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The highest OT level

Discussion in 'Stories From Inside Scientology' started by Ulduz, Jun 10, 2011.

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  1. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Hats, UGH and YUCK, just reading your text stirs up some heavy and sticky muck. I would say that it is a theory, for those who believe in souls, of how hidden aberation can lurk deep within people, causing them to behave in very strange ways whenever these types of clusters are triggered.

    What if someone does not believe in souls? Robert Lewis Stevenson's, "Jekyl and Hyde" touches on this type of thing as does Oscar Wilde's, "A Portrait of Dorian Gray". Psychiatry gets into the act with their concept of shizophrenia, or a split personality. Hollywood has also explored this theme in movies such as "The Three Faces of Eve".

    In today's workaday world, when feelings in the mind get stirred up in the manner in which you describe above, the mental health establishment tends to label it a malady and refer to it as an imbalance in the chemicals of one's brain. Of course, the solution is nearly always to take medications in the form of pills. These potent medical drugs cause strong effects. Of course they would not break apart any clusters of identities but the person's perceptions are usually dulled and the person feels some relief of sorts.

    I've often thought about a person's identity being unmocked. You hear a lot from people doing meditation and practicing Eastern thought about one "giving up their ego". This is supposed to be a very beneficial thing to do. For me, I am undecided about this. I like being myself and having my ego. When I attempt to let go of it, I do feel better and cleaner but who is doing the feeling, isn't that still one's ego?

    I enjoyed your comments about the threat to a being's existence which would result from fouling up the being's ability to operate from a viewpoint. I had never thought of this concept before. That would be an interesting topic for a separate thread!
    Lakey
     
  2. Ulduz

    Ulduz Patron with Honors

    People lie for several reasons: 1. They are trying to protect themselves and/or family members and friends; 2. They are looking for financial gain; 3. They are pathological liars. Obviously, 1 does not apply to the case under discussion. I do my regression sessions free of charge, and my subjects do not seek publicity with all the money that it entails, so 2 does not apply. The only way to rule out the possibility that neither I nor my subjects are pathological liars is to conduct the experiments by yourself. I was not kidding when I suggested to do just that. This is exactly how I started -- I had an open mind, and I decided to test a past life recall procedure that I found in a Buddhist text.
    The language was Turkish, I could clearly discern the phrase like “Are you hungry?”, “It is cold out there, move closer to the campfire”, and several others.
    Was this some kind of Cosmic Repository that you suggested? The problem with your suggestion is you should submit a MATERIAL proof of its existence, which has not been done so far. Buddha said that such things do not exist because there is no empirical proof of their existence, and I take his word for it (I am a Buddhist)
    Now, let’s talk about the electrons: In general terms, you would like to know if it is possible to recall your past occupations. Say, you were a rocket scientist in your past life, and you would like to know if you can access all that knowledge in your current life without going to college. This can be done; however it takes more time than you might think. I wrote that, on average, it takes 8 hours to recall isolated episodes from your past lives including several phrases in unknown language. But if you want to recall your past live in vivid details including your rocket science studies and work experience, you’ll need several months to achieve that. My regression sessions do not last that long for obvious reason. Several years ago I met a person whose native language is French, she spent 6 months in the USA, and her English was excellent. I asked her where did she learn English. She said that in her past life she lived in England, and had detailed recollection of her past life. She run a past life recall procedure on herself, which is very difficult but doable. It took her 8 months to recall English, which is quite a lot, but still better than learning it for 10 years, which was, approximately, her level of linguistic skills.
     
  3. Ulduz

    Ulduz Patron with Honors

    You are very poetic, and I like what you wrote. You would make a great writer/poet. Would you consider becoming a novelist?
    Science is cold, there is no place for emotions in it; my mind also works the same way. I need empirical proofs; poetry is, definitely, not my forte. There is no scientific proof of existence of the soul, Holy Ghost, spirit, etc. For the lack of empirical proofs I reject all these notions.
     
  4. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Recalling details from past lives

    Your above post is very interesting and informative! I started in Buddhism way back in 1967 and pursued it for 3 years and I loved it. At my Scio intro lecture in 1970, the lecturer stated that Scio was a cousin to Buddhism but that it combined Eastern religious studies with Western engineering. That sold me right there and I signed up. I had some good early years in C of S and then the experience went very sour.

