ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

The Real Third Party by Mike Rinder

Discussion in 'Important documents' started by JBTrendy, Mar 5, 2010.

  1. JBTrendy

    JBTrendy Patron with Honors

    The Real Third Party
    Thursday, 18 February 2010 16:20

    There has been some discussion of late concerning the 3P that exists between “Scientology” and “Independents”.

    LRH states: The law would seem to be:


    It is very easy to see that two in conflict are fighting. They are very visible. What is harder to see or suspect is that a third party existed and actively promoted the quarrel. The usually unsuspected and “reasonable” third party, the bystander who denies any part of it is the one that brought the conflict into existence in the first place.

    One sees two fellows shouting bad names at each other, sees them come to blows. No one else is around. So they, of course, “caused the fight”. But there was a third party. Tracing these down, one comes upon incredible data. That is the trouble. The incredible is too easily rejected. One way to hide things is to make them incredible.

    This theory might be thought to assert also that there are no bad conditions that cause conflict. There are. But these are usually REMEDIAL BY CONFERENCE UNLESS A THIRD PARTY IS PROMOTING CONFLICT.
    If you look at the conflicts that Scientology is involved in, they range from “the Church” versus “Independents” to “the Church” versus “the media”, versus “the government”, “the French”, “the pharmaceutical companies”, “the psychs”, “the SPs”, “the squirrels”, “the out ethics public”, and on and on. Even the staff versus the public.

    There is an old principle of investigation: trace back who benefits. What purpose is there for all this conflict to be fomented. There is an easy answer for that – one that every Scientologist is aware of, and it is increasingly apparent to one and all that it has become more important than the orgs and delivering LRH tech. The IAS. Every conflict, every disaster affords a new reason that money needs to be donated to the IAS.

    But, LRH also says, you have to locate the hidden BEING behind the conflict.
    That’s also easy. Look to see who benefits.

    Who benefits from the IAS money? The Machiavellian Midget himself. It is this money that he uses to prop up his own PR and keep himself in power. It is this money that is used to buy empty buildings (as everyone just saw at the last IAS event) and generate PR about the “massive inroads” Scientology is making into the world with programs that are shown in PR videos at Miscavige’s events.

    Remember, The incredible is too easily rejected. One way to hide things is to make them incredible. That is the reason Scientologists cannot spot the real 3P. It is too incredible. How could the “Dear Leader” who has been responsible for the incredible expansion of Scientology, be a bad hat 3P? Well, he has conducted a campaign of PR by redefinition of words.

    The big lie he is perpetrating is that Scientology is expanding like never before. The evidence to “prove” this is the purchase/renovation and opening of “new” Ideal Orgs. In truth, MEST has been substituted for real expansion in a sleight of hand that has been so deft that most Scientologists don’t see it. Of course, every person who calls himself or herself a Scientologist naturally wants to see Scientology expanding. Who, other than a real SP, would not want others to achieve the gains they have achieved? Who, other than a real SP, would not want to destimulate the planet by getting as many people as possible to be able to erase their reactive minds? Who, other than an SP, would not want everyone to be able to read and understand what they are reading with Study Technology. And after all, we all want a Cleared Planet as our ultimate goal.

    The expansion of Scientology and the destimulation of the peoples of earth IS the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics. And even a new Scientologist knows that this is the formula that when applied enhances survival. So, how do you persuade otherwise intelligent, well-meaning people (that is, the Scientologists of the world) to ignore obvious outnesses? You make the outnesses seem small when compared to the greater good. The LRH example comes to mind – if a vaccine saved thousands of lives, but killed a few, is it a pro-survival solution? Of course. So if under Miscavige’s leadership the Church has expanded at “explosive” rates does it really matter if he has been beating people up, spending money like a Saudi prince, knocking hats off those junior to him, destroying the management infrastructure etc. etc. etc.? Of course not.

    But, what if that explosive expansion actually DIDN’T exist? What if those things that are said about Miscavige were not only true, they had in fact destroyed the very structure of organizations and management that LRH put in place, turning the executive echelon of Scientology into a mob of broken, mindless individuals, thus guaranteeing that no expansion would occur. What then?

