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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

Discussion in 'Stories From Inside Scientology' started by lkwdblds, Feb 28, 2009.

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  1. Hector alive and well? How many other Ex's are lurking out there?

    Reconnection is a wonderful thing! I think we should have some more regular meet ups for Ex's and Independants in local areas.

    Thanks, Lakey, for posting more of your memories of the older days, with names, dates and places. Some Ex's are having troubles with gaps in their memories, and I think this kind of informal history keeping is really valuable, for critics, too!

    Keep up the good work! :)
  2. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    "Informal history keeping"

    Sweet - I like the name informal history keeping. Its fun, I am pretty good at it so why not do it. Years from now, when no one who was around is left, there will be a record of what took place at that very interesting time and place. If some serious historian wants to do a serious historical work on this, there will be accurate information around from all of our posts. It can't hurt to write up this fun stuff and maybe it will help.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2009

    OHTEEATE Silver Meritorious Patron


    messengers serve a purpose, to keep the staff from finding out that the Commodore is an old fool. He does not have to rub elbows with the riff raf. He does not have to argue or engage in actual question answering. He can just not answer anything insulting, like someone noticing he is an old fool.
    He can erect an image based on what he does best, writing fiction, and let others admire him from afar. Very afar.
  4. smartone

    smartone My Own Boss

    lkwdblds, great story. I'm just catching up here. What a nasty bunch of staff on the Apollo! I often wondered why they all look so miserable in the Apollo video.
  5. DartSmohen

    DartSmohen Silver Meritorious Patron

    Smartone, It wasn't always so. Up until Jan 69 we had a good time. We made a game out of it. Only after the ship left Corfu (where some of the main "players" left) did it all start to turn to hell.

  6. Ted

    Ted Gold Meritorious Patron

    Interesting list!

    I would say, based on my experience, these would be the people who allowed you to be you--as you are, and as you could be. :coolwink:
  7. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Astute remark Ted

    Thanks for the astute comment, Ted. Yes, nearly all these people granted me beingness. Another trait they had was that they were being themselves or what LRH called being "in valence". There were not phonies among them. A couple of them, mainly in the entertainer categories were not friends of mine. One such guy was Dick Glass, the Eloquent Elephant, he never granted me beingness or anything, I just thought he was a very good entertainer. All the other categories are people who granted me beingness or who I saw granted others beingness on a consistent basis.

    By the way, I read a large part of your story yesterday because I like your posts and I am pretty sure that if I had known you back then, you would also be on the list.
    Last edited: May 17, 2010
  8. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron

    Sad Truth

    Well Mike, that is the sad truth isn't it.

    I like much of the tech, but in the ethics area he was really fucked.:grouch: :angry:
  9. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron

    That Video Shows The Real Story

    Yes, I recommend that video to all to see for yourself the sad truth.

    The girl who got me in was there as a D-of-P and from her and other sources

    they tried to make up for it with lots of good sex. Lots of promiscuity.
    (The first of the 5 or 6 part video on the Apollo and more)
  10. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Oh Yes!!!

    Dunno exactly Ted's relationship to tech right now. But posted several success stories of his work, and he is in the very rare group, of only two, described as the best auditor in the world. The other Was Phil Spickler, who
    is one of the greatest persons I ever met. Maybe others have made such statements. All I can say is that in near a decade these are the only two
    I've posted or known about who had that statement made about them.

    Don't mean others didn't think that, they just didn't write that.
  11. Ted

    Ted Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you for placing me in some good company. :)
  12. Ted

    Ted Gold Meritorious Patron

    To paraphrase an old Hubbard quote, it is easy to lift a person up because you have his help; it is difficult to hold him down.

    The word "tech" still disgusts me. It is LRH's pretentious positioning with science. The only way I can stomach it is in reference to technique; that would be communication and perceptual techniques designed to help the client/pc live better--in his own estimation. Then it makes sense.

    Grade Zero is still the OT Grade with all other Grades being in support. The Bridge should be circular similar to the diagram of the Eight Dynamics with Grade Zero in the center.

    I believe in clearing if we say it is helping a person get his thoughts and feelings in order. A little of this goes a long way. Subjective processes need to be run with lots of objective processes. The old 20/10 technique was on the right track. That's 20 minutes subjective/10 minutes objective processing for the duration of the intensive.