    On recollection of fine details from past lives, I agree with what you say. From both sides of the meter I have run sessions on others as well as received dozens of past life sessions. Only three sessions of mine yielded even the slightest of details which could possibly be checked out and only one has actually checked out positively.

    The session which has checked out was an Expanded Dianetics session received in 1973 wherein I recalled living in the Mozart household in Salzburg Austria at the age of 13 in 1776. Mozart was home and working on composing his violin concertos.

    It turns out that a person named Franz Xavier Gerl was a bass singer who arrived in Vienna in 1789 as part of the troupe of E. Shikaneder, also an old friend of Mozart's from their Salzburg days. Gerl had studied music with Leopold Mozart as a 13 year old in 1776 while living in Leopold's house in Salzburg. Wolfgang was home that year and was working on his violin concertos.

    Gerl went on to study Mathematics, Physics and Philosophy at the University of Salzburg but then chose the life of a singer and composer of operettas and joined a traveling opera company. He arrived in Vienna in 1789 and he and Shikaneder both renewed their aquaintances with Mozart. Shikaneder formed a liason everntually leading to the opera "The Magic Flute". Gerl was the first one to sing the role of Papageno in the 1791 premier of that opera.

    I studied Math and Physics in college, have an interest in philosophy and became attracted to Mozart at age 19 and was compelled to studied everything which I could find on his life. It just seems as if there is too much there to be a coincidence and that the session which I ran in 1973 has been proven to be an actual past life incident.
    Lakey
     
  5. Ulduz

    Ulduz Patron with Honors

    Re: Recalling details from past lives

    I think your story of your past life is true because of a very large number of real events that cannot be explained by the coincidence. Your past live is much more interesting than my past life - I lived approximately 2,500 years ago in Northern India and belonged to the Brahmin cast. I did not try to recall my life in greater detail because nothing I learned back then could be applied to the modern world. But some people whose past lives are close to our times might find benefit in recalling their past occupations.
     
  6. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    If we're going to talk about past lives, then I again highlight two cases where the pc went "track". One was in the org doing Book One, and was stuck in something that wouldn't lift. So I asked for something earlier similar. The pc started strangling and gagging. "What was that?" "I was hung in 1885" Whether the pc went and tried to verify any information, I don't know.

    Another was a friend who went "track" without even being in session. He started recounting the details of being an SS officer in Nazi Germany, and there were certain details that came up which were verified.

    I'm not aware that in either case the pc developed any OT Powaz but as an outside observer to two people's lives, I have little choice but to accept that there is evidence supporting past-lives for some people. As the world's population spins out of control the proportion of people with more than one life on 'track' is getting to be a minority.

    It wouldn't surprise me if I discovered that on my own 'track' I was a 19th Century London Night-Carter.

    RPX
     
  7. Past lives are pretty fascinating especially when two people happened to be the same person in a past life and have different version of events. As in the case whichTory mentioned when Julius Cesar met Julius Cesar at Denny's. in Los Angeles one day.
     
  8. Ulduz

    Ulduz Patron with Honors

    This is something I strongly disagree with -- two different people cannot be the same person in the past life. Of course, if you follow Kabala you might conclude that the story you described is real. But all other religions based on the past life principle exclude this possibility. More likely, either one of the persons you described or both of them had undergone incorrect procedure known in Scientology as auditing. As I said before, LRH distorted the regression procedures presented in books on Yoga and Buddhism, so the results of auditing are unreliable. Once in a while you might elicit a correct past life recall from your pc, but usually it is crap.
     
  9. Lesolee (Sith Lord)

    Lesolee (Sith Lord) Patron Meritorious

    Re: Buddhist Recall Procedure

    Could you give us an overview of this correct Buddhist procedure or point us to an online text containing it?
     
  10. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    Marc Antony. Please to meet you!

    1. When a person remembers a past life in relation to someone famous, they can often mistake themselves for being that famous person. As Arnold Rimmer learned to his embarrassment that he was Alexander the Great ............................................................................................................ 's chief Eunuch. Therefore if multiple eunuchs met each other, they could all believe that each was Alexander the Great, but they would all have different memories of the events.
    2. The bit of Universal Consciousness that snapped off to manifest as you, as it learns becomes quite capable of snapping off further bits to gather more experiences. So when those segments cross each others' paths, they will have the same memories of the same events.
    RPX
     
  11. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Actually, Hubbard explains why (in his opinion) you get all these people claiming to be famous historical figures. He stated they were "overwhelmed" by that person in the past.