    Then Miscavige would have to come up with a way of demonstrating “expansion” without really having any, using whatever resources were available. Miscavige doesn’t have competent management at his disposal. But, he does have MONEY. Hundreds of millions of dollars. And though money won’t buy you love, nor happiness, it will buy MEST. So, here is Miscavige the Magician’s trick. Scrap the LRH plan of building orgs to St Hill Size (too hard to do anyway – and then there are those damned staff that have to be gotten to OT in the orgs and there’s no management to organize that) and replace it with “Ideal Orgs”. Oh how clever. There IS an LRH policy called Ideal Orgs, so it sounds legitimate. And you just keep talking about Ideal Orgs and make it the “thing to do” and pretty soon everyone will forget about the St Hill size orgs. And slowly, but surely, you redefine even the concept of an Ideal Org to being “ideal BUILDING”. And then you tell everyone that this is THEIR problem and make them “part of the game”. So, the OT Ambassadors and the local OT Committees and all local Scientologists now buy into the laudable objective of having a nice building for their org. But building the org itself – the people and the theta – they drift quietly into the background (until it comes to “Grand Opening” when a lot of people are going to see the “Ideal Org” on video and the broken down, discarded staff from Int and staff from other orgs are shipped in to make it appear temporarily the place is something more than merely a building).

    So, Miscavige tells one and all that he is spearheading this massive expansion, proven by the “new” Ideal Orgs that are being opened. You hear it at the International events and you read about it in Freedom – pages and pages about Miscavige opening orgs (and not a mention of L. Ron Hubbard). And obviously anyone who says Miscavige is anything other than perfect is just an SP trying to destroy Scientology, because look at what he is doing and that IS the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.

    Or is he really just the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain?

    Or is he really the hidden Third Party that is too incredible for most Scientologists to spot?

    It’s easy enough to know. Walk into any one of these “Ideal Orgs” and see whether there is massive expansion occurring? Do they have more or less staff than was shown on the video for their “Grand Opening”? How many students are in the course room? How many Clears have they made since they “opened”? Funny that you aren’t hearing about the massive expansion in these individual orgs. All you see about them is Miscavige cutting the ribbon and spouting flowery doublespeak written by the LRH Biographer and some shots of empty buildings.

    Why you may ask don’t the people in the orgs say anything about this? It’s the old Roman strategy of “divide and conquer.” The few remaining staff huddled in the cold in the Buffalo “Ideal Org” think they are the only ones who have an empty org and that they are really out of step with the rest of the Scientology world. They don’t even want to ask the few remaining staff in Madrid what things are like over there. They’d probably be shot if they tried. And no public person wants to look like a fool after donating time and money to creating the “Ideal Org” and being good followers of the great COB and his “Command Intention” by questioning whether the org is doing well. They see it, but they quietly hope someone else is going to deal with it.

    But there is another beauty to this plan too. It keeps everyone quiet.

    Because anyone who points out the obvious is labeled an SP. “Obviously” if someone is saying the orgs aren’t full and expanding they are CI – or worse yet, they are gloating about it and want it that way. And who would gloat at the poor staff who are there working their asses off day in and day out? Only a pure SP. Again, propaganda by redefinition of terms. Pointing out the obvious is redefined as gloating. The staff of those orgs are in the unenviable position of having no management to guide them. No programs. No marketing. Those things have all been forsaken for the “Ideal Org Strategy” because of course, once the “Ideal Org” has been shown on a video, it has no importance to Miscavige any longer. You can’t show a building opening twice. People might get suspicious.

    It’s the big lie. It is clever. But when you analyse the FACTS, it is what it is. And until the real Third Party is spotted, the conflicts will continue.

    And one last thing. The proof of this pudding is this: as soon as someone DOES spot the real source of the conflict, THE SP, charge blows, the clouds part and a whole lot of shaking starts going on.

    Abilities return, sometimes chronic somatics even disappear, and things start going right again in one’s life. Hell, if you listen real close you might even hear scores of gentle “clicks” in the air, the sound of spines straightening up across the world.

    Written by Mike Rinder
  2. DavidM

    DavidM Patron with Honors

    Where did he post this?
  3. JBTrendy

    JBTrendy Patron with Honors

    Origin of post

    Sorry I should have mentioned that I found this post by Mike Rinder on

    All2U :)
  4. DavidM

    DavidM Patron with Honors

  5. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    Thus spoke the man with the dirty hands.
  6. byte301

    byte301 Crusader

    The 3p stuff is a bunch of crap. I never thought it was true. There are instances where a 3p is instigating a conflict but not always.

    The Ideal Orgs are empty, so he's right about that and he's right about dm's reasoning behind them imo.

    "And one last thing. The proof of this pudding is this: as soon as someone DOES spot the real source of the conflict, THE SP, charge blows, the clouds part and a whole lot of shaking starts going on.

