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Unofficial Official statement of Anon's stance on Tory.

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by FacelessVoice, Jul 26, 2008.

  1. feline

    feline Patron Meritorious

    Hi Asagai-

    I wasn't referring to the natural ebb and flow of conversation but the mean spirited sniping that sometimes happens, thus de-railing a thread completely. That said, it doesn't happen here nearly as often as I see it on some other boards.

    Of course Hubbard was in error. And not a little bit. But that is only my opinion on the subject. Your mileage may vary.
  2. Escalus

    Escalus Patron Meritorious

    While it was happening, I wasn't the only one who PMd Tory and said just walk away from this before it got crazy. She was "done with" enturb THEN, per her communication to me.

    I hesitated to post this, but it isn't as though she didn't have anyone saying "it's bullshit, just walk away. Let them handle their own stuff."

    It's sad and stupid and it didn't have to end this way. On the internet there is always the jerk du jour. If a person finds themselves being one at some point - just hang around long enough, someone else will get the tag. rehab is very possible on the tubes.
  3. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    I love thunderdome.....but I dont think everyone is capable of getting it or of playing there with out getting hurt.

    Tory and Tommy are both examples of people who dont belong there for different but important reasons.

    What I have been impressed with is how "they" (anons) took things up IN thuderdome, which is a free for all madhouse, beat the sh*t out of the issue and then MOVED IT OUT TO THE GENERAL DISCUSSION area with conclusions.

    I dont really agree with their conclusions....I dont think their consensus takes into account a full understanding of Tory and what her past is...but it is their process.

    Interesting to watch.

    I think the honeymoon is over between anon and the old guard of critics. Not that Tory was the OG leader, but she was to some extent a symbol...

    And manipulating symbols is certainly easier that knowing the truth.

  4. Emma

    Emma Con te partirĂ² Administrator

    Oh I'm not saying she wasn't foolish to go there and then more foolish to take it seriously, but really, have you seen the shit they are coming up with now? Tory the OSA op, Tory the master manipulator, Tory the Evil witch, WE are ALL INNOCENT and it's ALL Torys fault.

    When you put it into perspective....

    A 60 year old woman wonders into the TD and gets trolled. She takes it seriously, gets upset and tells a friend. TG TG then (predictably) takes it up with MPB who he knew IRL through picketing. So really, did it need for her to be crucified, burned, belittled, disowned, and figuratively beaten to death over this? Really? Come on Esc, was that all necessary?

    Now they are bawwwing coz she leaves Enturb? WTF else is she supposed to do?
  5. asagai

    asagai Patron Meritorious

    I met Tory in London and have to say that largely she was not putting herself there as a celeb. She was more like an American tourist! :yes:

    Silly anons for wanting her autograph, silly Tory for reacting to the Thunderdome, silly anons for provoking her, silly CofS for being the CofS, silly everyone!

    We all make mistakes. We all can be forgiven. Thanks for the background info Esc.

    Anons will do what they will do. So will Tory, so will the CofS. Life moves on.
  6. feline

    feline Patron Meritorious

    I think that it is difficult to not keep going back in the hopes of salvage. But the trick is to resist the urge. A week is a long time on the Internet, after all and such things need to run their course.

    Thanks for PMing her and giving her your opinion on the matter. I think that she isn't the first of the older crowd to walk into Enturb thinking that she could handle the "hive-mind" only to discover that the phenomenon is different from anything before experienced.

    I do find this interesting though- she isn't the first to be held up on a pedestal only to be thrown down. And it seems that the higher you are placed, the more vicious the throwing is. Or maybe there is something I have missed?
  7. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    If it's a 'PR campaign' to discredit Tory and Tommy Gorman.. We really can't know it is.. But it looks like one!

    If it is! - Then strategy and goals is obvious. The shitstorm has qualities that OSA is either proud of having accomplished.. Or, if they weren't involved, are pondering ways to write it up for their stats anyway.

    Hubbard certainly gave 'em the 'tech' to do covert OP's. (I still need to find a certain PL/HCOB about infiltrating. In principle all scientologists were suggested/ordered to get into influential positions in society... Well,, there's a lot of texts I need to find re. all this.)

    Whatever.. They can infiltrate and make dissent about 'authority' in the enemy camp.. Some accomplisment that is! - When their own organization is in the hands of a downstat idiot and megalomaniac.. The salient point here is: Scientology needs to boot Miscavige the hell out!

    Hmm.. And just like I consider the 'takedown' of Tory and Gorman some PR lines.. So is the idea that Scientology needs to make a 'storm of dissent' inside their own organization.

    I'm revectoring the campaign you see.. But I'm sure that even scientologists will agree that the aim I take is both needed and much better.

  8. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well there is some evidence pointing to Tory being manipulated by OSA into going into the Thunderdome.....she says she was interested because of a flyer she was handed that made mention of the thunderdome, and who would hand out such? Certainly not anon....and other protesters in LA dont remember being offered such flyers...

    And Tory is a know quantity as far as how she will react and how insight full she is....(or not).

    Could it be that OSA used Tory's known usual reaction to everything as being OSA to get her to start accusing anon of being OSA?

    (baiting tommy gorman tommy gorman of course would be childs play....)

    Is OSA that smart?

    If so anon has a few more lessons to learn.....

  9. Escalus

    Escalus Patron Meritorious

    No question it's over the top with some of the more overdramatic types. I hold to my story of it simply being a matter of not understanding the cultures, one to the other. My early days on enturb weren't exactly all fun and games, and I'm not that much younger than Tory. It took a learning curve; and when you screw up and admit it you'd be surprised how fast these folks who "never forgive' turn around an forgive.