    None of my past life memories are of anyone famous.
     
  12. But of course Hubbard was not one of these people who happened to be overwhelmed by the famous historical figures by claimed to be in a past life, he really was those famous historical figures in his past lives.
     
  13. Ulduz

    Ulduz Patron with Honors

    Re: Buddhist Recall Procedure

    There is no online text that I know of. I'll give an overview tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
  14. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Once one believes a past life is real, more info starts to come to life.

    Thanks for your vote of confidence. Once I started to become convinced that I lived a previous life as F.X. Gerl, I gained access to more information and as a result, more of that life has opened up to me.

    The full Grove Encyclopedia of Music article on Gerl is now on the internet on Wikepedia. Also, there is an opera called "The Philosopher's Stone", dating from 1790, which is a prequel to "The Magic Flute". The Philosopher's Stone was put on by the Shikenader troupe in Vienna, premiering in Sept, 1790, exactly one year before its sequel, Mozart's Magic Flute premiered. The "Philosopher's Stone" had 5 composers. Shikaneder himself wrote the text; the main Kapelmeister was a young 22 year old named J.B. Henneberg who wrote the overture and many of the arias, Shikaneder, wrote a couple of arias as did F.X. Gerl and his tenor friend Schacht. It was discovered recently, in the early 1990's that two of the arias were written anonymously by Mozart, including the catchy "cat" aria.

    All the arias from "The Philosopher's Stone" are now on youtube, including the two arias written by Gerl.

    It is funny, I had the session in 1973 and then had a dream in 1973 where the name Franz Gerl was mentioned. I did some research and found that Gerl was a well known basso in Vienna and then nothing new came along for 29 years. Only when I read the Grove encyclopedia article in 2002 did more information open up to me and then when I discovered the existence of the opera, "The Philosopher's Stone" in 2005 and much more information flooded in.

    Now that I know all this, it seems as if more aspects of this life have opened up to my memory but, to be honest, what I think I am now remembering might simply be a construct my mind is piecing together from this large amount of new information.
    Lakey
     
  15. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Of course, that must be true. Don't you know, the C of S and Hubbard often stated that Scn is the only game in the universe where everyone wins but in truth it is the only game in Hubbard's universe where Hubbard always wins.

    I believe it was Ted who stated, "If something turned out well, Hubbard took the credit; if something turned out badly, someone else took the blame" Thus it follows that Hubbard could claim he was Buddha, Cecil Rhodes, etc. and no one could question that but all those guys claiming they were Jesus, Julius Caesar or Cleopatra, well they were all delusional.
    Lakey
     
  16. Hi Guys! I am a new member to this forum.

    I was in the S.O. for a time and a Scientologist for a lot longer.
    I knew Paul 'Dull Old Fart' personally at AOSHUK. He is a great writer of Sci Fi.

    I am not here to judge anyone or anything. I would just like to chat with old friends/coleagues and maybe some new ones about the general subject addressed by things like SCN and DN.

    I was born into the subject as my family joined the 'Church of New Faith' (Australia) in 1964. I was actively involved from Kiddie stuff through HQS and on to NED for OT'S level until I discovered women and went out into the real world!
    I am a free-thinker, aspiring writer and film-maker now living back in Perth, WA.

    If you have a question about my experiences with SCN, Hubbard, David Miscavige or just old Sea Org historical stuff, I can only offer my memories and those of freinds or family that they conveyed to me. We had huge amounts of good times and just a little amount of intense stress at others which all helped me to become more aware of the universe and more able to survive as an individual.

    Hubbard generally mentioned in several lectures (PDC) (SHSBC) that there were probably and theoretically more than just the eight dynamics. He mentioned ETHICS as Nine, LOVE as Ten and AESTHETICS Eleven, etc... as higher ones for an Able-Being to experience and learn about. He hinted that Native State/ Static/OT/'GOD' was so far above these levels that we would not attain a proper knowledge or experience of that subject until we evolved from Planetary consciousness through Galactic and on to Universal.