    The next big case booster is open discussion, not permitted in scientology. The internet facilitates that. The next gradient is face-to-face. Some, if not many, people can't physically tolerate the emotion of face-to-face discussion and origination. Lots of people are still hiding, can't even lurk without feeling guilty. I know because I was at first.

    Auditor-pc two-way communication is typically not two-way; it is one-way. When friends or associates come for help or a sympathetic ear I often ask, "Do you want me to just listen or do you want some feedback?"

    Many years ago I grew weary of helping a client/pc clean his slate only to have life or the organization write on it before he could. As soon as possible, a client/pc should get an answer to some such question as, "What has been your main purpose in life?" or "What are you trying to accomplish?" The answers can change as time marches on. Auditing programs and directions then support the client, not the organization.

    Hubbard said some good things. I particularly enjoy the basic auditing skills. Unfortunately, he left a mess of scientology with his self-importance and self-interest imbedded in the subject. If I need to separate him out with a crowbar, I will, and do publicly.

    That's the short answer to your curiosity. :coolwink:
  13. This gets my Scots up!

    Big hug to Ted for having so much common sense about what really helps people! :)

    I don't in any way want to derail this thread, but I just posted in another thread my utter contempt for the way children and young adults are treated in being recruited for the Sea Org, and staff, and the way they are treated while serving. No one should have to endure that, especially a young person just starting out in life.

    Parent lurkers, and others who care about the well-being of children, be very watchful and alert about this. Under no circumstances allow them to be recruited into the present day Sea Org, the evidence is clear that they will be gravely harmed in that criminally abusive organization. Staff is not much better.

    No one under the age of twenty-one, who has not already graduated from high school and gotten a little reality on real life as a grownup should EVER join the SO or staff.

    Most kids and their parents are routinely lied to by recruiters, it is a clear pattern of practice and a whole lot of Ex Cadet Corps and Ex SO kids, now older, have grounds for a class action lawsuit against the COS. Most families have no idea what they are getting themselves into, and to what kind of an insanely abusive organization they are giving their children's lives over to. Wake up people!

    Lakey, great job on recounting early So Cal history, see others are chiming in to fill in some gaps, very worthwhile...keep sifting through those old memories!
    This is valuable! Thanks for taking the time and energy to tell your stories and respond to others memories and questions. :happydance:

    I used to be more hopeful about reform within COS, but the more I learn about the current scene in reality, I think the ENTIRE Sea Org should just be totally abolished and obliterated from the Scientology Organization. Replace it with staff management organized by geographical regions, rather than a total top-down worldwide hierarchy. Let the "church" evolve and break up into schisms based on local culture and interests, like all others do, it's progressive growth and change, it's evolution. That's the only prayer Scientology has of surviving as an organization. Too many crimes, too many overts, too many disaffected staff, SO, public and Ex's, not to mention all the critics, for it to survive as the fascist totalitarian cult that is is at present. Too much harm has been done to too many for it to survive, as it is, and too many people are watching who want all the many abuses; physical, sexual, financial, mental, emotional, spiritual and legal, to stop.

    I'm so glad Lakey, you kept your kids out of the SO and that you finally blew yourself. I REALLY wish you had called the police and pressed charges for kidnapping, etc. of your daughter at the time. I understand why you tried to use their flawed ethics reporting system at the time to put ethics in on what is a systemically unethical program (recruiting minors to the SO).

    I think you just finally really woke up to how abusive the COS really was and is. It must have been quite a reality check for you after your years in, your years of service and the money spent supporting the COS. I'm really glad that you and your family are out and that you are talking things over with people here.

    I know that you and other individuals feel they have gotten good gains from their study of Scientology, and I don't want to invalidate that, but I have to say that I personally don't think all of the criminal actions and abuses by the church are exonerated by the few good gains that some individuals have found for themselves. Especially the crimes against children and young people, who by rights should be the most protected ones in any ethical, sane group of people, especially those who claim to be aware of themselves as spiritual beings.

    And what's up with the "ethics" rule that if somebody is upstat-read making lots of money, recruiting more servants for the COS, then none of the rules apply to them and they are allowed to get away with their crimes and overts against their fellow workers or worse, their parishioners, with the collusion, collaboration and consent of the rest of the leadership of their "church"! What kind of leadership is that? This "ethical system" is a joke, and a bad one at that. How can anyone dignify this kind of activity by calling it "their religion"? How blind and stupid can people be??? I apologize to my friends who consider themselves Freezone or Indie Scientologists, and still feel that it is their "religion", if these words are offending, but I am just furious about this issue, and YOU SHOULD BE TOO!

