibly as he could – “Nothing we’re going to do about it.”

    I couldn’t tell you if DM decided to include the 2nd half after the MV, but during it, I was feeling unsure of what I was doing and who I was hanging with. After that, I had a M/WH from every OT VIII I ever met. What an overt I was involved in.

    So there. I let the cat out. Enjoy it.

    ML Tom"

    I agree Kha-Khan this is a huge revolutionary scoop!

    Good fishing!

    :clap::clap::clap:
     
  16. JBTrendy

    JBTrendy Patron with Honors

    Breaking Scientology Transe by Veda

    Thanks dearly

    Veda's Blessing :coolwink::coolwink::coolwink:
     
  17. JBTrendy

    JBTrendy Patron with Honors

    JbTrendy's Submission 10 06 10

    Freewinds Maiden Voyage 1988"...deliver the 1st half of OT VIII. I asked Jeff why. He said: “For money, what else?” He said the other half of OT VIII will be OT IX.

    I went and asked Ray, who was IG Tech at the time, if this were true. He got a little missed withholdy and asked me where I got my info. I wouldn’t tell him and he got pissed at me. He figured it out.

    The next thing I knew Jeff confronted me and called me a rat. I told him I didn’t tell Ray, but he was still pissed and we almost came to blows. But I calmed Jeff down. I told him we cannot deliver just half of fucking OT VIII and that it was a cuttative. He said plainly to me and as sensibly as he could – “Nothing we’re going to do about it.”

    I couldn’t tell you if DM decided to include the 2nd half after the MV, but during it, I was feeling unsure of what I was doing and who I was hanging with. After that, I had a M/WH from every OT VIII I ever met. What an overt I was involved in.

    So there. I let the cat out. Enjoy it.

    ML Tom"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VuDjJ9KIxM

    2ALL2UALL

    Little Davy knows me.
    Little Davy ows me.
    For I served under his command with the higher level of dedication there is as so many of us.
    So much competence demonstrated and efficiency performed.
    So many successes for so little recognition.

    He failed as a senior to validate his best crew members
    though we didn’t ask for more than simple dignity.
    You could have made us happy despite of all if you had properly held your command.

    You took a post too big for you as you were not the wise man that could have trenscended the hineritance of the Old Man.
    You thought that you were strong enough and that you knew best and walked on every face using force and made us all in along with you.

    You didn’t realize we had made up the grade and didn’t need to fight anymore.

    So you endlessly created a state of emergency that in the long run got Scientology as a whole down to enemy turning the fight internally on your very own members with offbeat handlings that soon got us at treason as we were not wearing our proper hat anymore.

    You don’t create peace on Earth by controlling and enforcing communications to a point where thinking soundly become impossible.

    When no proper solutions can be envisioned anymore and no real handling come to sight here we have a state of confusion.

    That’s where the Church is now. On circuit and totally robotic with utterly wrong purpose that is to make money and invest it in the mest. Your ideal orgs are as phony as your inability to operate on the theta line of duty.

    You have to go now before our Churches are empty and the game totally over. Open your eyes and stop lying about the stats and false reporting to our members.

    I was not strong and good enough to handle you before and we’re a lot sharing this responsibility.

    We’ll help you with fair justice and proper Scientology but it’s time for you little Davy to give away all your hats and Heber is our True Leader first one in command from now on.

    We know you worked hard and thought you were doing the right things and bad habits you took from the raving mad Man but your time is over and here starts the reform.

    JbTrendy 8/06/10
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
  18. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    That Hubbard's notes for the OT levels above (new) 7 were an incomprehensible jumble was recognized by David Mayo, and he said so, over 25 years ago. Does it matter to Scientologists who are salivating for their next secret LRH level? Not really.
     
  19. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    I know who you are Troll.
     
  20. JBTrendy

    JBTrendy Patron with Honors

    Walking on the Moon

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPwMdZOlPo8[/URL]

    That's right on spot Veda