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The Event

Hoodwinked

Patron with Honors
Good point Ax

Actually the issue of BTs is an important(ish) point. Hubbard apparently predicted that with all those many thousands of BTs being released by all that solo auditing, the orgs would be flooded by these newly-freed beings all wanting more of this wonderful technology.

So, if this was all true, then every Scientology Org on the planet should bulging with public as each person who makes it to OTVII will have freed tens of thousands of BTs. Multiply that by the several thousand who have made it that far, then there should have been millions of new customers over the past few years.

Do any of the OT public who are still in ever think of that? In fact, did any of the guys who are reading this, ever think of that?

Axiom142

As I was doing my OT levels, I was led to believe that every BT that I freed was at least Clear. And with all of the pre-OT's on the OT levels releasing thousands of BT's (not to mention clusters!) every day, it should follow that the environment was being infused with theta. I assumed that most of these BT's would pick up bodies and that in short order we would have a very sane planet. Well, it's been over 20 years and the planet is just as f@#ked up as ever. Hmmmmm.

Also, I have met OT VII's who started Solo Nots in the late 1970's, so there should be lots of 20-30 year old individuals (ex BT's) who are newly-freed BT's from 1979-1989. Where are they?
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
As I was doing my OT levels, I was led to believe that every BT that I freed was at least Clear. And with all of the pre-OT's on the OT levels releasing thousands of BT's (not to mention clusters!) every day, it should follow that the environment was being infused with theta. I assumed that most of these BT's would pick up bodies and that in short order we would have a very sane planet. Well, it's been over 20 years and the planet is just as f@#ked up as ever. Hmmmmm.

Oh yes, I heard something like that in the 80s. That was how we were going to get a Clear planet. All these Clear BTs — those fresh and sparkly unit beings and not us composite monsters — would be picking up the available bodies and would just start off life Clear anyway. My thoughts on what would happen to us were rather bleak. But at least we would have a Clear planet, even if we wouldn't really be around to enjoy it!

Paul
 

Telepathetic

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome Norma Jean,:thumbsup:

I don't mean to be pushy but...how about a story?
Tell us a little about yourself,that is, when you're ready.

Glad you made it here:yes:

TP
 

FlunkedForLaughing

Patron with Honors
As I was doing my OT levels, I was led to believe that every BT that I freed was at least Clear. And with all of the pre-OT's on the OT levels releasing thousands of BT's (not to mention clusters!) every day, it should follow that the environment was being infused with theta. I assumed that most of these BT's would pick up bodies and that in short order we would have a very sane planet. Well, it's been over 20 years and the planet is just as f@#ked up as ever. Hmmmmm.

Also, I have met OT VII's who started Solo Nots in the late 1970's, so there should be lots of 20-30 year old individuals (ex BT's) who are newly-freed BT's from 1979-1989. Where are they?

Interesting... BT's now set free and picking up a body as a Clear. They of course would HAVE to come running into the Org and become a Scientologist. That's funny KNN - that they would become Anonymous instead. CO$ never planned on that happening, did they?

Wait - wouldn't they be OT or something? I mean, they wouldn't have any BT's of their own to audit out.

Oh yes, welcome Norma Jean.

FFL
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
Interesting... BT's now set free and picking up a body as a Clear. They of course would HAVE to come running into the Org and become a Scientologist. That's funny KNN - that they would become Anonymous instead. CO$ never planned on that happening, did they?

Wait - wouldn't they be OT or something? I mean, they wouldn't have any BT's of their own to audit out.

Oh yes, welcome Norma Jean.

FFL

I'm still thinking massive freeloader debt. As the new "OTBTs" would arrive at the "org" passing by the salivating bookstore officer, they would immediately be routed to be gang bang regged for the hundreds of thousands of dollars they owe in back auditing fees. Welcome to scamintology sucka!
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Fairly reliable numbers do exist, but they are not all reported publicly by the CofS. It is a question of what do you want to count?

The completion lists are pretty accurate, as far as I know. By that I mean the names represent real people and are not invented. They may now be including unpaid staff graduates as well as paid public graduates, but they are still real people who have completed real courses. Thank Patty and Kristi for the completion lists. :)

Someone doing a Basics course and having their name listed as a completion would count as an active Scientologist for the period in question. Quite honestly, I think that would be an excellent way of counting the numbers, however you word the definition. How could any Scio who considered himself supportive of the cult NOT have done at least one Basics course in the past year?

<snip>
Paul

Not to be weird and nit-picky, but I know that most of the public at the org I worked for who considered themselves 'active' didn't complete a Basic Course each year. The majority of our night-time public in the Acad were on the seemingly endless Solo I course--my last 2 years on staff, I'm trying to remember if we had even one comp. Add to that the public stuck on Pro Metering over a year, and the people who would come in for a few hours before Thursday at 2 to be counted as a Body in the Shop, and you get the majority of those who we considered our 'real' active public.