    Sorry Lakey, abuse of children just sets me off, and gets my Scots up, royally! I want to go into battle over situations like this. I will NEVER forgive Scientology or ANY of it's leadership for creating, fostering and condoning the kinds of abuses that have historically happened in the SO and on staff, and that are ongoing TO THIS DAY. Criminal activity should be reported and prosecuted.

    The brainwashed parents who are themselves slaves to the cult are equally culpable in my mind and should lose their parental rights! For every one who stood up and got angry and protective of their kid, Lakey, is another who just caved in to the pressure, and abandoned their parental responsibility. I know that some of them are ESMB members and will likely be very hurt and offended by my telling it like it is here. I dislike hurting anyone, but sometimes telling the truth is called for. For ESMBers and Ex's, consider this a reality check. Consider this a severe reality adjustment, all you lurkers! GRRRR! :angry:

    Everyone- if you have any knowledge of crimes against children and minors (and others) in the COS, REPORT IT to local law enforcement and your local District Attorney. Do the right thing.
  14. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Could you do me a small favor?

    Ted, this is one of the finest posts I have ever read! It is short but is still a comprehensive overview of Scientology and Hubbard and how Hubbard imbedded himself into the subject, often to the detriment of the subject. I would really appreciate it if you would post this exact post on my thread, Education and Study in Scientology where you have already been actively posting. (I tried to copy it and stick it over there myself but don't know all the right keys to push).

    Your opening quote of Hubbard's that "It is easy to lift a man up...." is a reminder that Hubbard was not all bad but a dichotomy of good and bad. Those words are very inspiring and uplifting and I can hear him saying it in my mind from an earlier hearing of the tape he said it on. Any being who had the capacity to make that statement had a real streak in him of wanting on some level to be a friend to mankind. When he had it and for how long are questions not yet fully answered. Why did he move away from this beautiful concept.

    I only now just played the full 20 minute video by SIr Ken Robinson which you posted on that same Education and Study website. What an incredible video and and incredible man! I particularly enjoyed the example of the little girl who could never sit still and was always moving around and was sent to a psychologist to be treated for this condition only to have a wisened psychologist tell her that the girl was a natural dancer and to send her to dance school. The girl went on to become a great dancer, open her own dance school, collaborate with Andrew Lloyd Weber, become a millionaire and bring enjoyment to millions of others. The alternative which may well have occured under many practioners was to have her take ritalin or prozac to calm her down!

    Scientology and Hubbard were able to attract many talented and brilliant people such as this girl. Though not given prozac, their creativity was squelched, knowingly and with great determination, so that they could become Ronbots to help "clear the planet". I remember repeatedly being told that in a tough situation try to figure out what Ron would do and do it. I believed that and practiced it, sometimes, in all fairness, it worked for me.

    Just imagine how powerful Scientology would be today if the creativity of all the people who past through its doors both as staff and public was acknowledged, nurtured and developed in the manner that the wise psychologist allowed the little girl's dancing ability to be developed instead of drugging her. Had Hubbard developed Scientology along those lines, I think that Scientology today would be a huge, powerful force for good in the World, almost unstoppable and maybe 100 times larger and more accepted than it is now.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2009
  15. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Finally - the Vintage long Sweetness and Light post that I desired and it is a doozy!
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2009
  16. Ted

    Ted Gold Meritorious Patron

    Done. :wink2:

    I believe Sir Ken was describing the difference between education and indoctrination. This is a problem with shifting definitions. Hubbard was probably right in that definitions are shifted on purpose for PR reasons. Today, we have more indoctrination and less education yet we are calling it "education." For another example, in medicine we have disease care but call it health care.

    Your point about wasted talent is well taken. It is one of the things that irritated the beegeezus out of me when I was in. Perhaps there is a lesson there in the pitfalls of centralized government.

    One of my favorite group processes came to me some years ago when I was selling vacuum cleaners. In sales meeting each morning we'd go over the sales and the near misses of the previous day. The sales person described his sales presentation. Then the process, open for group discussion, was, "What did we do? What did we learn?" This is something the U.S. Congress should do. Like Hubbard, however, they have vested interests that will not permit the process to run.

    Imagine that. All the talent of scientology pooled, open discussion on tech and policy! But... As Hubbard has said, you can't run the time track backwards. :no:
  17. Did my nickname just change?

