ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Featured trepidatious

Discussion in 'L Ron Hubbard' started by cowboy, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    This is so exciting! Keep going, please, cowboy!
  2. exsomessenger

    exsomessenger Patron Meritorious

    YES, I get exactly what you are saying. I felt the twisting and turning to try and make things fit into what I was told was the TRUTH. Being a messenger was a little more of the mind fuck as you were an em·is·sar·y of the commodore.

    I can say for me I was extra scared to start telling my story out of fear of the church but (not trying to make myself special) because I was a messenger and was charged with the responibility of acting like a little commodore. Being a 2nd gen did not help either.

    good on ya Cowboy for just comming out and talking :thumbsup:
  3. LA SCN

    LA SCN NOT drinking the kool-aid

    Yes. What happened between David Mayo and Hubbard?
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  4. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Welcome, Cowboy. :yes:

    So glad you are here with all of Us. :coolwink:

    Looks like we were shipmates on the Apollo. There's some other former Apollo Crew here, too.

    Were you aboard when HRH came to visit? Love to hear your take on that.:yes:

  5. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    There are those of you - far & few between - that know the facts whereas so so many of us were fed 'stories' along the way as we giddlily worked our way up the bridge... and worshipping from afar.

    Those like you can help so much with the truth. What was really happening as bright young people became bilge rats on the Apollo & us almost hippies flocked into the orgs plunking down our earned, borrowed or inherited cash for services.

    I have questions... still. Did the "teck" really work in that some people shot up into OT but the strictures of standard teck ( one size fits all ) then invalidate rather than enhance those gains that seemed oh so fleeting and highly unstable.

    One day most any postulate worked & the next day car keys were lost forever ?

    I digress. Yes, I'd like to know where Ron was. What was Ron was doing.
    How come this & how come that.

    Others have shed some light on their face to face time with Ron & direct observations of what he was going.

    To me - and hopefully many many others - every piece of the puzzle that gets provided helps the path each of chose to take become better understandable.

    So many things came down from above, we bought, we never knew what was really behind it all.

    Help us understand how we managed to follow & strenghten L Ron Hubbard & the Co$.

    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  6. cowboy

    cowboy Patron with Honors

    Paul, hate to be boring, but the old man had no comment or upset or concern over perceived errors in his prior books. That concern only developed after his death. He did, however, occassionally have concerns over policy letters or bulletins that might have been issued erroneously.

    One example; (forgive the semicolon) A bulletin was submitted for authorization, to be published in his name. Such submissions generally had skeletal structures of previous writings and expansion of concepts encompassing new "technology". In this submission, the old man found evidence of "squirreling". Upon investigation of the part of the new bulletin to which he objected, it was discovered that the part in question was a direct quote from an earlier bulletin, issued in Hubbard's name.

    I was sent back to Flag to find the original bulletin, which had the "squirelled" section that was being quoted in the new bulletin. Find the squirrel who wrote the earlier bulletin in Hubbard's name, I was instructed, declare them and ship them out.

    Unbelievably, deep in mimeo files of Flag, I found the original bulletin, containing the text which Hubbard said was the work of a squirrel.

    The original bulletin was written by hand, and it was easy to recognize the flourishes of his handwriting. He'd written the bulletin a decade earlier, which contained the passages which he'd explained were the work of a rampant sp squirrel.

    When I returned he asked if the squirrel had been declared and kicked out.

    I studied his face, the thought fleetingly passing through my mind that maybe I should tell him it was he himself who'd written the passages which he now so venomously condemned.

    But I didn't. I assured him the matter had been taken care of.

    I have only rumors from reliable sources on his death, but nothing which I can repeat with any certainty.
  7. LA SCN

    LA SCN NOT drinking the kool-aid

    This is going to be either the Greatest Story Ever Told or boy, have we been had!

    :biggrin: :yes:
  8. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

  9. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    OK. How about that final "Loyal Officer Flag Order," that got cancelled by DM a couple of years later. Any comments on that?

  10. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    I don't know nuttin about nobody......honest.

    I like cowboy.

    I'd prefer a cowgirl, but... then I'm know to be, uh, picky.
  11. cowboy

    cowboy Patron with Honors

    Good lord, what a loaded question. I would, respectfully, ask that you be more specific and name the year. Their relationship was long and complex, with ups and down and turns and twists. So one cannot take a slice of time and necessarily say that was representative of the relationship as a whole.

    Let me explain a couple facts of life near Hubbard;

    1. Jealousies were always present, with subtle and sometimes not so subtle attempts at achieving power by those who worked with the old man. If one person became more greatly trusted, it would often create bad will among others. Such trust would be undermined by those with jealousies.

    2. Everything Hubbard was aware of for many years was heavily censored. One couldn't give him bad news, or complete news. He made erroneous judgements based upon this.