    We know that this MEST universe (physical) is of a lower order below the Astral and that is below the Causal. (Godhead/OverSoul) ...Whatever you name it is above that.

    Hubbard was doing 'okay' during the very early days (50's), I thought, because he was probably being "overshadowed" by a higher being or inteligence who channelled through the LRH Human lifeform.
    It is also obvious to many people that this Causal or Astral being could no longer fully utilse that channel when LRH's earthly ego muddied the transmissions.

    Hubbard probably realised he had been mostly 'cut off' in 1959 when earthly karma took over his life events and possibly again 1963 when he had a heart attack at The Manor and he became aware that he was not the actual 'Source'of the wisdom.

    None of us are the 'Source", but we can listen to the spiritual communications and apply them to our own paths towards enlightenment.

    So for me 'The Highest OT Level' would be...releasing the unwanted and un-usefull baggage of the past timetrack and accepting, without taint, those promptings of the Supreme Beingness towards your long journey home.

    Take a look at "The Book of Urantia", if you dare, that stuff is higher wisdom and knowledge than anything that Hubbard was able to channel from above.

    I would guess that anyone interested in Galactic Order knowledge would appreciate that material so long as they remeber that truth changes according to viewpoint and awareness level.

    I offer you words of earthly wisdom towards Soul Communion,Confirmation, Transformation and Ascension to the higher planes of existence and OverSoul beyond that.

    Leave all the anger, pain, hatred, confusion, sadness and lonliness behind and remember that we are all ONE and always have been since we were the shining and beautiful Children of God sent out into the Creation to experience the sheer wonder of all Existence.

    The Axioms will always be your guide. Love your fellow mankind.

    You know what to do...Flourish and Prosper! (With a splurge of joy and fun)!

    The Old Man is gone forever and his soul is free.

    I may choose to write again soon when I get time off from my acting. Please do write to me if you wish, But no political and rabid stuff as I find it very boring.

    Love you guys!

    Christopher Van Buren

    :yes:
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  17. darksing

    darksing Patron

    Hi,
    I "accidently" looked onto ESMB and found your entry. "accidently" ?
    You are a very wise man. Thank you for this communication.

    By my observation my understanding of the material, e.g. PDC tapes, is now very much different as it has been in the past. I could define it as being more "on source" or whatever. I cannot get the comminication behind it. Maybe it is my "fault" but it could also be possible that "source" is a bit far away and cannot be reached as esay as it could be reached in the past.

    Too much "dirt" on the commlines. I also think that much confusion about spirituality and source had been put on the net and thus making it impossible to see.

    But your comm arrived at my universe. Good to know that there are beings out there that can still have an impact.
     
  18. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Hi. Welcome to ESMB.

    I don't remember your name and need some prompting. When were you at SH?