Our org was so caught up in production frenzy that our admin was horribly inconsistent to the point where it was a crap-shoot if a name ever got forwarded to the completion lists. (we actually had an 'auditor of the year' who didn't get recognised at Flag because nobody sent up her WDAHs in time).

Also, the org keeps tallies now of Active Volunteer Ministers, many haven't been anywhere near a courseroom in ages, but they report their weekly stats of tech applications to the VM I/C, who sends it uplines.

Still doesn't change the fact that the cult is shrinking faster than an Angora sweater in the dryer..,
 

Species8472

Patron with Honors
Not to be weird and nit-picky, but I know that most of the public at the org I worked for who considered themselves 'active' didn't complete a Basic Course each year. The majority of our night-time public in the Acad were on the seemingly endless Solo I course--my last 2 years on staff, I'm trying to remember if we had even one comp. Add to that the public stuck on Pro Metering over a year, and the people who would come in for a few hours before Thursday at 2 to be counted as a Body in the Shop, and you get the majority of those who we considered our 'real' active public.

Our org was so caught up in production frenzy that our admin was horribly inconsistent to the point where it was a crap-shoot if a name ever got forwarded to the completion lists. (we actually had an 'auditor of the year' who didn't get recognised at Flag because nobody sent up her WDAHs in time).

Also, the org keeps tallies now of Active Volunteer Ministers, many haven't been anywhere near a courseroom in ages, but they report their weekly stats of tech applications to the VM I/C, who sends it uplines.

Still doesn't change the fact that the cult is shrinking faster than an Angora sweater in the dryer..,


This figures for me too. I remember the IAS event of 1993 ("The War is over, Shoulder to Shoulder") our org hired a hall and filled it must have had around 500 there. The last event I went to was one of the summer ones in 2008 - barely 50 public, probably more staff than public to swell the numbers. I consider myself 'out' not having done anything since 2003 - but I'll bet I'm counted as 'active' - I received a 'gift' of the new basic books (all of them - like $500 worth or something?) from a relative still 'in'
 

OTBT

Patron Meritorious
As I was doing my OT levels, I was led to believe that every BT that I freed was at least Clear. And with all of the pre-OT's on the OT levels releasing thousands of BT's (not to mention clusters!) every day, it should follow that the environment was being infused with theta. I assumed that most of these BT's would pick up bodies and that in short order we would have a very sane planet.

Interesting... BT's now set free and picking up a body as a Clear. They of course would HAVE to come running into the Org and become a Scientologist.

Wait - wouldn't they be OT or something? I mean, they wouldn't have any BT's of their own to audit out.

OT BTs don't need a body to operate :whistling:
 

logrus

Patron
Where did you get the idea that "folders are electronic"?

I can't quite remember where I thought I read that. I might have made that assumption based on something I read where someone was talking about scheduling being computerized or something like that. I've always had the idea that CoS would be all over computerization internally.

I am actually a bit surprised that they haven't computerized auditing notes as it would certainly enable them to have better oversight over who's doing what (in terms of controlling people).

The problem of reading these boards as an "outsider" is that there is a lot of information to try to piece together, and sometimes I guess it's easy to stick some of the pieces in the wrong place. :)
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I can't quite remember where I thought I read that. I might have made that assumption based on something I read where someone was talking about scheduling being computerized or something like that. I've always had the idea that CoS would be all over computerization internally.

I am actually a bit surprised that they haven't computerized auditing notes as it would certainly enable them to have better oversight over who's doing what (in terms of controlling people).

The problem of reading these boards as an "outsider" is that there is a lot of information to try to piece together, and sometimes I guess it's easy to stick some of the pieces in the wrong place. :)

Thanks for answering my question. Computerized auditing notes? One reason is that Hubbard's tech on keeping worksheets requires that they are written in real time as the session progresses. Typing wouldn't work as an auditor only has one hand free, and one-handed typing isn't going to be fast enough and would be a distraction to the person getting the session (no distractions allowed). Making a summary of the session afterwards is already done by hand on the auditor's report form.

Some session data exists in electronic form. I'm thinking of reports of sec-checking sessions I have seen being typed by OSA Int auditors late at night after the session to be emailed uplines. I saw them typing and knew what it was, but I didn't see the content itself.

But general notes for everyone would serve no useful technical purpose, and wouldn't fly anyway because of the vast amount of data entry needed and also the difficulty in reading it afterwards.