    I bring up these two facts as they played heavily in the Mayo/Hubbard relationship.
  12. LA SCN

    LA SCN NOT drinking the kool-aid

    Look, cowboy, if you ever saw the X-Files, I'm like agent Fox Mulder - I WANT TO BELIEVE!

    Help me and others put this saga of mans' history to rest - set us free with the TRUTH!

    Unlike Tom Cruise, we can handle it!
  13. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    This is such a great post! :thumbsup:

    I read the PR Series a few times and it was obvious to me that there was NEVER any concern for "truth". Like you say, Hubbard would find out WHAT PEOPLE WANTED - just as is done with a listing question (discover what the PC's item is) - and then he would TELL THEM that Scientology could GIVE THEM THAT.

    The Ruin-Finding Drill is THAT in a nutshell.

    The reg sits the prospect down, and with two-way communication, finds what is really bothering or "ruining" the person. Everybody has something, especially when they are younger, so a good reg can find it. Then the reg really smashes your face into this ruin, and asks you, "what would happen if THAT got worse"? Their aim is to get you wallowing in the hopelessness of this ruin or troubling area.

    Then the reg looks at you, and with well-practiced Tone 40 and feigned affinity says, "Scientology can handle THAT"! :happydance:

    Of course, the registrar has no idea whether Scientology can actually handle that (and probably it can't), BUT the reg learns the drill and the patter, and MANIPULATES PEOPLE into accepting and believing that Scientology will address and handle THAT.

    It is ALL PR. It is about finding out what a person wants and desires. It aims at discovering what any person needs. And then, TELLING THEM WITH TOTAL CERTAINTY THAT Scientology can handle that! Of course, that is a lie, but some people fall for the mocked-up "certainty".

    That is why surveys (in the PR & Marketing Series) were so key to Hubbard & Scientology.

    It is all deceit and trickery.

    I was put on a reg post for awhile. I learned all of this crap, but I could never do it comfortably. I felt like I was deceiving and tricking people. I got yelled at, and so forth, and eventually was taken off the post. My stats sucked! :thumbsup:

    I wanted to appeal to people's understanding, but boy would I get blasted when I said that. I was shown a few references from a tape where Hubbard says that people are "dramatizing circuits", that they have "no rights", and that they needed to be controlled and 8C'ed onto the srevice they need, because in their sorry banky low-toned state they were unable to make a sane responsible decision about anything.

    :omg: :omg: :ohmy: :ohmy:

    Manipulation Tech 101:

    1. Find out what a person (or many people) REALLY needs and wants (Non-Existence Formula)

    2. Convince them that YOU can provide it for them (even if you really can't).

    3. Get them BELIEVING in the promise that you can give them what they want.

    4. Hook them with their own HOPE that you hold the key to their dreams and salvation.

    Like I quote below from Hoffer, "They must know how to kindle and fan an extravagent hope".
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  14. cowboy

    cowboy Patron with Honors

    Yes, I met HRH and chatted briefly with him. He seemed cowed by the whole "Flag" deal as he hobbled around the upper decks. I would have liked to have had a more meaningful discourse with him..... like what did he think of his son.... but I didn't. And Hubbard never spoke of his father when I was with him. Of course, remember, I was only a child then.
  15. cowboy

    cowboy Patron with Honors

    What would you like to know? I can give specifics, but I think most here know the truth.
  16. LA SCN

    LA SCN NOT drinking the kool-aid

    Thank you and please don't be put off by any wildness I post. You are potentially the icing on a cake long in the making for us here at ESMB.

    Specific: Did Mayo save LRH life with auditing; Did LRH make Mayo Snr C/S Int?
  17. cowboy

    cowboy Patron with Honors

    Wow..... I believe you and everyone here has accurately guessed why that came to pass. Sorry for being nebulous. But isn't it obvious?
  18. LA SCN

    LA SCN NOT drinking the kool-aid

    Were you on Flag when Harriet Ingraham came to visit LRH in 1974/75? (that may be too young for you)

    Did Hubbard never suspect that Miscavige lied to him about Mayo to discredit him and get him off the line?
  19. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    For years I assumed that Broeker forged it. But I read something (forget where) relatively recently causing me to think that Hubbard had perhaps really written it.

  20. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    The whole business of the death of Quentin has never made much sense to me.

    The plates were off the car but near it.

    The car was registered to the Co$ at flag ( where, of course, Q was last on post )

    Supposedly his hair was found on a runner in the trunk of the car.

    He was in a coma for almost 2 weeks.

    Allegedly dies after 2 scientologists ( GO ?) left & his life support system was turned off.

    To me, the corker of oddest ( if true ) was he died one day & LRH was informed the next day.

    One of his children in the hospital in a coma & scientologists in attendance - and Ron NOT know anything about it ?

    Can you shed any light on this episode ?

    Or, have I bought into stories not true ?