    Paul
     
  19. Ulduz

    Ulduz Patron with Honors

    Following is an overview of a past lives recall procedure (regression).Usually, two persons are in involved in this procedure -- Subject, who tries to recall his past live, and Conductor, who guides the Subject. The procedure starts with a recall of similar events that took place in Subject’s current life (there is a similarity with pc auditing). The Subject is seated comfortably in a chair with his eyes closed. The best place to start is to ask him what he had for breakfast this morning. The Conductor asks the Subject to describe the breakfast meal, its taste and color. “Was the meal hot or cold? Did you enjoy it or did you take it without giving the test consideration? How often you take this meal?” , asks the Conductor. There plenty of room to improvise with the questions, there is no set of specific instructions.
    Then comes a new series of questions, “Describe the plate used to serve the meal. What is its color? Does it have any embroider? Describe the kitchen place where the plates are stored. What is its size? How tall is it? “ Few more questions like these and the discussion moves to the yesterday breakfast. Some questions could be repeated, while it is advisable to add new ones. “What is the weather like outside the window? Is it cold or warm? Describe the sounds you hear outside the window.”, asks the Conductor.
    The number of breakfasts recalled depends on quality of recollection -- sometimes you have to ask the Subject to recall 15 or 20 morning meals in order to get a good recollection.
    After that the Conductor moves to the series of repetitive events that occurred less frequently; such events could be trips to a beach. The Subject is asked to recall the views, sounds and smells he experienced at the beaches. Please, keep in mind that this is a lengthy procedure, it requires a lot of patience from both participants.
    Finally the Subject is asked to recall what he was doing on a certain date at a certain hour. “Where were you on October 12, 2007 at 5:pM”, the Conductor might ask. If the Subject is unable to answer, the Conductor must repeat the previous steps until the desired result is achieved. The session could be interrupted at any moment and even suspended until the next day.
    Now comes a very important part -- the Subject is asked to recall what he experienced 5 or 10 minutes after his birth.
    Warning 1: Do not ask the Subject to recall the birth itself -- it may create a lot of confusion and make your job as a Conductor much harder.
    Warning 2: Do not ask the Subject to recall what he experienced during the prenatal state - this is extremely confusing and, most likely, you’ll get from him a bunch of crap instead of real memories (this is one of the areas where the Scientology auditing went wrong)
    Warning 3: Never ever ask the Subject what he experienced between the lives. This is one of the fastest ways to insanity manifested by hallucinations. There is a good reason why certain things should remain untouched.
    Now comes the most important part - you are moving the Subject right into the past live. The death is a traumatic experience, and you do not want your Subject to move through it. Rather than asking her to recall the death, ask her to recall what she was doing 2 hours before she passed away. When she does that, move her further away from death and ask what she was doing, say, 478 days before her death. At this point you could ask her what country she is in, what year it is and, in general, who she was in her past life.
    Ask the Subject to recall several episodes from her past life before asking her to reproduce the words she heard during a conversation. She may not be able to do it right away, but if keep prompting her by saying, “Listen closely to what people around you are saying. Describe their voices -- are they angry or calm? Describe the person who is talking most of the time”, and so on, eventually you’ll hear her talking in unknown language.
    Warning 4: Do not move your Subject to the second previous life unless she remembers the first past life as good as she remembers her current life. This is the most common mistakes that the Conductors, even the experienced ones, make. This mistake results in false recollections known as fantasizing. None of this stuff is real. The first sign of trouble comes when your female Subject says she was a man in one of her past lives, or your male Subject says he was a woman in his past life. People, even homosexuals, do not change their sex as they move from one life to another.
    Word of caution: You can run this procedure on yourself, as I did, but it becomes very time-consuming -- your mind wonders to the things unrelated to the procedure (did I feed my dog? My boss is an asshole, etc) and you lose concentration all the time. But if you have a Yoga training, you can go right on.
     
  20. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Thanks for detailing how you are getting the results you are claiming.

    Have you ever heard of "False Memory Syndrome"?

    If so, what are your thoughts regarding it? How would you guard against it in your practice?

    I'd be interested in case studies where this was used, and people recalled events that could be objectively confirmed, or where their language use was objectively verified.

    In all my years (20) of delivering sessions, I have never once had someone recall something from a past life that was objectively verifiable, or had them speaking in languages other than the ones they spoke prior to start of session. I have had some great results where the client departed feeling that their condition was improved, and confirmation from them, later, to the effect that they still thought so, but I've never had the sort of results you are describing. If what you are describing is valid, it would forever change modern science and people's understanding of the universe. In order to find out how the universe began, all we'd have to do is say "go back to a period 14.8 billion years ago and describe what you see and feel". I find this to be an extraordinary claim. I would also find it extremely unlikely that you could have anyone tell you exactly what they were doing or thinking at any arbitrarily chosen time, particularly as that time got further and further away from the present moment.

    For instance, I invite all readers to try a simple exercise:

    "recall exactly what you were doing six years, seven months, three weeks, four days, eleven hours, 48 minutes and fifteen seconds ago".

    If you CAN do that, I would posit that is extraordinary, and you are likely a very high functioning autistic person with unique recollective abilities. If, like me, you'd have to do a lot of calculating, shifting an sorting memories around, comparing them to your resume or calendar, and still don't recall the exact activity, but know kind of where you were within a few miles, and what your job was, etc., that might help pin it down, but would you be SURE? And if you could actually go back to that moment, physically, do you think what you recalled would be identical to the situation you found? Would you bet your life on it? Would you base your beliefs and present goals on the accuracy of that memory?

    I sure wouldn't.

    BTW, I did this exercise, and I did come up with sensory impressions and a narrative for them. They might even be correct. However, I wouldn't pretend it was a certainty.