Paul
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Not to be weird and nit-picky, but I know that most of the public at the org I worked for who considered themselves 'active' didn't complete a Basic Course each year. The majority of our night-time public in the Acad were on the seemingly endless Solo I course--my last 2 years on staff, I'm trying to remember if we had even one comp. Add to that the public stuck on Pro Metering over a year, and the people who would come in for a few hours before Thursday at 2 to be counted as a Body in the Shop, and you get the majority of those who we considered our 'real' active public.

Our org was so caught up in production frenzy that our admin was horribly inconsistent to the point where it was a crap-shoot if a name ever got forwarded to the completion lists. (we actually had an 'auditor of the year' who didn't get recognised at Flag because nobody sent up her WDAHs in time).

Also, the org keeps tallies now of Active Volunteer Ministers, many haven't been anywhere near a courseroom in ages, but they report their weekly stats of tech applications to the VM I/C, who sends it uplines.

Still doesn't change the fact that the cult is shrinking faster than an Angora sweater in the dryer..,

Fair enough. Looks like I was wrong. :). Thanks for the data. I haven't been inside an org in ten years.

Paul
 

Aneley

Patron
I just saw that on this thread you are dealing with actual CF names in Scientology and how much their numbers are REAL.

I will tell you from my personal experience what was done in our mission. One of the stats NBSTIR (numbers of books sold to individual raw) is the opne that also affects NNCF (new names in central files). This two are one of the more important stats for DIV 6. Well when week/ending thursday would come, and these stats would be declining comparing to the last week, We the staffs had a solution!
We had some old editions of Scientololgy books, audio cassettes so we had these items sold by really low cost, like 2-5 dollars per item. So, we would see how much books we need to buy to have increase in stats, and WE, the Staffs would buy these cheap books, BUT the thing was that we would put some of our relatives names, or parents etc. with their addresses!!! The thing was we would also write a note on the invice that they are not to be written letters or send promo materiel.
so, that was our handling, paying of our own pockets, from our tiny staff pay. And this was well known at all levels in the mission, the ED was actually encouriging it in the morning master, like if someone didnt have money, they should borrow from some other staff and after he receives the pay on friday he would return the debt.
We were also encouraging some of the older public to buy this cheap books, although they would not read it, all for the purpose of playing the LRH Bday game!

Now when I think of it, Scn struggles sooo much for revealing the truths and fighting to put ethics in to all the world, but here it is falsifying everything possible to get some stupid points in a Bday game, using the staffs already tiny pay, even putting them into debts, so that it can show more expansion, success, power...????? I wonder how noone of us was thinking about this comparison then, when it is soo obvious???

Well, because it IS a brainwashing cult!

So, the end point is NO! their numbers are faar from real! You cant use them, try to correct them, give some approximates by deduction, addition or whatever other action you think would get some more real number.

Their numbers, same as their claims are just FAKE!!!

I got angry a little bit, sorry.

And just to add that our total CF numbered around 4000 people accumulated for a period of 10 years.
These includes also if a person bought just one book.

The actual number of active scientologist in the area is max max 100 people.
 
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Wisened One

Crusader
I just saw that on this thread you are dealing with actual CF names in Scientology and how much their numbers are REAL.

I will tell you from my personal experience what was done in our mission. One of the stats NBSTIR (numbers of books sold to individual raw) is the opne that also affects NNCF (new names in central files). This two are one of the more important stats for DIV 6. Well when week/ending thursday would come, and these stats would be declining comparing to the last week, We the staffs had a solution!
We had some old editions of Scientololgy books, audio cassettes so we had these items sold by really low cost, like 2-5 dollars per item. So, we would see how much books we need to buy to have increase in stats, and WE, the Staffs would buy these cheap books, BUT the thing was that we would put some of our relatives names, or parents etc. with their addresses!!! The thing was we would also write a note on the invice that they are not to be written letters or send promo materiel.
so, that was our handling, paying of our own pockets, from our tiny staff pay. And this was well known at all levels in the mission, the ED was actually encouriging it in the morning master, like if someone didnt have money, they should borrow from some other staff and after he receives the pay on friday he would return the debt.
We were also encouraging some of the older public to buy this cheap books, although they would not read it, all for the purpose of playing the LRH Bday game!

Now when I think of it, Scn struggles sooo much for revealing the truths and fighting to put ethics in to all the world, but here it is falsifying everything possible to get some stupid points in a Bday game, using the staffs already tiny pay, even putting them into debts, so that it can show more expansion, success, power...????? I wonder how noone of us was thinking about this comparison then, when it is soo obvious???

Well, because it IS a brainwashing cult!

So, the end point is NO! their numbers are faar from real! You cant use them, try to correct them, give some approximates by deduction, addition or whatever other action you think would get some more real number.