    It wasn't that I had to change my ideas or my opinions or my thoughts in order to participate smoothly, I simply had to adapt to the terrain. I've also maybe had the luxury of looking up more about memes and internet culture and how stuff develops online so it was easier for me to assimilate the phenomenon. Though i still sound like an over-moral old man from time to time. Tory could have taken another road in this, the movement is the thing that's important but she herself persisted.

    Is enturb better without Tory in it? Absolutely not, in the long run. The movement needs her, and when we win she's going to have had a big part in that. But we're talking about a discussion board here. there's plenty of anons who are still on good terms with her on a personal level. But I just have my own reactions to go by, and I have to say (talking only from my own experience) a person's feelings about enturb are directly proportionate to the degree they haven't assimilated the culture.

    I know that sounds like BS and being an apologist and all, and maybe I am I guess, but trying to find how - exactly how - the street actions and legal matters and general cultural inoculation going on against the cult relates to the activities of a discussion board makes for an interesting study.

    I've tried to say again and again; we don't yet "get" this phenomenon. That may just sound like a lot of nonsense but the more I think about it the more it's obvious we don't have a good guideline to follow in this.

    I'd never join in the reindeer games about Tory this Tory that, but since she's "a 60 year old woman" I'd be more inclined to expect a little more wisdom and grace than was demonstrated. And I would apply that to me as well. Everything can be learned from.
  10. Escalus

    Escalus Patron Meritorious

    As alex points out it seems the whole thing began when OSA third-partied (remember third party tech?) her and the TD. If that's what happened then, my God Tory can't you see your own failing in this? LETTING OSA do that to you when everyone who was ever in knows about how "third party" works?

    But I'm of a mind to say that the only thing OSA can or could do now is to egg it on further... but to what end? As I said before, nothing has stopped happening. Aug 16 looks to be as ready to go as anything, participation of the OG or critics notwithstanding. There or not - doesn't matter - it still goes on. People are funneling their proofs of harassment at the hands of the cult to the FBI in one big lump even as we speak.

    To illustrate the idea that this Tory Tommy thing - even IF OSA inspired - has zero to do with anything I posted this at enturb...

    For the sake of argument, saying they were behind it all - if this dust up was an OSA operation... so what? Really? It didn't do anything but fill up discussion boards. the rickroll goes on regardless.
  11. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    An unthinking process is just that... It is mechanical... It is limited...

    That applies just as much to Anonymous processes as it applies to Scientology processes... and this statement is supported by Scientology Axioms.

    See what happened to Scientology Ethics processes...

    A mechanical process like Anonymous (no matter how intelligent) when launched against something bad... we celebrate... but when we find that it can be launched just as efficiently against something good... we feel dismayed...

    That is life.

  12. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Silly life...

  13. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    But isnt the irony simply delicious?

    Tory being 3rd partied, a tech she knows and understands...and if she comes out and says anything about "3rd party" SHE IS ACCUSED BY ANON OF USING "THE TECH"!!!!

    No the cake is a lie. There is so much unconscious manipulation of symbolic truth going on here....everyone is doing it and it does not move us towards the real truth.....

    And that is: We all want to be free and happy, but we create the world around us the way it is and dont know how to do it differently, although we are trying.

  14. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    This is so last century :)

    Yes, obvious 'third party', but, what's a nut-cult to do? The 'Tech' says there will be a who, and the goal is to 'get the who'. But, there's also a re-run of the good ole factionalization, just like we got with Bob Minton, and, there will always be disputes about 'tactics' and there will always be self-important 'activist' types who obsess about 'shoulder to shoulder' and 'solidarity' and wannabe 'leader' types to make a nuisance of themselves.

    In the meantime, the 'anonymous culture' *has* the answer to that, and, that's the nameless, faceless 'mob' that gets things done by whatever's passing for 'consensus' , and, with good humor to boot.

    All the drama's about 'individuals'. And, the individuals may fall for the silly 'celebrity' gig, but, anonymous doesn't need it.

  15. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    I would contend that "anonymous" is not mechanical. It may be less than well informed, but it is so random and so alive that it would be hard to contend that it is unthinking or unaware.

    Yes there are reactive elements in it that feed on inaccurate data, but also very aware and perceptive elements that keep that in check.

  16. Escalus

    Escalus Patron Meritorious

    Well that's just it though - "third party" isn't anything discovered by L Ron Hubbard, it was used to great effect in or around July and August of 1914. But if a person recognizes they've been third-partied the thing to do is RECOGNIZE YOU'VE BEEN THIRD PARTIED. But you don't have to say anything to anybody about it.

    You simply recognize it happened, see what they were trying to do, and then toss it into the trash heap, ignored. That's how you make third party tech fail.

    Considering the high level Tory operated at for so long, you would have thought she would see that?
  17. Escalus

    Escalus Patron Meritorious

    Well, as is said.... ^^THIS^^
  18. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm sure that some anonymous poster will pop up and say "look, their blaming it on a "third party", THATS SCIENTOLOGY, THEY ARE TRYING TO USE SCIENTOLOGY ON US"...

    That is the manipulation of symbols...

  19. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    I'll ignore that bridge when we come to it.

  20. Escalus

    Escalus Patron Meritorious

    Well if they do they're just misinformed, though. The term may be coined through Hubbard's shibboleth but the action is as old as the hills... or at least as old as the desire to own somebody else's hill.