    Abilities return, sometimes chronic somatics even disappear, and things start going right again in one’s life. Hell, if you listen real close you might even hear scores of gentle “clicks” in the air, the sound of spines straightening up across the world."

    Oh please.
  7. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    I haven't any first hand experience that this 3rd party phenomena is really true. :confused2:
  8. minnie

    minnie Patron with Honors

    I still laugh about the time someone organised for me and another to do a 3P Handling, and it was that person who turned out to be the 3P - indisputably. Very amusing to both me and the other person doing it. Unfortunately though the handling only resulted in 5 mins of improved relations so... :no: :unsure:
  9. AlphOhm

    AlphOhm Traveler of time/space

    Sounds like so much "Baawww" from someone who got tossed under the bus.

    Or so much natter from a criminal or accomplice.

    The real 3p is absent--he set up the policies to stamp out anything disagreeable to his delusions.
  10. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    I don't believe that the wonderful little leader could third party.

    If third parties exist the are work covertly not the overt way he allegedly gets his slaves to attack each other. No a third party would be someone claiming to be nice to both sides, someone whose opinion counts in church and in the freezone. That could only be Lwrong himself!:melodramatic:
  11. Ted

    Ted Gold Meritorious Patron

    L. Ron Hubbard is/was the Third Party. Is that so difficult to accept?
  12. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Ted, no. It's not hard to accept. He's the one that told us all sea org crew were the elite. He's the one that said that non flag staff were all DB's, he's the one that said etc etc etc. He was trying to be in with who ever he was talking to at the time. He was playing with affinity. Us and themming.
  13. Ted

    Ted Gold Meritorious Patron

    Finally! Now I am talking to someone who sees the "light."

    And to add, LRH "played" with affinity because he had none of his own.
  14. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Yes Ted he was certainly hungry to be loved. So desperate he wouldn't let any spare that anyone else could get hold of. He like the adoration too much to let anyone else get any, even his own family.
  15. Veda

    Veda Sponsor


    Fair Game and other abuses are OK if the "Church is expanding."

    This is warmed over Scientology cultism.

    As for the third partying others - Hubbard practiced it (as part of his private know-how or "tech") as early as 1951, although third partying others (to harm them) didn't, officially, become part of Scientology tech until the 1960s.
  16. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Yeah; Ron was 'using' His 3rd Party Tech since the beginning. Just ask Don Purcell.

    It wasn't till He'd used and researched it and refined it for years that he suggested that others use it too.

  17. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    Yes Mike gets around doesn't he. (Zinj pointed it out)

    David Mayo:

    "In June 1994, Monique Yingling, William Drescher, (Scientology lawyers), Michael Rinder (head of OSA),and Merril Emerick (Gerbode's lawyer), paid a surprise visit to Mayo/CNC lawyer, Jerold Fagelbaum. They announced that they had made a secret deal with Gerbode in which Gerbode had been persuaded to break his contract with Mayo, CNC and their lawyers. (Gerbode was, at that time, the main contributor to the Mayo/CNC legal defense fund.) RTC/Scientology tried to persuade Fagelbaum, to not continue trying to collect the 2.9 million dollar court awarded sanction Scientology(tm) was supposed to pay and not to pursue our counter claims against Scientology(tm).

    In late July 1994, I received phone calls from Mike Rinder, head of OSA. He wanted to me to fly to Miami and meet with OSA on my own, without my lawyer present, to discuss the above and a possible settlement offer. I repeatedly declined to meet him alone and I told him that if he had a settlement proposal to send it to my lawyer. He refused and ended the last phone call with a threatening, "Wait and see what happens next!" I found out about a week later."
  18. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    Well said La La Lou Lou!



  19. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    So I guess what happened later was the incident where he and Julie were arrested in the Dominican Republic for supposedly criminal activities? (The Dominican authorities received 3rd party by the FBI accusing David and Julie and their houselhold help.)

    Is it generally accepted that a buy off is why David Mayo has agreed to distance himself from the subject forever?
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010
  20. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    To obtain a good subjective reality on it, you'll need to spend ten of fifteen years being sued, and generally Fair Gamed, by Scientology. Then, after you've accumulated huge legal bills and debts to people who lent you money - and who, after years, want, or need, their money back - find yourself at a "settlement" meeting, with your own lawyers also wanting to be paid for years of work.

    It's not quite as simple as a "buy off."