Their numbers, same as their claims are just FAKE!!!

I got angry a little bit, sorry.

Hey Anelely:

As Div 6'ers hubby and I used to do this kinda thing, too!

He and I used to sell books on the street lotsa nights. (and we jumped at the chance to be away from the Org, too :yes:)

We'd sell the old paperback English and Spanish Dianetics books on the street just for the NNCF and NBSRAW, lol!



And there were times when the person I was selling the dn book to didn't have enough money, and we'd make up the difference or even buy it FOR them just for the stats, too! :melodramatic:

We hated doing that, and didn't very often...only when our stats were too low for too long and the pressure was getting too heavy...plus we'd had the honest intention that it'd jumpstart our honest production again (and indeed it did, sometimes).

There were other times where we felt we had no choice but to use some of our book money to buy food (or gas) with it...we paid it back whenever possible, tho. :redface:

Ah the good ol' days, huh? :eyeroll: :p
 

Aneley

Patron
Hahaha yeah, the good old days are still happening!

You know it will be great to have oll Ex's tell their stories about how they "handled" their stats to keep them up. I am sure there are plenty different creative ways staff were inventing to handle the stat push, and avoid lower conditions!

come on ex- staffs SPLURGE ON IT! :)

For your stories of stat push handling go to the thread at:

Scientology discussion topics > General discussion > How'd YOU Stat-Push?
 
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knn

Patron Meritorious
So, the end point is NO! their numbers are faar from real! You cant use them, try to correct them, give some approximates by deduction, addition or whatever other action you think would get some more real number.

Their numbers, same as their claims are just FAKE!!!
Reminds me of Applied Scholastics:

I don't know if any of you were in any part of an org where you had to report to LA on the org's stats each Thursday, but if you were I'm sure you saw how stats can be "inflated" and manipulated. These are the same stats Applied Scholastics uses to advertise how wonderful they are.

There are stats for student points that each student has to keep for each day. ... They would take students off of the courses they really needed to get a standard academic education, such as math, history, etc. which take a lot of work and time to get the course completions. Then they would be put on some really educationally benign program of drawing a picture, calling each picture an art course, counting it as a completion, plus taking the points for it. If they were far behind the previous weeks completions and points, all of the students would draw several pictures, taking an art "completion" for each one and the points that go with it. Also, they would be given silly drills to do that they could complete rapidly and do them over and over and over and take 75 points each time the drill was done and that brought up the student points rapidly.

http://home.snafu.de/tilman/mystory/applied.html
The miraculous world of Org Stats!
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hahaha yeah, the good old days are still happening!

You know it will be great to have oll Ex's tell their stories about how they "handled" their stats to keep them up. I am sure there are plenty different creative ways staff were inventing to handle the stat push, and avoid lower conditions!

come on ex- staffs SPLURGE ON IT! :)


I gotta start some laundry, but if someone starts a stat push example thread, I'll add when I come up for air. I'd love to see how that insanity played out in various orgs!
 

Hoodwinked

Patron with Honors
Hahaha yeah, the good old days are still happening!

You know it will be great to have oll Ex's tell their stories about how they "handled" their stats to keep them up. I am sure there are plenty different creative ways staff were inventing to handle the stat push, and avoid lower conditions!

come on ex- staffs SPLURGE ON IT! :)

This reminds me of a comment someone made about receiving 3 of the same promo piece in the mail with their name spelled 3 different ways. Today I received 3 of the same promo piece from ASHO with my name spelled 3 different ways. I am certain that it is just a way of getting the stats up for promo pieces sent to public (or whatever they call it). Just think of staff members being hammered and screamed at to get their stats at and, being at wits end, they just start spelling every name in CF 3 different ways. and voila! they triple their stats. It wouldn't surprise me in the least. And seeing as how outflow = inflow, the orgs should be booming in no time. :lol:
 
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Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
This reminds me of a comment someone made about receiving 3 of the same promo piece in the mail with their name spelled 3 different ways. Today I received 3 of the same promo piece from ASHO with my spelled 3 different ways. I am certain that it is just a way of getting the stats up for promo pieces sent to public or whatever they call it. Just think of staff members being hammered and screamed at to get their stats at and, being at wits end, they just start spelling every name in CF 3 different ways. and voila! they triple their stats. It wouldn't surprise me in the least. And seeing as how inflow equals inflow, they orgs should be booming in no time. :lol:

Oh my! Is THAT what that was? It happened to me (back when I was in) and I very carefully taped the extra labels to a paper and sent it to the Orgs that did it to help them save on paper and postage. :roflmao: it never crossed my mind they wanted it that way!!

Too funny,
TL
 
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