    Hey Lakey, thanks for your understanding...I'll try not to rant like that too often! I haven't even gotten into "study tech" yet...:whistling: :D ! Thanks for your very kind words about this post, and for not taking any offense where non was meant...:)

    Say, am I Sweetness and Light or am I Sweet and Low? (LOL!) I know I've always wanted to be taller, button on that is mostly flat, thank you! :p

    Hopefully, I am a pure and natural sweetener (think honey, bees, and flowers blooming!) and not an artificial sweetener (chemicals, bad for us, yuck!)

    I'm just having a little fun with you here, I grant you your beingness and you grant me mine, which is why we are such good pals! :D

    Slips of the tongue are sometimes really funny, like here! Happy Halloween to you and your family, and to everyone. :)

    I think it's o.k. to like Ron for what you see as the good he has done for you and others. Also to be grateful for any good you realized or gains you got from your membership in Scientology. Every one's experience is so subjective and personal. I also understand the Ex's who are just flaming ranters and critics, let's grant them their beingness, too! :thumbsup:

    Ron in person could be a very charismatic, charming and persuasive guy (as are many sociopaths, which is the way I read his character). I've watched all the tapes and heard most of the lectures that are available to public. He was a very colorful character who made his own path in life and played by his own rules...I can relate to him as a pirate and a rebel... :D And yet I'm very glad that I never drank the kool-aide.

    That Ron's behavior with others degenerated over time seems clear, I think drink, drug use, mental and physical health issues all took their toll. Gadfly is right, it's important to as-is Ron and everything else about Scientology. It's like sifting the wheat from the chaff, for some folks it is more wheat than chaff, and for others, it's mostly chaff.

    I would never tell the Freezoners and Indies who are practicing their beliefs (and hopefully their principles) to stop, and I don't want to impinge on them. They are within their rights to think and live as they will, so long as they are harming none. :thumbsup: (The ancient reade.)

    I think the image of Ron was a really cool image to follow for a lot of young guys, and I really understand how if you only look at the PR, how Scientology just seems wonderful. But sadly, we know that's not the reality of the organization, and we also know more and more about the truth of Ron's real life, too, beyond the glossy world savior PR image Scientology tries to sell the world (literally!).

    I can understand how hard it would be to give up a sense of hero worship after modeling your life's actions on him and his teachings, when you are thinking that he is SUCH a good guy.

    My concern is for the true believers and loyal officers who are in Ron's valence so much that they lose their sense of up and down, right and wrong, what is in their own best interest and that of their loved ones... A lifetime of "What would Ron do?" pretty well induces and fosters the surrendering their own identity to his valence.

    I'm not saying that you ever did that Lakey, but for sure I have known Scientologists who just literally worship the man as if he were the second coming, and he himself liked to promote an image of himself as Maitreya, the Buddha that is to come. This was just a bamboozle, as far as I can see. Unless he really believed it about himself, which is more evidence of his having his own psychotic breaks with reality, which others close to him have reported.

    He was a Boy Scout and an Eagle Scout, as such he did learn a very strong moral code, and was taught to help others daily, wherever possible. (I was a girl scout- "Do a good turn daily" was our motto.) So it's not all black or white, there are a lot of shadings of gray, especially for those who were in back in the "good old days" (?!?) when things were a tad smaller, saner, more fun, more experimental, an adventure, whatever, until they weren't anymore.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2009
  18. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    More inspiring words from you.

    All the talent of Scientology pooled, what a concept. We can't run the clock back but most of us are still around and would rally around a new leader. Were not too old to make major contributions. What is needed is a bold leader with a bold plan to reformulate Scientology into an organization that would reach its full potential.
  19. Ted

    Ted Gold Meritorious Patron

    I can appreciate the sentiment, but that's a bit like asking a new captain to step aboard the Titanic. Bold though he may be, there is a certain outcome built into the incident. :omg: Such a leader would also have to contend with a multitude of captain's chair captains who felt they knew best on how to right the ship. Once again... :omg:
  20. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Good points about the Scouts and also the old days. "Be Prepared" and "Do a Good Deed Daily" I guess you could say he followed those mottos but his weakness was that in addition to good deeds he did a lot of harm. Thanks for another post right from the heart.
    P.S. I edited out that Sweet and Low usage of your name. It was a stupid but cute mistake.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2009
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